What if the Mongols Attacked Central Europe an Kings & Generals Alternate History

[jeckl]

Everyone rooting for the europeans it seems

Because the Mongols are pretty evil in general and the europeans are defending themselves.

Well Im hoping the mongols beat the coalition, its a scenario about them after all and I do wanna see them reaching the Atlantic

Do what Alexander never could

See the "end of the world" from sea to sea

Could happen, this is the same people who had nifgard win.

Especially with how the "Tatar Yoke", while more complicated than what traditional perspectives on Russian history say about it, heavily affected Russian political and cultural development and all that, with the traditional centers of Kiev/Kyiv and Novgorod, centers of East Slavic culture in the days of the Kievan/Kyivan Rus, replaced by Moscow as the center of Russian civilization.

I have also heard a theory that if affected China.

I think this could push Christianity down a more militant path and Europe could be more xenophobic.

It could push the centre more to France.

Either Europe will fall into a civil war over papal succession, or they will have a peaceful conclave, maybe establishing it in Avignon. Either way I think the Church will be more subservient to the crown, maybe for ever, but at least for a time.

And it would probably affect Central Europe too. It would lead to significant early attempts to engage in colonization in an attempt to escape those who are trying to flee from the waves of Mongol horde rampages that are too impossible to stop beyond the west of the Rhine.

I think the crusader states sill exist at this point so they could see an influx of people.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

Because the Mongols are pretty evil in general and the europeans are defending themselves.



Could happen, this is the same people who had nifgard win.



I have also heard a theory that if affected China.

I think this could push Christianity down a more militant path and Europe could be more xenophobic.

It could push the centre more to France.

Either Europe will fall into a civil war over papal succession, or they will have a peaceful conclave, maybe establishing it in Avignon. Either way I think the Church will be more subservient to the crown, maybe for ever, but at least for a time.


I think the crusader states sill exist at this point so they could see an influx of people.

With the way things are going for the Mongols, the Crusader States might just be the last bastion of Christendom plus maybe England and the Iberian Penisula.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

ahahah Frederick sidling up to the Mongols happened in Empty America as well

In 1240, Emperor Frederick II sounds the trumpets for the defense of Europe. However, the clarion call is a mistake on his part - it signals that he is not going to be leading the effort himself. Rumors (begun by a letter circulated by the Bishop of Ferrara) begin to swirl that Imperial messengers have been seen in the company of the Mongol armies and that Frederick has invited the Mongols into Europe to destroy Christianity.

Meanwhile, Frederick's lieutenant, Ezzelino da Romano and the bulk of the Imperial army is marching to the rescue of their Emperor. But the Guelphs, knowing that they can seal Frederick's doom if they can just buy Kadan enough time, engage Ezzelino's forces at every turn. The towns around Rome, which flocked to Frederick's standard when he was within a whisker of entering the Eternal City, now defect and join in the attack upon the Imperial forces. Ezzelino's advance turns into a slugging match down the peninsula. The Lombards and their allies cannot stop him, but they succeed in slowing his progress.

That is enough. Kadan's built-on-the-spot trebuchets are battering the walls of Castle Fighine, and the Mongol sappers, under the cover by the deadly-accurate fire of Kadan's archers, are undermining its foundations. It is only a matter of time, now. With great solemnity, the commanders of Frederick's bodyguard, renew their vows to die in defense if his person. As the hour of reckoning approaches, the Emperor does what he does best - he temporizes. Under a flag of truce, a messenger makes his way to Kadan's tent to parley. Kadan will talk, but, knowing that Ezzelino is still marching, he refuses to cease his assault.

In the end ...

Emperor Frederick Hohenstaufen, who once styled himself second only to Christ in authority on Earth, steps into the felt tent of a nomad warrior, careful not to step on the wooden threshold. He approaches the Mongol warrior prince and takes the cup, pledging his loyalty to the Great Khan Ogedei. Lifting the chalice of kumiz to his lips, his eyes look over the rim and lock on Kadan's.

Frederick the Second is no man's vassal.

And he is far from finished with this fight [FN19.031].

