Intuitively, the POD(s) is/are too late to divert Hearst too much. OTL the rise of the Bolsheviks might be what cemented him to the right; their defeat here might leave him freer to drift left, but I suspect he was already veering right in response to the moderate, vague and partial progressivism of the Wilson Administration. My guess is that he started out sentimentally a bit leftist as a young man but over the years came to realize his objective interest was not that of the masses, and grew more cynical about his ability to sway the masses against their own best interests. I certainly have not studied the Hearst empire in detail, but I do suspect the trajectory was to produce the prototype of the sort of mentally of say the Saturday Evening Post, projecting a self-image of the American middle class as normative--and threatened. Thus, conservative media do not have to pretend to speak to the best interests of all of a nation--just to the "good people" who not by coincidence are much better off than the poor. Of course such media also are saturated with images of virtuous poor folk as well, who are too proud to take welfare, who staunchly and stoically meet hardship with a combination of frugality and harder work, who remain pious and polite--these paragons of republican (and Republican!) virtue stand in contrast with the dirty, sleazy, dangerous classes of course. If a Hearst publication could persuade some of the actual masses to emulate this image of virtue well and good, but the images exist mainly to orient the target audience of the better off, not to heed the crocodile tears of the self-appointed spokesmen of the working class; the virtuous of America's poor, be they few or many, would not benefit from nor desire socialistic reforms or revolutions; the honest man of the middle class can ignore the screams of protest as they take firm measures in service of order and propriety, because the only poor who deserve their moral consideration are those who understand and approve; the rest must sink or swim as best they can.

If you are taking an opinion poll of readers, mine is that Hearst is a lost cause, destined to be in the opposition to any scheme such as Long's. But this opinion is not based on any study of the man; most of it comes from the movie Citizen Kane to be honest! That, and my reflections on the cultural message of the moderate conservative media message of the 1920s and '30s as I interpret it from scattered observation and my deconstruction of the conservative family values I was raised with.
 
Thanks for the input. As for me, the only concrete element I can find credible source on is his feud with Smith over the 1922 New York gubernatorial election, explaining partly his early support of FDR. My trouble with his character is that by removing FDR from the scene, even though Hearst may begin the 1932 Democratic convention by supporting Garner, the deal Smith and Garner would cut to bar Long from being nominated would potentially push Hearst closer to Long's, out of personal enmity with Smith; in that perspective, Hearst colorful style looks not unlike Long's, and I may be tempted to wonder not the effects upon Long's campaign of Hearst support, but the influence of Long's ideology upon Hearst leanings, especially as he has antecedents of leftism. I'm not looking at this as a possibility of Hearst backing leftist program, but more personally, Long's program.
That said, I'm not overlooking that Hearst was on the road to bankruptcy and that's not something that would change ITTL, nor that he was pretty much politically isolated since he had a bad habit of antagonizing everyone (that's the big reason I read being put forward to explain his failed 1922 run).
 
The British Bomb and the German rockets: ATL Arms Race part 1
Just a quick note on the alternate developments I consider in developments of the atomic bomb and rockets, but in a very general way.


In this TL, I think we'll have the United Kingdom being the first nuclear power, though I must admit that was inspired to me by this thread: Sic Transit Gloria Mundi .

In the context of this TL, we would still get a brain drain due to Nazi persecutions of Jewish scientists. Also, the United States are going through a period of serious troubles along the rise of Huey Long and the coup attempt, and would remain isolationnist to a greater degree than IOTL, while the UK under the leadership of Herbert Samuel would take a more hawkish stance against Germany, keeping Czechoslovakia safe from German predation for the time being, so it will be refuge to much more nuclear physicists who would later go on making the bomb.
The British bomb project would then start in 1939 as a reaction to ATL version of the Einstein-Szilard letter to FDR.

Without control of Czechoslovakia and Norway, the TTL Nazi program would be even more hampered, though they could still be able to develop their local uranium ore sources as East Germany did IOTL; Czechslovakia would probably ban uranium export on British suggestion, and if Belgium doesn't follow suit, its Katanga resources could be bought up, as for heavy water from Norway, but these could be questions of whether Norwegian and Belgian government would be willing to bar German acquisitions of these resources through regular trade.
Plus, judging by the OTL Nazi program, it seems there wasn't much interest in developing an atomic bomb until late, but ITTL, the change could possibly happen even later, at the time German intelligence would eventually acquire knowledge of the British program and bomb, perhaps even a good time after the British tested their first bomb. However, there is the possibility that being more isolated in Europe ITTL (Czechoslovakia standing, Russia still in defensive alliance with France and the UK), it could seek a more radical guarantee.


As I see the British program, we would have the uranium refining and plutonium production facilities in remote locations close to hydroelectrical power sources and supplied by close uranium ore deposits. In my mind, western Canada would be the perfect setting for this part of the project.
As for the tests, a very remote location deep inside the Australian desert would also be perfect and discrete. Refined uranium and plutonium would be sent there across the Pacific Ocean and processed there before testing.
Onet3.jpg


I guess that without the emergency of a war and with more limited funding, it could take up to a full decade to complete, with a working atomic bomb by 1950 at least.
With these very remote locations, a good counter-intelligence work, and a relative lack of interest from the Nazis over this question, I'm confident secret could be kept for long enough to achieve strategical superiority.

Politically and militarily, such a weapon would be justified by the potential decisive advantage it would provide, both in defense and offensive uses, a safety against invasions and a mean to end quickly any war.
The side effect of this TL context is that it would never be used in war conditions, so the doctrine associated with it would be much theoretical, not to say quasi inexistant. Without the experience of WW2 bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not counting other conventional mass destruction bombings such as Dresden or the whole of Japan before the atomic bombings, there wouldn't be much of a taboo on the use of nuclear weapons whose military use would be, even if their existence is revealed, theoretical; the notion of "balance of terror" or MDA could be very late to come, much later than IOTL.



Still, on the strategical plan, Nazis wouldn't be left bereft of an advantage.
With their rocket scientists, most of which ended up propping up US and Soviet programs, Germany would keep the lead in rocketry with von Braun directing the program, notably through the development of IRBMS and ICBMs, though initially limited to either conventional explosive, chemical or biological weapons payloads.
v_2_rocket_mobile_launch_trailer__meillerwagen___by_futurewgworker-d9vbr16.jpg


But contrary to the British secrecy over the atomic bomb, the Nazis would be making much use of the space race for propaganda purposes, with the Germans being the first to set foot on the Moon.
11016839lpw-11017677-article-jpg_4740603_980x426.jpg

(source: newspaper article over alternate history , http://www.lepoint.fr/pop-culture/l...s-incontournables-30-10-2017-2168543_2945.php)
 
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Yikes! I hope the Photoshopped image is not meant to be an ATL photo, but a propaganda portrait of what some dream of!

