Well, they had over 110 launch sites for SS-3, 4 and 5s and add in the Beagle and Badger bombers; I would say that would be improbable. It would depend on the alert level and such. Countering an attack on North America minus Alaska would have a good chance with an American first strike though. 26 ICBM launch sites and 5 intercontinental bomber bases would be the threat.
Voices of Doomsday
- Thread starter Geon
- Start date
http://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/publi...ent_status_of_the_russian_earlywarning_system. You were right Kessock. Looks like a first strike in 1962 would be a BOB for the Soviets
But, read Amerigo's TL. The Russians shoot first; naturally they will presume an American counterattack is coming any time after that.
And the Soviet plan is stupid, being the work of a bunch of second and lower tier planners, the top level of Soviet authority having been killed off by a coup.
And the Soviet plan is stupid, being the work of a bunch of second and lower tier planners, the top level of Soviet authority having been killed off by a coup.
That's true. However I've done the research and apparently an American first strike ( a whole other scenario) would have been undetected by the Soviets. Curtis LeMay would have loved that
Geon
Donor
That is fully my intention Vikingstar. I didn't mean to create a "cliffhanger" here but other projects have required my attention. To whet everyone's appetite I will say that you should recognize the name of the writer of the diary from the Cuban Missile War TL - one Aleksander Shelepin.
Diary
Geon
Donor
Vikingstar and arrowiv consider your persistence rewarded.
Everyone please, comment and enjoy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Diary
The following are excerpts from the diary of Alexander Shelepin, whose body we had discovered in the bunker. At the time of the crisis leading up to the war Shelepin was head of the KGB until 1961 when he was promoted to the Central Committee Secretariat. In 1962 he was appointed First Deputy Prime Minister. Later delving into old CIA records revealed Shelepin was what could be termed a new-Stalinist. He was favored by many of the old guard Stalinists, and believed in maintaining a firm hand on the wheel of state to ensure no dissent at home. In foreign affairs he, like those who supported him, believed that the Soviet Union must treat the United States with a very firm hand, to the point of confrontation if necessary.
From various papers and earlier entries in the diary we discovered Shelepin had engineered a coup that removed Khrushchev from power on the morning of October 28th. The coup resulted in Khrushchev’s death which was apparently not what Shelepin wanted. Judging from the writings in his diary it appears that matters quickly spiraled far out of his control.
Entry from October 28th, 1962
I am uneasy.
When I contacted my KGB colleagues to suggest Khrushchev’s removal from power it was not my intent to see him murdered! But the plan was formed quickly, too quickly, without giving me any say in the matter.
I am concerned how this will be portrayed to the people. The last thing we need right now is a group of die-hards trying a counter-coup. I agree with the rest of the Politburo. Better to let the crisis pass and then announce Premier Khrushchev’s death of “natural causes” brought on by the crisis.
In any case now we can settle down to actually dealing with this mess Khrushchev got us into. The best way I can see to do this is to ratchet up the pressure on the Americans. Force them to back down. No sane person wants a nuclear war, so by increasing the pressure we force the Americans to the brink to the point where they must decide if it is worth destroying so much. It is simple. The American President will be offered a choice. Accept Soviet missiles in Cuba or start a war that will destroy everything. The choice should be simple for him to make.
Entry from October 29th, 1962
I should not have agreed to the invasion.
We should never have involved ourselves in this Cuban quagmire. All that has happened in the last several hours has revealed we are in a pool of quicksand that is sucking us deeper and deeper into the abyss.
First came word from Pilayev that the Cubans had seized several tactical nuclear FROG missiles and fired a number of them at the Americans naval base. No surprise that the Americans then responded. First with a strike against the town of Guantanamo itself, then with a strike against Havana.