With a Mongol army at his back, the former Emperor of the Romans Frederick II, captive or lawful vassal of Batu Khan, depending upon who you ask, stands outside the gates of Nuremberg and demands its surrender. Many Nurembergers are more than willing to comply - to their mind, the Emperor's capitulation offers them an honorable way to avoid annihilation - but the ministeriale who commands the Imperial fortress, and the Zollern Count who controls the castle, have different ideas. So, in the darkness of night, the townspeople assault the troops holding the gates and overwhelm them. Christian murders Christian through the morning hours as the Imperial troops struggle to retake the lynchpin of the city's defense from the citizens as well as numerous mutineers from their own ranks who have gone over out of fear of the Mongols or loyalty to Frederick. In the early morning light, the Mongols - who were not alerted to the burghers' plans so were somewhat taken off guard - manage to make it into the city through the contested gates and join the general melee. The Imperials disengage themselves and retreat in fairly good order to their fortress, while the townspeople surrender their city to their Emperor. Nuremberg is spared destruction, but when the fortress is taken, the entire garrison and everyone who has taken refuge inside are executed as rebels against their lawful lords, Frederick of Hohenstaufen and Batu Khan.

And, of course, he betrays them as well

Outside the walls of Milan, Frederick of Hohenstaufen paces his tent like a caged tiger. This could be his moment. He has been playing the role of loyal stooge to the Tatar conquerors for the better part of a decade, assiduously learning all there was to know about the Tatar armies and quietly renewing the loyalty of the German nobility. And now, he is on his own ground, as commander of the German infantry besieging Milan. He has canvassed his officers, and they are with him. All he needs is the right moment ...

Kuyuk, informed by the phenomenally-effective Mongol scouts of Ezzelino's advance, exults. Most commanders in his situation - potentially caught between the hammer of the Crusader forces and the anvil of Milan - would not be particularly pleased. But Kuyuk was. As interested as he was in as playing with the mastodons, a siege does not really get his blood pumping like an open battle. Within moments he has a plan and within hours, the Mongol cavalry has disengaged from its positions around Milan and is riding southeast towards Lodi. He leaves the siege in the hands of Frederick, his trusted subordinate. Well, almost trusted. He leaves a jagun of Mongol heavies (about 100) to keep an eye on him.

As soon as Kuyuk is out of sight, Frederick jumps. On his signal, his familiars murder his Tatar keepers. The rest of the jagun is taken care of by German knights. Immediately, fighting breaks out between the Germans and the Hungarians, who intend to remain true to their salt. Della Torre and the Milanese, watch all of this from the city walls with fascination. And finally, when the Hungarians are subdued, Frederick orders all of his men to start sewing cloth patches to their shoulders. Frederick the Crusader is back in business. When it is all done, he mounts a white stallion and trots in front of the city walls, well within bowshot of the defenders. "Men of free Milan!" he roars, "The Tatar horde that has beset you has been overthrown!" There is much commotion from within the city walls. "Join us! Join us in God's Crusade against the heathen!" Much more commotion on the city walls. Della Torre is a believer, but some of his underlings are not. This could be an elaborate ruse to get them to open the gates.

Frederick turns to an aide. "They need convincing. Convince them." Thump-thump go the trebuchets. Clunk-clunk go a dozen or so severed Tatar heads as they land on the streets of Milan. That makes della Torre a believer. He knows enough about the Tatars to know that they would not suffer the mutilation of their dead, even if it would buy them access to Milan. The gates are flung open and in march the Germans, to general jubilation. Ancient enemies embrace.

What's up with this, anyway, was Frederick II just a Francis I type character who was conniving and power-hungry enough to entreat with heathen invaders? Was he just beset by enough troubles from his fellow Europeans to make working with the unthinkable a plausible possibility? What's the basis of characterizing the Holy Roman Emperor himself as a turncoat?

 

[Aluma]

In the video it was mentioned he was continuously screwed over and over again by the Papacy and his allies so I get it that the guy wants revenge

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Hilariously enough, in EA, Frederick II fiddles in Rome for a new Pope under his thumb, while the Empire burns.