I had a post in "sic transit gloria mundi," and I stand by it today, except to stress here that I posted it stipulating that author's premise of a successful bomb test by 1936, which I would OOC of that TL denounce as pretty improbable. the TL was based on the premise that this was done, but I would not give it high marks for plausibility. Also I did gloss over the whole question of "what airplane could deliver such a bomb?" which others were stuck on--I believed that if we can grant the Bomb itself, British aviation might be up to the challenge of making something to drop it from in face of the concrete need for it--or as the author suggested, in a dire war emergency, crews might be sent off in the certain knowledge they would not be coming back from a successful mission.

A time frame more similar to US Manhattan Project of OTL would be much more realistic; indeed OTL the British Tube Alloys program would probably have resulted in a working bomb eventually, if not perhaps by 1945.
 
The photo was one I found in an article from Le Point newspaper on alternate history to illustrate a Nazi victory scenario. Here, it's just to illustrate a potential outcome of the Space Race, one I deem rather plausible given German edge in rocketry.

Well, I was a bit conservative in my estimate, taking into account no war, less funding, less people on the project, distances involved (between the facilities in Canada and Australia).
The Manhattan project involved considerable investments in infrastructures and personnel, while I see the British project being much smaller.

The way of delivery wouldn't be a serious concern then; military and political leaders have not been known to be particularly wise on decisions regarding practical considerations, and would stick by traditional delivery means without second thinking about realities of warfare. And as I see it, there won't probably be any war to use the bomb and adjust its doctrine of use and delivery.
Also, the doctrine of use is practically nonexistent, probably based on parallels drawn with other fields. Right here, I would say the tactical use of nukes would be the privileged approach, strategical use being a secondary concern, perhaps. But I don't know enough of pre WW2 British military doctrine to judge where exactly we're going with it.

But back to the rockets, the UK would be a bit behind Germany, but not so far. German progress would be publicized through the space race, prompting an increased interest from Entente powers.
In France, there was already efforts to develop rockets during the 1930s under Robert Esnault-Pelterie and Jean-Jacques Barré, partnering with the government beginning in 1935. Russia had Tsiolkovsky, and Sergei Korolev, though he grew up in Ukraine, could still end up in Russia (due to personal ties). The US have Goddard.
In the British case, I've not found big profile case except for Alwyn Crow, and his research looked rather limited in scope, but we still get Arthur C Clark as an important theoretician then, who was able to imagine the potential uses of space reaching rockets to launch satellites in orbit.
 
Regarding German intelligence, I won't say they will discover the truth, but regarding their OTL performances, they could be well lured in misjudging the advancement of the British program and take much time to get a picture of the whole thing. And they won't be helped by the internal troubles, within the intelligence community, that would follow the purges after the coup attempt resulting from the Czechoslovak crisis (as was proposed IOTL by Beck, but which would fail anyway) and the assassination attempt by Elser, which would give way to an ATL German version of the Moscow Trials and Great Purges.

Officially, the facilities in Canada would be meant to produce aluminium (in coherence with the need for an important power source), and the research, production and testing facilities in Australia could be officially for experimental aeronautics (which happens to use aluminium). Of course, even an aeronautics research facility would draw attention from spies, but provided counter-intelligence and military police do their job correctly, they could keep the deception up long enough.
 
ATL whereabouts of Stalin
Do you remember this guy?
joseph-stalin-1918.jpg


In late August 1918, by the time of the POD, he was at Tsaritsyn, which OTL went to be called Stalingrad, and was defending it against the offensive of Don Cossack atamn Pyotr Krasnov; a book citing the life of the city under Stalin was made of countless counter-revolutionary plots being discovered, once a day at least. There, he also had met his (drinking) buddies Voroshilov and Budyonny who would stay "best friends" even through the Great Purges and WW2.
The OTL battle raged through september and october and Krasnov was eventually repulsed.
https://books.google.fr/books?id=4j...ge&q=tsaritsyn krasnov september 1918&f=false

ITTL, following the disaster of Kazan and the capture/death of Trotsky, we would see Bolshevik positions at Tsaritsyn collapsing, mainly through a collapse in the morale, but my point isn't much about Krasnov's victory here, but about what would happen to our Stalin.
We have two options:
  1. Going north. He can try to rally Moscow and take part in the desperate and frantic efforts put up by Lenin and Vatsetis to defend the road to Moscow. From there, after the capture of Moscow, if he doesn't end up captured, his only way out would be through Petrograd and the Baltic countries, and then, possibly onto Germany, where we could see him eventually playing a role in agitating his German comrades and in the subsequent German civil war of 1920 (Spartacist uprising and Bavarian Soviet republic doesn't happening, keeping communists' strength intact when happens the Kapp putsch in 1920, giving way to general strikes and red uprisings, including a greater scale Ruhr uprising).
  2. Going south. The opportunist he is could sense the defeat is unavoidable and decides to escape while he can, catches a boat and goes to Iran, where he takes part in the Jangali movement (which IOTL gave way to a Soviet Republic of Gilan) as in post 12.
In both ways, I think I'm going to have him executed in the end by the regime, be it the Iranians or the Germans (or even the French if he is caught fighting their probable intervention in the Ruhr). I could of course have him escape once again and agitate for some revolution elsewhere, but I feel it would be trying too much his luck.
There is also the third option where he dies at Tsaritsyn while defending the town, but I felt the character deserved a last "coup d'éclat".

Which option do you prefer?
And if you have another idea, don't hesitate to propose.
 
Social (societal) liberalism with a SR Russia
There is two big OTL acts by the Soviets that I would think still happen ITTL with significant cultural and social impact, much more than IOTL because of Russia avoiding secluding itself from the world.
That is decriminalization of homosexuality and legalization of abortion.
Though both were eventually rolled back by Stalin in the mid 30s, it was one of the most social liberal acts of the period, considering Russia then was the first state to legalize abortion.
Legalization of abortion was made out of a public health concern, to regulate and control these, and decriminalization of homosexuality arose out of the abolition of the previous Tsarist legal code, not unlike during the establishment of French penal codes of 1791 and 1810 that similarly were established as complete overhaul, erasing of the previous regime's laws (in French case, it was the Ancien Régime, and in Russia, the Tsarist regime).

I don't think we're going any further advances, given the relative conservatism of Russian people then, not to mention their high degree of illiteracy (which would make the educational reform a major point of the SR agenda through the 1920s and 1930s, as happened IOTL with the Soviets under Anatoly Lunacharsky's guidance), but the question is about whether it would or not be rolled back.

