I feel like we're all forgetting one very important thing. Henry isn't likely going to be the one arranging Elizabeth's marriage. Mary's, yes, but Elizabeth is only thirteen if Henry dies as OTL, which means she probably won't be married yet. And I don't see the Lord Protector Somerset entertaining a Catholic marriage for the King's bastard sister. Edward, he might have to swallow the horror for, for the sake of a foreign match, but not Elizabeth. Which means Denmark or Sweden, or if they won't take a bastard, an English//Scottish noble. The Earl of Arran, perhaps?
What if Henry VIII's children by his first three wives had had children/gotten married?
- Thread starter noturaveragejoe0316
- Start date
I know if I had to choose, I'd go with Philip of Neuburg and Eric of Sweden, but that's just me. The alternative matches are much more probable, I'd readily admit. But Philip and Eric make much more interesting husbands, in my mind. But I find the Oldenburgs incredibly boring compared to the Swedish monarchs, so I'm biased, lol.
Denmark may be reluctant to consider a match with Elizabeth (although OTL Frederick II did apparently try his hand at being a suitor for Elizabeth) but Sweden should have no such scruples. Not only is Eric eager to marry Elizabeth specifically, but the Vasas in-general should be eager to increase the standing of their dynasty (which is what a marriage to Elizabeth would accomplish). Looking at some of the matches made by Gustav I's children OTL, a marriage to Elizabeth would be a great match in comparison. One of Gustav's daughters married in East Frisia of all places, and another in Baden; not exactly impressive matches.
Eric was also willing to marry his mistress OTL, so if anything, a marriage to Elizabeth would be an improvement, status-wise.
that is true. He would be a good option, but it is true that Erik wasn't exactly picky about his wife. And he did want to marry Elizabeth iotl (of course, she was the queen, but I imagine 2nd in line at the time of her marriage is still better than nothing)
Henry VIII, King of England, (b. 1491, d. 1547), married Katherine of Aragon (A) in 1509, divorced 1533, married Anne Boleyn (B) 1533, divorced 1536, married Jane Seymour (C) 1536, died 1537, married Anne of Kleves 1540, annulled 1540, married Katherine Howard 1540, died 1542, married Katherine Parr 1543, his death 1547:
1a) Mary, b. 1516, married Philip of Palatinate (b.1503) in 1540
1b) Elizabeth, b. 1533, married Erik XIV of Sweden (b. 1533) in 1551
1c) Edward VI, King of England, b. 1537, married Joanna of Spain (b. 1535), in 1554
Hope I did this okay. It's my first time doing it and I couldn't find an example beforehand
the only reason Edward's marriage to Joanna is so early is because I figured his regents would want him to get started quickly on producing an heir, but it can be later since he'd only be 16 in 1554. I'm also still undecided on Joanna or Jane Grey, but since Joanna is actually a princess, she's more likely
1a) Mary, b. 1516, married Philip of Palatinate (b.1503) in 1540
1b) Elizabeth, b. 1533, married Erik XIV of Sweden (b. 1533) in 1551
1c) Edward VI, King of England, b. 1537, married Joanna of Spain (b. 1535), in 1554
Hope I did this okay. It's my first time doing it and I couldn't find an example beforehand
the only reason Edward's marriage to Joanna is so early is because I figured his regents would want him to get started quickly on producing an heir, but it can be later since he'd only be 16 in 1554. I'm also still undecided on Joanna or Jane Grey, but since Joanna is actually a princess, she's more likelyHenry VIII, King of England, (b. 1491, d. 1547), married Katherine of Aragon (A) in 1509, divorced 1533, married Anne Boleyn (B) 1533, divorced 1536, married Jane Seymour (C) 1536, died 1537, married Anne of Kleves 1540, annulled 1540, married Katherine Howard 1540, died 1542, married Katherine Parr 1543, his death 1547:
1a) Mary, b. 1516, married Philip of Palatinate (b.1503, d. 1548) in 1540:
1aa) Catherine, b.1542
1ab) Henry, Duke of Palatinate-Neuberg, b. 1545
1ac) Mary, b. 1546
1b) Elizabeth, b. 1533, married Erik XIV of Sweden (b. 1533) in 1551
1c) Edward VI, King of England, b. 1537, married Joanna of Spain (b. 1535), in 1554
updated to 1548, at least. iotl, Philip died in 1548, I don't think Mary could change that. It also allows her to be a regent for her young son, but I'm wondering if she should or even could get remarried, maybe now to Luis of Portugal. Knowing how much Mary seemed to love children, I doubt she'd immediately abandon her children, all under the age of 7, for a new husband right away
1a) Mary, b. 1516, married Philip of Palatinate (b.1503, d. 1548) in 1540:
1aa) Catherine, b.1542
1ab) Henry, Duke of Palatinate-Neuberg, b. 1545
1ac) Mary, b. 1546
1b) Elizabeth, b. 1533, married Erik XIV of Sweden (b. 1533) in 1551
1c) Edward VI, King of England, b. 1537, married Joanna of Spain (b. 1535), in 1554
updated to 1548, at least. iotl, Philip died in 1548, I don't think Mary could change that. It also allows her to be a regent for her young son, but I'm wondering if she should or even could get remarried, maybe now to Luis of Portugal. Knowing how much Mary seemed to love children, I doubt she'd immediately abandon her children, all under the age of 7, for a new husband right away
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Which one? The aunt or the niece?
