What if the Weimar Republic still existed and had never been destroyed by the nazis

[NomadicSky]

No third reich maybe Germany could have been better conditions at the end of the first world war
It might have the same borders that it did at the end of the war but not to pay the war Reparations that it did, German land would be enough
and maybe German Austria might be allowed to unite with Germany early in the Weimar Republic

 

[MerryPrankster]

Allowing Austria to unite with Germany would cause a huge influx of Catholic and Socialist voters, which would drive German politics to the left for years to come.

Think of it as an electoral Trojan Horse.

 

[zoomar]

Nice map. If Weimar had survived past 1933 and not become too revisionist or fascist it's not unreasonable to imagine the Versailles ban on anschluss would have been rescinded as it really made a lot of sense from the "national self determination" perspective. Also, it is reasonable to imagine that other limitations on German rearmament might have been lessened by western allies to help buttress Germany as a bulwark against Bolshevism.

I wonder about continued survival of the Baltic republics, however. It's hard to imagine Stalin staying still too long. Also, given the extent to which the Weimar military secretly worked with the Soviets it's possible Germany could have still ended up with something on the order of the Nazi-Soviet pact. The end result might still be a European War, but perhaps one with Germany continuing it's alliance with the USSR. Who knows.

 

[zoomar]

Allowing Austria to unite with Germany would cause a huge influx of Catholic and Socialist voters, which would drive German politics to the left for years to come.

Think of it as an electoral Trojan Horse.

Catholic, yes. Socialist? I seem to remember that Austria essentially elected its own home-grown fascists before Hitler came in. Also, in Germany, I thought the socialist hotbed was Berlin while Catholic Bavaria was rightist and socialist.

 

[jgack]

Well, without a militant Nazi Germany the whole series of events that was the turbulent 20th Century becomes unraveled. Without the conquest of France and Holland and the dangerous situation Britain faced I don't believe Japan would have even tried an invasion, although, assuming they still get cut off after Nanking it is believable that they would fight the Soviets to get the resources of Siberia, but I can't believe they would try to fight an undistracted France, Britain and Netherlands at the same time, especially when the U.S. could come in at any time. But that's just my opinion.
So, we have a possible Soviet/Japanese war in the early 40s and maybe Poland and some of the other Eastern European countries (ie Finland, Bulgaria, Rumania, Czechslovakia and maybe Turkey) allying with Japan against the Communists. Hell, maybe if it becomes an anti-communist alliance the Chinese Nationalists and Japan will stop fighting long enough to ally against the real enemy. Anyway, if that's all that happens that would probably leave the post war world pretty much like the pre-war world. The two most powerful nations will be U.S. and Britain. Maybe Germany will get back on its feat because of selling weapons to the anticommunists much like the U.S. probably would. That would mean any future conflicts would be between three power bases: the U.S. and it's allies, Japan and it's allies and Britain and it's allies.

 

[Leo Caesius]

Catholic, yes. Socialist? I seem to remember that Austria essentially elected its own home-grown fascists before Hitler came in. Also, in Germany, I thought the socialist hotbed was Berlin while Catholic Bavaria was rightist and socialist.

True, but Bavaria had some pretty active socialist movements as well. Remember the Bayerische Räterepublik.

 

[Paul Spring]

Wasn't there some kind of Socialist uprising in Vienna around 1930? The conservative government crushed this uprising, but as a consequence of this the Austrian socialists, who would normally have been fiercely opposed to being incorporated into the Third Reich, wouldn't support the Austrian government against Nazi Germany because they hated their own government as much as they hated the Nazis.

 

[Faeelin]

Hmm. I wonder how European integration would progress. I think Locarno and such could lawy the groundwork for such a union, especially (ironically) in the Depression, but I'm not sure.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Catholic, yes. Socialist? I seem to remember that Austria essentially elected its own home-grown fascists before Hitler came in. Also, in Germany, I thought the socialist hotbed was Berlin while Catholic Bavaria was rightist and socialist.

The city of Vienna itself had a lot of socialists--Austria was described as having an uber-Catholic countryside with a socialist capital.

 

[Nicole]

Of course, you'll have to deal with the reasons the Nazis were so popular in the first place. I would say the big two are:
- Depression caused by Reparations
- German-inhabited lands coming under Poland (The Polish Corridor) and Czechoslovakia (The Sudentenland tried to join German-Austria, but was taken over by the Czechoslovaks anyway. This becomes even more imporant if German-Austria becomes part of Germany.