There was already some raising concerns over this issue at the time, though it's not very known today.
If there is a major figure to cite, it's Magnus Hirschfeld, a German jewish doctor and sexologist (and also a gay), who was very active in advocacy of LGBT rights, establishing the Scientific-Humanitarian Committee in 1897 (the first LGBT rights advocacy group in history), pushing for repeal of Paragraph 175, and lobbying the SPD with some degree of success, almost making it in 1930 as the repeal was on its way to be voted before the fall of Herman Müller's cabinet stopped it in its tracks. He was famous in the realm of sexology to the point of being known as "the Einstein of Sex".
220px-Magnus_Hirschfeld_1929.jpg
nl010188_48d21e2f7c.jpg

In Russia, the topic had recently made a remarked entry into litterature with Mikhail Kuzmin's novel "Wings", and one of the founders of the Constitutional-Democratic Party (Kadets), Vladimir D Nabokov (the father of Lolita's author) had made a paper in favor of gay rights; on that last point, though I have not found yet a proper source, it looks coherent for a father whose one son was gay: Sergey Nabokov, brother of the famous author, was homosexual and eventually died in Nazi concentration camps.
What I notice is that there was at least sympathy over this cause across the Russian left, to the point that Georgy Chicherin, whose homosexuality was not a secret, was foreign minister for the USSR from 1918 to 1930, even having Stalin's trust, or even with regard Eisenstein's privileged status.
So, I would say that we could plausibly have this societal liberalism staying this way through the 1930s without the Stalinian reaction.
The consequences are potentially very big, as IOTL, the reaction happening during the 30s delayed any further advance on LGBT civil rights for at least 40 years.
Here, there is big potential for the largest single advance in LGBT civil rights since the French revolution first decriminalization of homosexuality.
As Russia would still be part of the world, its culture as a whole would potentially more echo through the western hemisphere; though that would be more about socialist themes, and tolerance of homosexuality a minor one, it would still be there.

Again, as I said, I don't expect big progress, but more realistically a continued tolerance as a consequence.
The most significant change I would see though would be Magnus Hirschfeld moving the seat of his Institut für Sexualwissenschaft (Institute of Sexology, founded in 1919 in Berlin) to Russia after the Nazis take power (sensing the danger, Hirschfeld had already left Germany in 1930 before settling in France by 1933 IOTL).
Aside of that, I've not fully explored the topic of early 20th century LGBT civil rights movement, but if you have any suggestion, don't hesitate.




To return to the topic of education, I'm looking into the possible model of educational system to be established in a SR Russia.
I have still yet to look into the Soviet reforms and the SR program to see if the SRs would follow the same path as OTL Soviets, though I already retain the point of a multilingual education adaptated to each nationalities of the Federal Democratic Republic of Russia as enacted by Lunacharsky IOTL. Otherwise, there could be incentive to copy the French model owing to French cultural influence.
Regarding tolerance, it would be important to "enlighten minds". For instance IOTL, the literacy rate was barely 29 points in 1897, even suffered a drop during the civil war, before rising up to only 57 points in 1926 and 75 in 1937.
%E2%80%98Ploughman_works._Teacher_works._Children_work._%E2%80%93_Labour_is_a_good_cause%E2%80%99.jpg
420px-LikbezCheboksary.jpg

However, there were many problems IOTL that would stay true ITTL: funding, trained teachers and educators, outreach in rural areas.
However, unlike Stalin's OTL disengagement from pro literacy policies, I expect we would see them continued ITTL. Also, I would tend to think that with the Socialist-Revolutionaries being less ideological fanatics (at least for the right wing, the one that would have won the civil war, as the left wing that allied with the Bolsheviks would be out of the game), they would not seek to politicize education at such a degree the Communists did, but how and how far would they want to do?
 
You know, I had not realized you were making Russia exclusively under the Right Wing SRs; I thought the lefties would still be in circulation.

For one thing although they did join the Bolsheviks in November '17, they felt betrayed quite quickly and turned against them, in so doing they were of course purged from the Bolshevik regime, I have little doubt sentenced to severe punishments frequently as extreme as death--they were after all deemed traitors--and actively opposed the Bolshevik government, which ought to go far toward some reconciliation. They would be weak and mistrusted, but I don't think their influence should totally disappear. Not as a probable sequence of events--though that depends on their numbers, for if they were few enough a little bit of eradication would go a long way toward erasing them--and not as what I think would have been a good thing to happen. But that latter is just my opinion; frankly I don't understand SR ideology all that well.

Heck, I was under the impression that Bolsheviks, as individuals and as a weak, suspected movement, were able to eventually pop up again in Russian society and eventually some of them maybe in government, as a grudgingly tolerated dissenting fringe. It would depend on how obnoxious they made themselves I suppose.

As for Stalin my personal preference is to forget about him, but I would have to admit if anyone is going to pop up as a survivor again it he'd surely be a prime candidate for survival, somehow somewhere, allied with someone. Someone who might well regret it in their dying moments!
 
I only intend for Stalin to die, executed at the end of an ill advised last action either in Iran or Germany by government forces, just kind of the last shootout in a western.

On the righ-left wings divide within the SRs, I tend to think the rubicon was crossed after the dissolution of the Constituent Assembly which was akin to a coup; the November revolution was seemingly not a problem for them as it got rid of an "inefficient and discredited bourgeois government" and that the constituent assembly opened the occasion for renewal of power.

I still have to dig into the ideological/political distinctions, but from what political concepts I could gather from my search into the American left, my view on the SRs is that, from an originally revolutionary socialism doctrine at the eve of the 20th century, their right wing started to drift towards the center and went from revolutionary-socialism to democratic-socialism, which caused the left-right rift we know. The outbreak of the civil war would finalize the break, as by the time of the victory, it would be time for the victorious right SRs to settle scores and affirm whose vision is going to rule the country. Eventually, that would cause the official SR party to oscillate between democratic-socialism and social democracy as it deprived itself of its main anchor on the left and would gravitate some times towards the center, but not all the way as you'll find the Kadets occupying the liberal to moderate conservative spectrum.
Still, I don't think the left SRs will disappear alltogether. In a country that would still allow political parties de jure, though de facto the SR party has a monopoly onto power (again, my primary example is PRI ruled Mexico), the left SRs would have the chance to fill in the vacuum left by the Bolsheviks within the electorate, all while under a new name.
 
Race to Mars ?
To follow the previous post on Arms Race between Germany and the UK, I have said the Germans would be probably the first to reach the Moon ITTL, owing to their technical edge in rocketry science. Now, I'm thinking of a round 2, even it will be probably very far into this TL, Mars.