The Politburo agreed that a response was needed to show our resolve. At the time it seemed an appropriate one. We would launch a conventional limited invasion of Western Europe with the goal of removing U.S. nuclear weapons in Germany. Politically we could claim we were acting in our own self-defense claiming we had learned that the U.S. was planning a pre-emptive strike against the Soviet Union.
As a carrot to our invasion “stick” our foreign minister suggested that we not permanently occupy West Germany but make a number of reasonable demands.
Instead it has been a disaster. First, news comes from Cuba that the Americans have launched a full-scale invasion of the island. A full scale air and ground attack began earlier this morning and the Americans are slowly gaining ground in Cuba.
Pilayev has been told not to use any of his nuclear weapons unless he receives direct authorization from Moscow. However, radio contact is becoming more and more sporadic. There is a fear Pilayev may panic or worse that the Cubans may do what they did earlier, seize the weapons and use them.
That should have been a warning to us. But the rest of the Politburo believed launching a conventional attack in Western Europe would force the Americans to divert reinforcements from Cuba to protect West Germany.
The plan was a disaster! Our air force has suffered major losses over West Germany. At sea our hunter-killer submarines are systematically being slaughtered by the NATO naval forces. And on land, our invasion forces are quickly becoming bogged down because of heavy NATO resistance.
Worse. Many in the Politburo now see the only way to remove the NATO threat is to initiate “limited” use of tactical nuclear weapons.
I must try to convince them that there is no such thing as a “limited” use of such weapons. NATO will respond. And from there who can say what disaster we will face?
Entry from October 30th, 1962
If there is a hell I hope all my former comrades in the Politburo will soon be burning in it!
The complete and utter fools!
First came word that nuclear weapons on Cuba had been used both against advancing U.S. invaders and against the U.S. mainland. There has been no further word from Pilayev so it must be assumed he is either dead or a prisoner of our ‘allies’ in Cuba.
Then came news of a tactical nuclear weapon being detonated in West Germany against a Soviet tank battalion approaching Rhein-Main. The theater commander immediately ordered a response and since then both sides have been exchanging “limited” nuclear strikes.
Oh, but it didn’t stop there. Now the Politburo is in a complete panic. They believe the only way to stop the U.S. is to destroy their nuclear capability with a full pre-emptive first strike. While they believe the motherland will take “some damage” they also believe if we strike first we can permanently eliminate the U.S. nuclear threat once and for all.
I argued against this and for my pains I was removed from any further discussions. Unlike Nikita however I was not shot but simply taken to one of the offices. There to await the decision of the rest of the Politburo.
A few hours later I was escorted out of the office and back to the conference room. I was given a choice. Either I could stay on in the Politburo as their figurehead with no real power and be their mouthpiece to the Soviet people. Or, I would face the same fate that befell Khrushchev earlier. I accepted the role of figurehead only because it kept me alive a while longer to find some way out of this.
I was immediately taken out to one of the many cars waiting outside. With a military guard we roared through the deserted streets of Moscow even as the eerie wailing of air raid sirens filled the air. I learned my destination is over 100 miles from Moscow and we will be driving all night to get there before morning. As we drove out of Moscow I tried to memorize every detail of what I saw knowing I would see none of that city again.
Entry from October 31st, 1962
We had just reached the command bunker when we saw the first of the flashes near Moscow.
We were quickly hustled into the bunker. I learned I was the only Politburo member here along with several high-ranking army officers.
It is now almost midnight. As near as we can tell none of the other command bunkers survived the first wave of American attacks. There is news that the Americans have launched a second strike. Sadly, we no longer have the ability, if we ever did, to do the same.
Moscow is dead.
Leningrad is dead.
Kiev is dead.
The cities of the Soviet Union are burning. The glorious years of progress we made following the war are now nothing but ash.
I can write no more today. It is too painful.
Entry from November 7th, 1962.
We were informed that East German forces have surrendered unconditionally to NATO. The war in the west is for all intents and purposes over. So is the war here.