 

[Susano]

Well, I dont think you can say Bavaria was left just because of the socialist revolution there. After WW1 big parts of Germany went, well, nucking futs, regardless of political affiliation
Nah, by voting recrods, Bavaria was conservative.

And by then the proetstant/catholic divide really was no factor anymroe, at least not in politcis. Sure, there was the Zentrum, but the Kulturkampf was over a generation ago...
Pretty few would have opposed reunifcation with Austria.

As for teh World Depression - actualyl Europe and Germany were prety much past this when the Nazis came to pwoer. One of historys crueler ironies... also, Germany itself was gaining prestige and standing in foreign politcis again. Sure, teh Sudetenland and the Eastern Territories were still a problem, but not necessarily something to start a war over...

 

[Johnestauffer]

Germany would still be smarting from the impositions at the end of WW-1. No matter who was in charge they would look outside their borders to advance their ecconony.
Too many countries still had visions of grandeur. There were a lot of potential hot spots around the world in the unhappy colonies. At best we would have a different version of the cold war. We might also see a lot of regional conflicts.
If weapons costs weren't as high as they were in the 80's, the cold war might not have died out from excessive military expenditures.
At some point though, everything would probably unravel and major war would break out

 

[Faeelin]

Of course, you'll have to deal with the reasons the Nazis were so popular in the first place. I would say the big two are:
- Depression caused by Reparations
- German-inhabited lands coming under Poland (The Polish Corridor) and Czechoslovakia (The Sudentenland tried to join German-Austria, but was taken over by the Czechoslovaks anyway. This becomes even more imporant if German-Austria becomes part of Germany.

These could all easily be resolved absent a war. Given how readily the west agreed to what Hitler wanted, a democratic socialist state would have no problem.

 

[Norman]

These could all easily be resolved absent a war. Given how readily the west agreed to what Hitler wanted, a democratic socialist state would have no problem.

I agree, eventually there would have been some resolution, if only because there was some justice to the German position. Eventually there would have been a partition forced on Poland and Czecheslovakia

 

[Nicole]

I agree, eventually there would have been some resolution, if only because there was some justice to the German position. Eventually there would have been a partition forced on Poland and Czecheslovakia

Since we've already said that the League of Nations, who exactly is going to force the partition? We're talking a war here...

 

[Norman]

Since we've already said that the League of Nations, who exactly is going to force the partition? We're talking a war here...

Maybe, maybe not. Remember we are lookiing at a situation in which German Fascism either does not exist or does not take the same form. Perhaps what happens is that Poland and Czechosolvakia become increasingly threatened from the East, and in order to gain German and / or Western support, allow the areas in question to have a plebicite on the question.

 

[FederationX]

Would the Soviet Union take advantage in Europe if Germany was a somewhat democratic nation?

 

[hans]

Possible Pacific War

Second World War in this scenario could be limited @ Pacific Wars Japan vs Holland, Uk and Usa .
An other possible scenario Russia vs Finland, Baltic Republics , Romania and Poland ( in adding possible Norway and Sweden supporting Finland).

 

[FederationX]

If the UK and France are still allied with Poland, even without Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union might think twice before attacking, although know knows.

Would the rest of Eastern Europe turn into dictatorships without Germany as an example?

 

[Norman]

Second World War in this scenario could be limited @ Pacific Wars Japan vs Holland, Uk and Usa .
An other possible scenario Russia vs Finland, Baltic Republics , Romania and Poland ( in adding possible Norway and Sweden supporting Finland).

I like this, but what if Japan determines not to attack the US and the Pacific War is primarily between Japan vs. UK and Netherlands somewhere in the 1935-40 time period?

To me this makes sense and without the UK having to fight a European War, it will not be stretched as thin as in OTL.

With the attention of the UK in the Pacific, the Soviets begin to encrouch on Eastern Europe.

The UK might then agree to allow Germany to begin to re-arm because of the two reasons: first, to build ships for the Netherlands (at the requests of the Netherlands), and second, because it seeks a counter weight in Eastern Europe against the Soviet presence.

The rearmament process combined with supplying the Netherlands improves the German economy enough so that everybody is making money, and the rise of fascism stops. {In TTL Adolph Hitler succumbs to his meglomania and is shot by one of his own followers for insulting the man's Polish wife.}