640270370-marslanding_6.jpg


Within the confrontational logic of Free World vs Fascist Bloc, I would see the UK (still "leader of the free world" in absence of ww2 to break US isolationist tradition), refusing to concede the space race and bid higher with Mars as a prize.
By the time the Nazi set foot on the Moon, I think the British and the Commonwealth behind them would have caught up their lateness, owing to superior industrial, financial and scientific sectors. We could see the Moon Nazi landing being followed by the British Prime Minister making a statement comparable to the Kennedy OTL Moon speech in terms of ambition, to mark the probable shock over the German feat. Also, it's not impossible we get the British-Commonwealth project being supported by French and Russians within the cadre of the old Entente alliance, to make a united front on this question and share costs.

Also, I admit I'd like very much to be explored by humans before the end of the 20th century ITTL, for lack of current progress on that matter.
 
1926 : Clemenceau in America
I saw through Clemenceau's bio and its ATL developments.
As I already put it in post 26 (link), Clemenceau having regained interest in politics due to the German civil war, he lets his name be put forwards in the presidential election that followed Deschanel's OTL and TTL resignation and wins in a sort of revenge over Briand.
Being not an iddle man, he would be active and interventionist, making more use of the constitutional powers of the presidency that had fallen into disrepair over tradition of parlamentarian supremacy. IOTL, presidents who attempted to weigh in the government affairs faced heavy backlash from the parliament and were compelled to resign such as MacMahon(1879), Grévy (1887), Casimir-Perrier(1895) and IOTL Millerand (1924). However when we come to Clemenceau's case, there is a distinction to be made.
The precedents of Grévy and Casimir-Perrier weren't exactly relevant. Grévy was pushed out as he was embroiled in a scandal, and his meddling into government affairs only came as an attempt to hold on to the end, quitting as he was unable to get anyone accepting to form a government (at one point, he was so desperate he even called on Clemenceau who refused). Casimir-Perrier was reluctant to become a figurehead and resigned as soon as he figured it out impossible to weigh in the government affairs, barely 7 months into his term. By comparison, Deschanel was compelled to quit by the rumours on his mental health, but as I read it, he was in a similar state of mind as Casimir-Perrier's with depression over his perceived incapacity at doing anything (a form of castration anxiety).
The only relevant examples when it comes to forceful, active or even proactive intervention in public affairs, was that of MacMahon and Millerand. Their way was only doomed from the moment they came into confrontation with a parliamentarian majority that was opposite of their way and as they were left bereft of supporters in it.
By contrast to all these examples, Clemenceau has had 50 years of parliamentarian experiences and though he didn't lack enemies or rivals, he had unlike MacMahon and Millerand enough allies across the spectrum to play the kingmaker of parliamentarian coalition from center-left to center-right; it doesn't do away with probable backlash against his interventionism due to both traditions and the enemies/rivals of Clemenceau (Poincaré on the right, Briand on the left), but the fractured nature of 3rd republic parliamentarian political alliances and the experience of Clemenceau is enough to navigate through these eventual difficulties. There is also not to forget the immense political capital and popularity of Clemenceau after the Great War.
So, aside of an expected parliamentarian backlash following the elections of 1924 and the victory of the Lefts Cartel, which would end with the Cartel demise over its incapacity to deal with the economical crisis (which IOTL brought back the right under Poincaré in charge), Clemenceau would be pretty much active in the government business. The limit is that, as a lifelong legalist and experienced parliamentarian, Clemenceau would be able to respect limits and foresee where to back down (such as in 1924/1925).
former-french-prime-minister-georges-clemenceau-leaving-lincoln-dc-picture-id657566100



So, to come to Clemenceau's visit to the United States, we have to look into the economical difficulties that hit France around this time.
France, left with a huge wartime debt, was pressured by the Coolidge administration to pay back. However, French capacity at repaying the debt was very much tied to the German war reparation which Germany was either unable or unwilling to meet. While the UK got favorable terms over the repayment of its debt to the USA by getting it tied to French repaying its British owned debts and German reparations, the US refused to give such lenient terms to France. IOTL, it eventually compelled France to accept the Mellon-Berenger agreement over debt repayment, but the deal was so unpopular that France delayed ratificiations for three years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellon–Berenger_Agreement
IOTL, Clemenceau while on retirement, felt compelled to write an open letter to Coolidge to plead for a more lenient agreement, citing the major destructions of the war having taken place on French soil, but Coolidge flatly ignored it, pointing at Clemenceau's private citizen status.

My idea is that, Clemenceau being President of the French Republic ITTL, carrying both the weight of his status as head of state and his immense fame on the international scene, the way of the negotiations would be very different. I think that a state visit would be possible and perhaps necessary for the French to extract a better deal. IOTL, Clemenceau actually did a tour in the United States for conferences in 1922, enjoying a triumphant welcome from the American people, so the state visit has an OTL precedent, not to speak of Clemenceau having already lived in the US from 1865 to 1869, witnessing the aftermath of the civil war and the Reconstruction firsthand, working as a correspondant for French newspapers and teaching French, even meeting his wife here (though they would later divorce).
I think it may also be possible, owing to Clemenceau's standing, that he be invited to speak before a joint session of the Congress (IOTL, the first foreign dignitary to speak in front of the Congress was the French ambassador in 1934). Is that plausible?
 
I think it may also be possible, owing to Clemenceau's standing, that he be invited to speak before a joint session of the Congress (IOTL, the first foreign dignitary to speak in front of the Congress was the French ambassador in 1934). Is that plausible?
Yes, if he is French President.
 
But would he be capable of influencing Coolidge and the Congress into accepting a more lenient deal such as the one the British got?
 
OTL, the stock of France was rather high in US culture. A lot US military culture including uniform styles (those goofy peaked hats that fold flat for instance) and even military doctrine paid close attention to the French model. It makes sense to me--we bourgeois revolutionary populist Republics ought to stick together, combined with the high culture cachet of France that has always offset English speakers' contempt or pretenses--for my money the admiration outweighed the professions of scandal, if not in Britain, than anyway in the USA. Combine that with the bond of allegiance in the Great War, that American volunteers overseas before US entry into the war chose to serve in French units...Admittedly the Republicans of the 20s were the party of Normalcy and favored, and were favored by, the isolationists and America Firsters who regretted the Great War experience but I think what animosity directed against foreigners for in their view manipulating us into joining went against the British.

So then I suppose Clemenceau's charm might be decided by how associated he was with the OTL sordidness of postwar French policy, the perception of highhandedness against Germans and so forth, the ruthless pursuit of vengeance at Versailles...that did not go down well in America and the USA, via Republican revolt against Wilson, rejected Versailles and eventually negotiated a separate peace with Germany and I suppose the successor states to Austria-Hungary, along with rejecting participation in the League of Nations.

