Source?
Curious more than skeptical.
Georgie Porgie: Why would New England become a breakaway? New England secessionism is grossly exaggerated.
War of 1812 - American defeat?
- Thread starter General Mosh
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Source?
Curious more than skeptical.
Georgie Porgie: Why would New England become a breakaway? New England secessionism is grossly exaggerated.
It is a war that is gaining more airtime these days.
With an arrogant and almost whimsical Prince Regent it is possible he may have 'adopted' this war as his own and once the Napoleonic wars were over committed much more British war effort to it (imagine whipping those colonist his father had failed to subdue, all it takes is the right whisper in his ear from a lacky). Whilst I doubt a British victory would 'reclaim' the colonies, it may give the native Indians a homeland free of American adventurer's, Canada would certainly be a lot more dominant in North American affairs. As for the British Empire I doubt the outcome would have made much change, it was after all regarded as a sideshow, the only real difference maybe a much more self assured and stronger Canada and a much more hostile America.
With an arrogant and almost whimsical Prince Regent it is possible he may have 'adopted' this war as his own and once the Napoleonic wars were over committed much more British war effort to it (imagine whipping those colonist his father had failed to subdue, all it takes is the right whisper in his ear from a lacky). Whilst I doubt a British victory would 'reclaim' the colonies, it may give the native Indians a homeland free of American adventurer's, Canada would certainly be a lot more dominant in North American affairs. As for the British Empire I doubt the outcome would have made much change, it was after all regarded as a sideshow, the only real difference maybe a much more self assured and stronger Canada and a much more hostile America.
It's from a letter in the appendix of "Incredible War of 1812" I'll dig out the info when I get home.
It would have to be a British protectorate. In which case they would have to worry about orderly Canadian settlement taking their land off them instead.
Yeah, but Britain protecting it is going to be easier said than done. Nothing harder to dislodge than a swarm of settlers.
You don't take the parts with them already in would be my advice.
Beyond that anybody illegally entering can be shoved off the land by the British Army or left to the tender mercies of the natives, although that of course could cause PR issues.
But that (underlined) is the thing. Britain doesn't exactly have a large standing army that's sitting around waiting for something to do. And sending a few regiments might not be enough - whereas sending more is a) committing more (with all sorts of consequences for what troops are available elsewhere) and b) possibly pissing off the US, which seems like a bad investment.
Tell that to the US army and its lack of success making a dent in American migration west.
Bit of a bigger area to cover and somewhat more difficult to go and burn houses down and dump them at the border when they are your people in your country. Britain was able to remove the French from the maritime province after all.
But the French aren't bordering the area this area, so . . .
I wouldn't say it's impossible, just it might wind up more trouble than it's worth.
And thanks on the info.
I remember reading a book call Redcoats Revenge. If I recall correctly they were able to win a few key naval battles and gave them control over Chesapeake bay. This enabled gave them a much better position to continue the war.
The only issue is that it deals with a successful Hartford Convention later on, I have heard debates on how likely this was to actually happen.
The only issue is that it deals with a successful Hartford Convention later on, I have heard debates on how likely this was to actually happen.
Hmmmm, more detail. Control over the bay enabled Britain to be able to maneuver and resupply with ease, and the Hartford Convention decided to secede. At a key moment the New England militia abandoned the battle and walked.
I believe New England was then turned to a Dominion, but there was no effort for conquest. They were just able to do more with the time and resources they had.
I believe New England was then turned to a Dominion, but there was no effort for conquest. They were just able to do more with the time and resources they had.
Kaptin Kurk
Banned
Well, I don't see the British forcing an entire state into their sphere. They might take more land, were they completely as devoted to fighting the U.S. as they were to Napeoleon. (Which would take some PODs in Britain as well as the U.S., and probably France.)
Short of really using the South's slaves better than anyone before Lincoln, and probably in a way possible for the period, I also doubt the military victories would be that descisive. I can see the U.S. being forced to conceed territory however, but nothing crippling. (I don't see New England, despite it's protests, suddenly become an English puppet. Or even declaring full independence. Moreover, since the South, at this point, is probably willing to make concessions to keep New England in the war and union if push comes to shove.)
In the end, I can see revanchism being a bigger issue in the U.S. Maybe the abolitionists movement gets butterflied into something lesser, and the U.S. revanchism becomes something more, and Lee is commanding U.S. forces in the U.S.-British war of 1860.
Anyway, Anti-British sentiment in the U.S. was huge in the OTL mid-19th century. Any worse, due to humiliation in 1812, and I suspect another international war before the civil war.
Short of really using the South's slaves better than anyone before Lincoln, and probably in a way possible for the period, I also doubt the military victories would be that descisive. I can see the U.S. being forced to conceed territory however, but nothing crippling. (I don't see New England, despite it's protests, suddenly become an English puppet. Or even declaring full independence. Moreover, since the South, at this point, is probably willing to make concessions to keep New England in the war and union if push comes to shove.)
In the end, I can see revanchism being a bigger issue in the U.S. Maybe the abolitionists movement gets butterflied into something lesser, and the U.S. revanchism becomes something more, and Lee is commanding U.S. forces in the U.S.-British war of 1860.
Anyway, Anti-British sentiment in the U.S. was huge in the OTL mid-19th century. Any worse, due to humiliation in 1812, and I suspect another international war before the civil war.
I think you're right KK, American resentment would be huge and there would certainly be other clashes as the the century continued, who knows how it would even affect American opinion about the 1914-18 conflict, would they be willing to bury the hatchet and enter into an alliance with their old enemy like France did or would their German immigrants and the Anglophobe community come out on top this time.
As for 'policing/protecting' any Native American nation, would it not be probable that a stronger Canada would shoulder this responsibility?
As for 'policing/protecting' any Native American nation, would it not be probable that a stronger Canada would shoulder this responsibility?
How might one define who won?
Britain certainly achieved it's war aim of making the USA stop and go away so Britain could get on with fighting Napoleon.
It would have all have been so much easier if Napoleon had joined the Royal Navy as his anti-French father wanted him to.
I'm not sure what the American war aim was. Did they get it?
Detroit. So beautiful the Canadians gave it back........
Britain certainly achieved it's war aim of making the USA stop and go away so Britain could get on with fighting Napoleon.
It would have all have been so much easier if Napoleon had joined the Royal Navy as his anti-French father wanted him to.
I'm not sure what the American war aim was. Did they get it?
Detroit. So beautiful the Canadians gave it back........
I'm pretty sure that if the British took Michigan and Maine, we'd probably end up with a Canadian War during the Oregon disputes. The US would most likely win that one and take a good chunk of Canada.