In August, while Batu is resting his soldiers and horses east of the Danube, Pope Gregory IX dies and the Emperor is on the outskirts of Rome. The College of Cardinals is assembled to select a successor. The elderly Cardinals are assembled in a ruined Roman palace, where they are held under Imperial guard and suffering in the heat [FN17.06]. Eventually, they wind up electing Celestine IV, who dies a couple of weeks later either before, or shortly after, being formally invested. The Cardinals, who fled to Anagi as soon as they were free to go, refuse to reassemble. The Emperor still holds captive two cardinals that the Genoans captured at sea after the battle of Giglio, but that won't get him a legitimate Pope, which is what he needs. The Emperor promises to return to Germany once a new Pope is elected. He is rapidly squandering the good will he has earned in Germany by his broad concessions to his princes and his magnetic personality. The Emperor is widely perceived as leaving the Empire at the mercy of the invaders.

While the Emperor schemes to elect a Pope who will do his bidding, the Mongols are systematically depopulating areas of Hungary. They promise the peasantry protection if they bring the harvest in, then reneg and slaughter them once they have the food in hand. By some estimates, half of the population of Hungary dies during the Mongol invasion.

The summer passes without further Mongol advance, and Europe is lulled into a false sense of security. Papal legates again have their priorities mixed up, and tell would-be crusaders to stay home until they can be called out against the Emperor. Bishops and princes assembled for the crusade against the Mongols disperse, but not before divvying up amongst themselves the money collected to pay the crusading soldiers.

[FN17.06] One of the more charming details of this farce is that the soldiers use the partially crumbled roof of the palace as a urinal. An English cardinal is said to have died of the heat and fumes.

Which, apparently, is more or less what happened in OTL, except in this one Ogedei does not die so the Mongols continue their advance.

I guess it's believable that between feuding with the Pope, and unable to count on the loyalty of his own German princes, Frederick II will stop at nothing, even collaborating with the Mongols, to stay on top.

Oh I missed this bit, too

The destruction of Vienna and the advance of Subedei and Batu have (finally!) lit a fire under Emperor Frederick II, who has moved from his winter quarters in Apulia to the outskirts of Rome in the hopes of forcing a quick papal election. With the Mongols loose in Germany is concerned that, in his absence, the German princes will defect from their fealty to the House of Staufen and oust him as Emperor and his son, Conrad, as King of Germany. So he gathers his faithful Saracen bodyguard and prepares to make a dash for Germany, planning to secure the fidelity of his subjects then return to Italy and his wars against the Lombard League. He is still convinced that the Mongol invasion is but a gigantic raid and that the Mongols do not have the power to conduct a sustained attack against the numerous fortified places of the Empire. His Italian wars, waged primarily with troops from Sicily and Naples, have involved but a little of the military might of Germany, which he confidently believes will be able to crush the Mongols.

Frederick is not unaware that Kadan has entered Lombardy, and he dispatches messengers to locate the Mongol column. He has an offer to make - if Kadan will turn his might against the Lombard League, all the plunder of those rich cities will be his. Kadan receives the message with amusement. This fantastically arrogant 'Emperor' still thinks he is in a position to bargain and thinks he can grant the Mongols something they cannot just take any time it pleases them. Kadan has the messengers killed. He is moving fast, but Kadan will not risk the emissaries returning and reporting his position to Frederick.

 

[jeckl]

With the way things are going for the Mongols, the Crusader States might just be the last bastion of Christendom plus maybe England and the Iberian Penisula.

I don't think the Mongols will destroy christianity any more than they destroyed islam in Iran. The Papacy might be damaged/destroyed, but the religion will likely endure.

@Aluma

In the video it was mentioned he was continuously screwed over and over again by the Papacy and his allies so I get it that the guy wants revenge

It says he does this to save his people by submitting to the mongols. I don't know if he knew the mongols would sack Rome and kill the Pope (which was really, really dumb I think, at least is should be a bad decision for them).

Given the focus on him trying to help people I think his people will revolt and kill him, ironic.

 

[Alpha-King98760]

I don't think the Mongols will destroy christianity any more than they destroyed islam in Iran. The Papacy might be damaged/destroyed, but the religion will likely endure.

Let me restruct that then; England, Scotland, Ireland, Iberia, Scandinavia might be the last bastions of a Europe free from Mongol rule.

 

[jeckl]

Let me restruct that then; England, Scotland, Ireland, Iberia, Scandinavia might be the last bastions of a Europe free from Mongol rule.

Possibly, but at this point only Italy and Germany have been attacked so I don't think the Cheese eating surrender monkeys should be written off just yet. (also Denmark)