Now I am forgetting just how divergent Europe and the USA became from OTL in the late Teens and early 1920's; IIRC the USA does not deviate strongly until the mid and later '20s. Was France more directly affected and/or butterflied in the immediate postwar years by the different situation in Russia? Which itself waits until that crucial battle where you have Trotsky caught and the Red Army starts to unravel; is everything else up to that date pretty much as OTL?

Clemenceau coming back to French politics in an active role is a divergence from OTL I believe, and one much in the generic spirit of your TL, a series of victories for the moderate left basically. France has a dark side in American perception although I don't know how seriously blotted the French image was over here by Poincare's reactionary priorities. If Clemenceau's return to prominence is seen as a repudiation of all the sleazy stuff the Right was associated with, then representing France officially he has all the debts to call in any French representative could have; he is the face of the good and glorious France Americans admired and had fought for and did not blame for snookering us into the quagmire of world affairs.

I guess what I am saying is, if anyone can do it, Clemenceau can. The question is unsettled whether anyone can. He is up against the flint-hard "Silent Cal" Coolidge and IIRC he succeeds a Warren Harding who did not conveniently die and had to be primaried out in Coolidge's favor, which means he has stuff to prove he did not OTL. It is a question of whether cutting France some slack is a winner or loser politically in America. My guess is, Americans are not too anxious about being paid back particularly fast and are more worried (businessmen especially) about keeping Europe solvent and stable. At any rate, we were certainly generous, as creditors go anyway, with the German debt. I believe in the 1920s Germany developed an actually positive image in America, German culture, notably in cinema, wowed us, and perhaps there was simply the hope that the Germans having learned their lesson would turn out to be fine fellows in a peaceful and prosperous future; certainly they had certain aspects of futurism more or less cornered, between Zeppelins, avante garde art, and general German technical proficiency. I do not believe though that developing a soft spot for Germany implied a cold turn against France at all. So, people who would be willing to cut the Germans slack would be reasonable with the French as well. I am not aware of any Gallophobic faction--again, if Americans wanted to get cranky about devilishly clever and slimy European powers, they'd point the finger at Britain first; if they wanted to rant against brutal colonialism, they would talk about India or Africa--but not the French ruled parts of Africa. The French Foreign Legion was the stuff of romance after all. Americans I think tended to cut the French extra slack precisely because of the traditional opposition of Britain against France. This might change in postwar years though I believe the romantic view of France as the sleek and sexy matron of nations remains, despite the worst vandalism of the vulgarist American right of recent decades, to this day, and endured even Charles de Gaulle's take on the Fifth Republic. Certainly romantic sorrow over the plight of France in the second war OTL, and the desire to perceive as much Gallic heroism against the Nazis as we could, persisted despite all the betrayals and failures of the Third Republic's final generation, and Francophila endures despite the perception of French proneness to Communism in the postwar years. (Naturally the star of France shines brighter for the American Left than Right! But the trope is, Americans are suckers for French charm no matter what their stances are).

So, if you ask me, I don't see why the Americans are going to take a hard line, certainly less so if it is admirable Clemenceau doing the asking. Especially if he can wash his hands, even hypocritically, of the worst of the post war mess and comes on as a solution to those problems rather than their author. I forget how associated he was with "Germany shall pay" OTL, quite a lot I think, but being out of power when the dark deeds were done he can now distance himself if it suits him maybe. Perhaps someone will find it rather galling for the French to asking leniency of Americans while being the cruel master of the Germans at the same time; maybe Coolidge, after some pretense of resistance, will indicate how the Golden Rule applies and that American attitudes on Wall Street will mirror French attitudes in Paris toward Germany.

And let's not forget something else--I believe despite the formation of the Federal Reserve Board under Wilson, American finance is still quite laxly controlled; perhaps Clemenceau misunderstands just how much or rather how little the President of the United States has to say about policies shaped in board rooms on Wall Street. Mind, it is not time totally wasted; the government certainly has more to say that would have a generation before; the specific contracts in question did relate to US foreign policy and the Federal government has some unusual degree of entanglement in them; Wall Street does look to the Republican President, as leader of the party whose previous chief, the disgraced Harding, did say "The Business of America is Business." Charming Coolidge may be necessary but not sufficient; Clemenceau and other French envoys must be persuasive in New York as well as in Washington. But if Coolidge is convinced the deal is sound, that will carry some weight among the men whose decision it actually is. I hope Clemenceau either understands this necessary but not sufficient hitch before he comes to America, or that he is intelligent and flexible enough in his old age to pick up on it quickly and know what he is dealing with before he does proceed to Manhattan. If America has a rival to Paris, it is the Big Apple, not Washington DC--which John Kennedy characterized as a city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency. Washington's day will come--or did OTL with FDR's brand of national chauvinist centralism; as a world city DC is a late post WWII bloomer. I do believe the Lincoln Memorial was just about done by this time, though maybe the 20s were when it got started actually. But DC as we know it today is a product of the New Deal and WWII.

Which brings us back to the main line of this TL; whether Huey Long can have a similar effect, or whether the USA will remain governmentally less centralized and thus Washington something of a backwater. A lot depends on how much bureaucracy the ATL social democracy fosters, as well as whether it can carry off the nationalist fusion of national identity FDR did.

But for now, simply recall all of that is in the future, for any possible future. Clemenceau must go to Washington first, but the deal will be sealed, if it is, in New York.
 
Clemenceau was very much a regalian stateman and if he admired the United States, one recurrent critic he had and expressed about the debt issue IOTL was that Americans were too much into 'banker mentality' without regard of the state of France's distress over the damages it suffered at German hands.
But in matters of foreign policy, Clemenceau has been consistently a pragmatic and a moderate.
When it came to the treaty of Versailles, he defended a moderate line against the extreme positions wanted by Poincaré and Foch (and this moderation would turn Foch into an archenemy of Clemenceau).
But Clemenceau's primary concern was to secure guarantees against any future German agression. In one instance, when asked by American journalists during the controversy surrounding the debt question why France didn't cut into military budget to get money to repay the debt, Clemenceau replied that France needed to retain a strong army to protect itself against any resurgent threat from Germany and that only when it could secure strong guarantees would it cut into the army size. IOTL, as he was still in charge, Clemenceau tried to get such guarantees from the Americans, but their reluctance to committ to binding alliances made it a dead letter, and that left France with few other choice but to either go hardline (the Poincaré line) or drop enforcing Versailles all together (the Briand line).