The aunt is 14 years older than Edward and the niece 16 years younger.
I think Edward is unlikely to wait the niece to come to age. He may marry the aunt but I am unsure he would want a wife that older than him.
no. Henry would really like it if Edward could marry Mary, Queen of Scots, not Jane Grey. That'd be the cousin he gets [Mary], not Jane. There was never any talk about Jane until Dudley came onto the scene and it was clear Edward was dying (which Dudley actually exacerbated*).
*Dudley dosed Edward with arsenic, believing that it would make the end "swifter", but unfortunately, in prolonged doses and when the body builds up a tolerance, arsenic actually acts as a preservative
Philipp of Bavaria? There was no stinginess involved. As mentioned, Philipp was basically willing to sign on the dotted line with whatever contract Henry shoved his way, so long as he'd get English support for his bid for the imperial throne. Henry refused to move on that, and Mary refused to budge on the matter of religion, so it went nowhere.is it possible for Henry to be less stingy about Mary marrying Philip? (I know, it's Henry, but maybe he can be placated
it's a really bad idea to go with either, because not only do you piss the one off you didn't side with, but marrying Elizabeth to Frederik II and Mary to Philipp is tantamount to England declaring war on the Holy Roman Empire (ICR which year Karl V finally acknowledged Christian III/Frederik II as king of Denmark rather than his nieces, but I don't think it was before the 1550s). Granted, Sweden is kinda in a better place than Denmark, but it's the weaker of the two states at the time, and AFAIK, Henry VIII never acknowledged the Vasas. Now, I admit that Karl V was pretty much at war with everybody, but this is a surefire way to blow up any bridges with the Habsburgs that England has.Elizabeth can marry Erik of Sweden or Frederick of Denmark, which I'm also still undecided on
Actually, until Elizabeth became queen herself, that was all that anyone was considering for her. Here's a list of Liz's suitors up to 1560. With the exception of Tom Seymour, Dudley, Denmark, Sweden and the random Baden prince thrown in, all Catholic. Even the ones under Somerset and Dudley
I think the idea would be that Henry would be dead by the time Elizabeth marries (or is betrothed), and thus it would be Edward('s regency council) arranging the marriage in the early 1550s. At least, that seems like the most likely avenue for a Scandinavian marriage, if one materializes.
yeah that was my thought. Henry can arrange marriages all he want, but the only one he can see through himself is Mary's
Of those, I think good options would be the Earl of Arran or Edward Courtenay. I've already made a marriage for Mary to Philip of Palatinate-Neuberg, but he dies in 1548 so she's open for marriage again (although now she's 32)
I agree that that's more likely. He's now probably going to marry Karl V's daughter, Joanna since she's a foreign princess and close to his age. It keeps an alliance with the Habsburgs as well
yeah, she'll probably marry an english noble now. Probably Edward Courtenay (it looks like he was a fellow member of the ginger club, which means more ginger tudor babies
Henry VIII, King of England, (b. 1491, d. 1547), married Katherine of Aragon (A) in 1509, divorced 1533, married Anne Boleyn (B) 1533, divorced 1536, married Jane Seymour (C) 1536, died 1537, married Anne of Kleves 1540, annulled 1540, married Katherine Howard 1540, died 1542, married Katherine Parr 1543, his death 1547:
1a) Mary, b. 1516, married Philip of Palatinate (b.1503, d. 1548) in 1540:
1aa) Catherine, b.1542
1ab) Henry, Duke of Palatinate-Neuberg, b. 1545
1ac) Mary, b. 1546
1b) Elizabeth, b. 1533, married Edward Courtenay (b. 1526) in 1551
1ba) Anne Courtenay, b. 1554
1bb) Edward Courtenay, b. 1556
1bc) Elizabeth Courtenay, b. 1558
1bd) Catherine Courtenay, b. 1561
1c) Edward VI, King of England, b. 1537, married Joanna of Spain (b. 1535), in 1554:
1ca) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales, b. 1556
1cb) Jane Tudor, b. 1558
1cc) Isabella Tudor, b. 1561
1cd) Edward Tudor, b. 1562, d. 1563
1ce) Charles Tudor, b.1565
1a) Mary, b. 1516, married Philip of Palatinate (b.1503, d. 1548) in 1540:
1aa) Catherine, b.1542
1ab) Henry, Duke of Palatinate-Neuberg, b. 1545
1ac) Mary, b. 1546
1b) Elizabeth, b. 1533, married Edward Courtenay (b. 1526) in 1551
1ba) Anne Courtenay, b. 1554
1bb) Edward Courtenay, b. 1556
1bc) Elizabeth Courtenay, b. 1558
1bd) Catherine Courtenay, b. 1561
1c) Edward VI, King of England, b. 1537, married Joanna of Spain (b. 1535), in 1554:
1ca) Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales, b. 1556
1cb) Jane Tudor, b. 1558
1cc) Isabella Tudor, b. 1561
1cd) Edward Tudor, b. 1562, d. 1563
1ce) Charles Tudor, b.1565
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who should Joao Manuel marry since I had Joanna of Spain marry Edward VI? (Assuming he lives past 16)
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Henry will never give Mary to Reginald Pole - there relationship collapsed pretty thoroughly in the late 20s and early 30s over the Boleyn marriage - and Pole fled abroad where his continued public opposition to the King was largely responsible for the arrest of the rest of his family in England and his mother and brother's executions.