Now, Russia is still an ally of France and the UK, an alliance which could be strengthened with a new treaty reaffirming the Triple Entente following the final victory of SRs; though they would have a delegation at Versailles, their recent takeover and the still unachieved pacification of remnants of warlording armies would leave them without much influence over the talks. So, the French may be brought to consider more lenient reparations conditions on Germany, but the burden of reconstruction in the devastated regions of northern France and the debts incurred from American and British loans would not make the need of German reparations to repay the debt gone.
Indeed as you said, continental Europe will see strong deviations much earlier. And if the 1923-1925 occupation of the Ruhr and the damages it did to France international standing could be avoided for the reasons I cited above, there would be an early occupation around 1920 within the context of the German Civil War (no spartacist uprising and Bavarian soviet republic in 1919 keeping radical forces intact for an uprising in 1920 in reaction to the Lüttwitz-Kapp putsch, trigerring a three side civil war between moderate government, nationalists and communists), with the Entente eventually stepping in to prop up the moderate government. Politically, without the negative outcome of their intervention in Russia in 1919, the British and the French are more willing to use military force to restore order in Germany; Czechoslovak and Polish interventions are also possible, though in Polish case, it would be probably to secure Upper Silesia (the OTL referendum of self-determination was manipulated by Germany to control the region, leaving Poland with a reduced piece of it, so ITTL, the Polish part would be larger).

Anyway, I think that Clemenceau was one of the most knowledgeable French leaders of his time about how the United States, and the Anglo-saxon world in general, worked and was perfectly bilingual. He actually lived there in New England between 1865 and 1869 and married an American woman (who he eventually divorced).
Actually, as I don't know how and where maritime passenger travel happened at the time, I don't know where Clemenceau would land. Washington is not an ocean port, so I don't know at which port he should arrive. One close to Washington DC would be needed, and I can think of Baltimore, but if you say a visit to New York could be needed, maybe he could go here, but I'm unsure of the implications in terms of protocole, something Clemenceau was adamant to respect (for instance, during his OTL 1920-1921 travel to India, he refrained from meeting Gandhi out of respect for his British host, even though the anticolonialist Clemenceau was and the Mahatma would have had much to speak about).



As for centralization, it will certainly happen. Even if the Farmer-Labor and Socialist elements of Long's new party wouldn't intend it, the centralization through expansion of the federal government is pretty much an unavoidable consequence of the welfare agenda they intend to implement. Plus, there would the ideological dislike of Wall Street and financial circles.
But as it comes to Huey Long himself and the populist southern Democrats of his brand, that centralization would be probably intended as a way of furthering their own political influence using the federal government as a vehicle, especially in the Deep South where it would be used to harass the conservative Democratic political machines opposed to Long.

Speaking of the Deep South and the federal government, it would worth to mention that to the contrary of FDR taking the region's votes for granted and directing instead federal investment in the regions of which the Democrats sought to secure the voters loyalties, such as on the West Coast, I see Long directing much more federal money to the South than IOTL to secure loyalties and dismantle the Democratic party hold of the region to replace with his own, even though I think that with conservatism remaining a relevant force after almost a century of supremacy, that would lead ultimately result in creating a real two party system across the Deep South instead of a monolithic Republican or Democratic bastion. The fallout of Long policies in the South on political and socio-economical matters would make it unrecognizable by today standards I think.
 
Ideas on long term result of Long's era political realignment ?
There is two possible courses, a new two party system, or instead a three party system.

In the first scenario, the Progressives eventually shift back towards the center by a classical centrization trend, while the Republican and Democratic parties eventually merge to be the party of the right.

In the second scenario, the Progressive stay well anchored on the far left, between social-democracy and populist roots, while the Republicans and the Democrats are unable to stay in alliance due to divergences on the platform. In that case, I think that the Republicans may return to be the centrist liberal party while the Democrats occupy the right, conservative, end of the political spectrum.
My thinking is that here, the walkout of Long democrats and Long's populist appeal would undercut liberal and moderate Democrats, leaving the conservative wing dominant, even though it gets itself under siege in its southern bastions by Long supporters. At the same time, the Republican have not yet turned into an outright post Reagan conservative party, with the old guard of Hiram Johnson and William Borah (both too much distrustful of Long's "shameless" populism to leave the GOP) or the new one of Thomas Dewey and Alfred Landon on the ascendent during the 1940s, and probably the first faction to win the White House after Long's "retirement"; my reasoning here is kind of "Long radicalism was good to get out of the crisis, now we need moderation and Dewey/Landon are the right guys for that, but getting backwards as the conservative candidates of the Democrat propose is out of question".
At one point, I think the liberal wing of the Democratic party, one I could call the Kennedy Democrats by convenience (that family is still well positionned to take the succession of Al Smith in the region), would become so alienated by the conservatives that it would cross over to the moderate Republicans, while similarly, a bunch of conservative Republicans would cross over to the Democrats, and not necessarily in that order.
Eventually, in the post civil rights era, the Democrats would become very impregnated by christian conservatism, so that by late 20th century, the three party system could be described in such simplistic stereotypes (with today referrences as examples): Democrats are christian conservatives (Pence kind), Republicans are the centrists (Clinton/Obama kind), the Progressives kind of populist pseudo-socialists (Bernie Sanders kind with a heavy Trump influence).

Obviously, I put more thoughts into the second scenario, but to enrich my thinking on the first and keep open the perspectives, I'd like to hear your ideas.
 
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Huey Long and the Dominican Republic in 1937
I just came over an episode of Santo Domingo history I didn't know of, the Parsley Massacre of 1937, and in 1938, an ethnic cleansing effort launched by local dictator Rafael Trujillo against local ethnic Haitians living in the border regions, with estimates of the death toll between 15,000 and 35,000.
I come to speak of these massacres because in the context of the TL, it may be the first occasion for Huey Long to flex his muscles on foreign policy into his first year.
Since the ripples of the TL aren't going to significantly impact the Americas except for underlying trends, I presume the events in Haiti and the Dominican Republic will unfold similarily to OTL. But while IOTL, we got FDR in charge by 1937, here we got Huey Long.
In his stance on foreign policy, Huey Long was known to oppose US imperialism on ground of its subserviance to corporate interests. Still, I think he might be enticed to intervene in the island.
Ideologically, Trujillo is pretty much likely to become a bête noire for Huey Long, as Trujillo's OTL anticommunist stance and its equivalent may drive him closer to American conservatives, especially in regard of Trujillo's racial views. Politically, removing Trujillo may serve the purpose for Long to make a show of force at home against the far right and especially his conservative Democrat and corporate opponents, while appeasing his northern farmer-labor and progressive allies by relieving the Haitian people threatened by the ethnic cleansing, a way of affirming an implicit friendly stance on civil rights (by proxy of the Haitians) while keeping from doing anything concrete in this sense at home to preserve his popularity in the Deep South. In that context, the humanitarian pretext for an intervention would be very convenient, even if to replace a dictator with another more sympathetic to Huey Long's views.

Is that possible or event plausible?
 
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Well, a couple issues:

1) political stability of an overall national 3 party system assuming that no dominant coalition of the three parties decides they'd better go over to proportional representation and continue First Past the Post victories. It is generally assumed that FPTP puts very strong pressure on the electorate to collapse to a two party system, because people don't want to "waste their vote." Indeed I could go off on my usual pro-PR hobbyhorse rants and start listing all the reasons I think FPTP is primitive and bad inherently, the fundamental issue being I believe everyone needs positive representation and not virtual representation--in a pure 2 party system, nearly half the population is stuck with the latter, and even small third party presence means that over half of it is. But assume for the moment that FPTP stays by inertia. That being the case, there can still be third parties as the British experience with Parliament indicates, but there too, despite the absence of a separate strong Presidency to tip the balance harder, two parties always dominate. Now the armchair reasoning usually omits to consider the possibility of a scissors-paper-rock situation whereby in particular regions, the races do boil down to two parties but the mix of dominant two varies. I don't just mean by large geographic region--South versus Midwest versus Northeast versus Great Basin inland west versus Pacific Coast--but subregions--big urban areas within each geographic one versus countryside, stuff like that. With your three parties, we could have lefty dominant regions, extreme ones that are safe seats for Progressives, more competitive ones where it is Prog versus Republican with the Democrats squeezed into a lunatic fringe; some supermoderate Republican safe seat zones, onward to more conservative-moderate zones where it is a revolving door between Republicans and Democrats and the Progressives look on from the sidelines as the regional outcasts, on to Democratic safe seats. And maybe conditions might even exist where certain regions are highly polarized battlegrounds between closely balanced Progressives versus Democrats and the Republican appeal to "moderation" is contemptuously rejected by both sides of the split electorate as dead armadillos in the middle of the road. Thus each party has its strongholds, flanked by regions where they tend to win more often than not but are in serious competition, and regions that shift all over the spectrum, the outcome being a roughly even split of each party getting about a third of House and Senate and each around a third of the states at any given time--I daresay that would fluctuate dramatically with periods where any of the three plummet to a nadir of 15-25 percent holdouts in strongholds while the other two ride higher.

I like to think that eventually the logic of going over to PR would prevail as current high rollers contemplate how they might be plunged down to third place or even destroyed in some foreseeable future circumstance and resolve that in the future, all their votes have to count for a fair share of the legislatures or they could be wiped out completely. If the majorities of two dominant parties soberly fear that, and the electorate is persuaded (as I think they ought to be by sweet logic) they are best off with PR, getting 3/4 of the states to get an amendment mandating it for state legislatures and the national vote for Congress (and yes, I have a rather complicated scheme to get it for Senate as well, in a distorted form giving each state an equal weight regardless of population, but the citizens of all states weighing in collectively on each election--or anyway the roughly 2/3 of states involved in a given Senate "class" election).

Given PR I suppose as far as sheer electoral political mechanics goes, a three party system might be sustained forever, though more likely second tier small parties would then splinter off the Big Three along with upstart challengers from outside them completely--these would batten on to a major section of the vote and reduce the Big Three to averages well below 33 percent, say 20 or so, from which they almost never fluctuate to over 50 and coalition legislatures become the norm.

After all the FPTP/Two Party OTL American system relies on there being one party that holds a majority, giving its self-selected leadership official positions as the leading parliamentary office holders, and defining specified roles for "the" Minority party--in the US Congress third party members are so rare they can be disregarded if they won't simply caucus with one major party or the other. With three parties surviving despite FPTP, we'd need to rethink how Congress is organized--it makes no sense to call one party "the majority" when it only holds say 42 percent of the seats with the others split between the other two; no "majority" would exist without two parties caucusing with each other--or Members turning maverick and forming shifting coalitions of individuals as they see fit, party discipline be damned. Some new system would have to develop amounting to proportional power sharing, in terms of who names who gets to sit on which committees, who runs each committee, and so forth. Thus if PR were adopted to determine membership the body would be prepared by experience for major fragmentation. Probably it would not reach OTL Brazilian levels, but it might well resemble the situation in Germany or France.

2)--deeper socio-economic-political dynamics would I suspect transform the very terms of debate and undermine the position of OTL conservatives and pro-capitalist "moderates" fatally. To avoid this, you have to assume that Long's high flown schemes for radical economic transformation are defeated and he is reduced to being a New Dealer type technocrat. If the Progressives can ever agree upon and push through something resembling Share Our Wealth, the deep foundations of society are going to be completely rebuilt on a new plan. As with PR I say goody, but your dilemma here is that if you decide to preempt that with conservative business as usual only slightly moderated by rescindable welfare programs, then you've pretty much neutered Huey Long!

Let's say for a moment that SOW actually comes about in some form. Its foundation is a draconian wealth tax, which liquidates the existence of the OTL plutocracy as a class. As proposed he was arguing for total and immediate confiscatin of all fortunes over a certain cut line; I expect to be implemented this would be converted to a more graduated wealth tax, with an exemption floor of some millions of dollars and after that a steeply rising percentage of outstanding wealth in excess of that that in effect sets a ceiling since at some level it would be impossible to earn enough each year to pay the wealth tax; fortunes would be whittled down to a rather narrow range between the floor and this practical upper limit, and the very rich subject to this tax would, in terms of the total fraction of national wealth owned or the scale of separation between their curtailed average and that of the nation, much reduced, so that the various forms of power that automatically fall into the hands of wealth owners would be weakened versus the average citizen. Then, the vast transfers of money leveraged by this wealth tax are redistributed mostly in the form of a national minimum income for all--it would not be too wasteful to simply give a fixed sum to everyone regardless of means since the rich getting a small fraction of what was taken from them back would have small numbers. With this guaranteed income, workers are in a far stronger bargaining position, but employers are also freed of any moral obligation to their workers; they can offer wages as low as they like, and workers who take such an offer are agreeing to be paid little more than national income. Since the latter is probably adequate to provide for everyone's basic needs, the basic consumer goods market is very stable. There is now no way for single owners, or groups of very few, to control large corporations; the only way to gather large amounts of capital would be to form very large coalitions of small shareholders. Syndicalists would be in a good position to organize worker-owned enterprises.

The dynamic of wages would thus be radically changed, and so would be the economic cycle.

Still mindless booms and busts might happen. However a Progressive party that accomplished such a tremendous coup would have very great political legitimacy; neither Democrat nor Republican could claim any credit for this vast social revolution. Should the market fall upon hard times, with the moderate sized fortunes of small owners being blighted and the sources of national income payout drying up, in the crisis will voters meekly shake their heads and conclude the great experiment was doomed to fail just as the conservatives warned, or will they rather double down and refuse to see their incomes dried up and themselves thrown back on the mercy of a handful of oligarchs as they were before? When the nature of the crisis probably is yet another failure of mindless market mechanisms to provide an even keel of activity? Would they not be willing to listen to Progressives who suggest that by intelligent intervention in the market, by guided investment, the levels can be restored? Meanwhile, if worker-owned firms are a substantial sector, might not their dynamics prove rather different in such a crisis than capitalist owned ones? I assume that there would be a spectrum of ownership patterns, but in case of a global or national capitalist crisis, the profit-dependent capitalist owned firms would be the ones facing dwindling assets, between the devil of the SOW tax collector and the deep blue sea of market based profits receding and drying up their revenues, and they can be expected to panic as usual and start shutting down operations to stop losses. But worker owned firms have no self-interest in such shutdowns, and part of their own operating revenues are a net inward subsidy via the national income payouts. If politically the majority of voters can insist the national payouts hold without cutbacks, or minimal ones, causing a net deficit, the worker owned firms can continue operations, keeping production going despite the tendency of a crash; the laid off former workers of capitalist firms still have their incomes to purchase essential goods and maintain demand; market share shifts to the most syndicalist firms and away from the most for-profit operations, and overall material production has an inherent brake on the rate of collapse versus more laissez faire low tax nations overseas. Americans as private consumers can still afford to buy imports and the prices of these are likely to have crashed down, meaning smaller outlays can purchase the same consumer goods and same industrial inputs at a lower price. Wealth flows into the USA at the expense of the private enterprise dominated overseas competition; American firms continue to offer goods for sale, perhaps at reduced price but the American firms can take considerable hits in revenue and remain operational, especially if everyone takes a lax attitude toward credit. The American system looks good compared to the examples of the old regime on display overseas and the political option of imitating American ways will gain stock in European democracies and perhaps in such third world nations that are formally independent such as Latin America.

If in fact state intervention can stabilize the crisis in view of these strange American peculiarities, the stock of the left, indeed to the Left of the Progressives, will begin to rise. Beyond the Progressive party, or comprising a rising left wing of it, or pulling the center of mass of that party leftward, the notion that the national government should simply nationalize the means of production and vest control in worker's councils of the various firms who agree to be guided by a coordinating structure comprised of their own delegates advised by economic experts hired by the national government will gain credibility. This is democratic socialism, pure and simple. On the right of course will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and very possibly bold, even violent, action to preempt and discredit such actions. But if SOW is in place, figures acting like that will stand out as sore losers, bad actors, dangerous radicals, and society will close ranks on them forcing them, with threat of prison, exile or execution for treason, to cease and desist and get with the program. The credibility of the Democrats will implode if the leftists can pull the nation through and demonstrate that there are methods other than the blind play of market forces to deliver a prosperous and reliable economy.

And the Republicans? What can they do but either panic, appalled, and join forces with the desperate conservatives before it is too late, or get on the "me, too!" bandwagon and try to limit the degree to which the popular shift to democratic intervention in the economy is institutionalized, advocating for retention of differential money incentives as somehow vital to the Republic? They must go left or get out, or of course maybe they succeed in sabotaging the economy and blaming the left for it.

The Progressives of course might include numerous members who fear socialism goes too far and are just as queasy or worse about democratic production for use as the old line Democrats and Republicans are. Perhaps the party moves left, perhaps they find themselves becoming the centrists as wildcat Socialists of various kinds steal one constituency after another from them. Perhaps regions that were once hardline conservative leapfrog past Longist "soak the rich" rhetoric when it is transformed into "Seize the means of production and produce for all!"

I suppose it might take more than one economic cycle to work such a deep change on America.

Now everything I have said was premised on Long implementing SOW, which is a long shot of course. Let us say that the Progressives accomplish many things but never manage such a radical change as that, and we have basically a New Deal sort of economy with high income taxes on the rich (on paper) and extensive government layouts for various itemized programs, many of which go to the middling sorts or even back to major corporations as corporate welfare, so the poor are getting rather little although what they do get often makes a tremendous difference to them. Now we hit a crisis--is it slam dunk foreordained that conservatism and austerity must prevail, or might not the less well off democratic masses say wait a minute, we need this, and we were promised a lot more, and this mess is not our doing, and we held off and did not soak the rich, and now look where they have brought us and tell us we are to blame for it too! Might not the strength of the progressive party enable democratic majorities of the less well off to seize control and take whatever measures seem expedient to them--again if they have intellectuals with a well thought out plan of how to make the most of it they can perhaps pull off a coup of successful management.

Each time they do that, they undermine the argument of pro-capitalists who say that no one can better themselves at the expense of the primary priority of capitalist prosperity first. The leftward shifting I compressed into one cycle might really take three or four, but get there eventually.

Or of course you can say that no democracy anywhere in the world has ever gone so far as to seriously curtail the basic rights of private wealth and all must fail to do so, but in that case the left is pretty well doomed to failure and collapse eventually as they have no credible leverage on the political process, "nowhere to go." In that case the existence of the Progressives as a radical party is an aberration based on people believing in promises that can never in the nature of things be fulfilled and either the Progressives evolve rightward to be the party of responsible light tinkering with the superstructural machinery, forcing the Republicans rightward (with some migration, more progressive Republicans finding it easier to join the nominal Progressives as they back off from radicalism, more bitterly conservative Republicans migrating to the Democrats) and possibly squeezing them out as the Democrats gradually recover ground with the vindication of their hard line on property raising them up.

Being optimistic as I am that given the opportunity, technocratic tinkering with economic variables under the aegis of a very populist leftist regime that is not too mesmerized by the sacredness of property to undertake massive redistributive taxes, set practical ceilings on wealth, and manipulate the redistribution of wealth with the intention of achieving superior performance on democratic and egalitarian terms, the mechanisms of private competition will prove more and more superfluous and pointless, I would expect that if the Progressives can go so far as to institute SOW on a scale that supplies a livable basic income and strongly checks the maximum size of fortunes, within a half a century or less the system will evolve into straightforward socialism and from there toward moneyless communism. Obviously partisan dynamics, assuming this evolution happens in the context of a democratic government with freedom to form partisan factions as an assumed part of the system, would therefore be shifting ever leftward with positions once considered progressive becoming first moderate and then conservative and eventually hard extremist reactionary; yesterday's conservatives must always be either moderating their views or if they cannot keep being dragged leftward start kicking and screaming and eventually either drop out of effective politics or be criminalized, since they will have little to no traction electorally and can only justify their extremism with a perception of violence being called for. My hope would be that these cases would be few or none.

I have trouble envisioning having it just sort of hover frozen in amber. If progressives cannot justify their encroachments on the powers and privileges of private property, propertarians will sooner or later find leverage to take them back again, and seek to discredit the radicals thoroughly.
 
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