What transmissions we are receiving tell of a more and more confused and panic remnant in the Soviet armed forces trying to figure out what to do. Sadly, there is no help we can offer them.
We are observers now only. Observers to the greatest human tragedy of all times.
Like Nero did with Rome, I watch as Russia burns.
Final entry from November 23rd, 1962
I write this as my last testament to anyone who may be left alive and discover it hereafter.
Our nation is dead. Our cause is dead.
There are some in the bunker who believe there is yet hope. Perhaps for them there is. They are mostly young and idealistic. They still believe something or someone will be able to pull us back from the abyss.
A handful of young officers have been given permission to leave the bunker by their senior officers. There is no use trying to maintain a military order when the military no longer exists. The senior officers along with myself however have decided to end our lives in as honorable a way as possible rather than face the world we have wrought by our stupidity.
After a last and surprisingly good meal on the supplies of food we had in the bunker the remaining officers and I retired to our respective quarters. There we will end our lives in whatever way we deem appropriate.
It is strange. I understand that before Adolph Hitler committed suicide in his bunker in Berlin there was a great deal of discussion among his entourage of how they were going to kill themselves. This as the victorious forces of the Red Army bore down on the bunker. Now, we find ourselves in a very similar situation. In a bunker, our nation in ruins around us, contemplating the end. The Americans have a saying that may be apt here. “What goes around comes around.”
Many of the others have chosen to use their pistols. I however have chosen the “suicide kits” we were given. I have been told the drug works quickly and painlessly. I wonder how those who came up with this could make that claim. Nevertheless for me it will soon be over.
To any who may read this, I ask forgiveness. I wanted to save Russia, not see it burn. Let my epitaph simply be that I desired above all the good of my nation. If any of the Americans find this, I do not blame you. I blame the fools who told us defeating you would be “easy.” We have both paid for their presumption.
And if there is a God, I pray He may forgive me for what I have done. I know I can never forgive myself.
Farewell Nikita. Forgive me.
[The diary ends.]
Everyone please, comment and enjoy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Diary
The following are excerpts from the diary of Alexander Shelepin, whose body we had discovered in the bunker. At the time of the crisis leading up to the war Shelepin was head of the KGB until 1961 when he was promoted to the Central Committee Secretariat. In 1962 he was appointed First Deputy Prime Minister. Later delving into old CIA records revealed Shelepin was what could be termed a new-Stalinist. He was favored by many of the old guard Stalinists, and believed in maintaining a firm hand on the wheel of state to ensure no dissent at home. In foreign affairs he, like those who supported him, believed that the Soviet Union must treat the United States with a very firm hand, to the point of confrontation if necessary.
From various papers and earlier entries in the diary we discovered Shelepin had engineered a coup that removed Khrushchev from power on the morning of October 28th. The coup resulted in Khrushchev’s death which was apparently not what Shelepin wanted. Judging from the writings in his diary it appears that matters quickly spiraled far out of his control.
Entry from October 28th, 1962
I am uneasy.
When I contacted my KGB colleagues to suggest Khrushchev’s removal from power it was not my intent to see him murdered! But the plan was formed quickly, too quickly, without giving me any say in the matter.
I am concerned how this will be portrayed to the people. The last thing we need right now is a group of die-hards trying a counter-coup. I agree with the rest of the Politburo. Better to let the crisis pass and then announce Premier Khrushchev’s death of “natural causes” brought on by the crisis.
In any case now we can settle down to actually dealing with this mess Khrushchev got us into. The best way I can see to do this is to ratchet up the pressure on the Americans. Force them to back down. No sane person wants a nuclear war, so by increasing the pressure we force the Americans to the brink to the point where they must decide if it is worth destroying so much. It is simple. The American President will be offered a choice. Accept Soviet missiles in Cuba or start a war that will destroy everything. The choice should be simple for him to make.
Entry from October 29th, 1962
I should not have agreed to the invasion.
We should never have involved ourselves in this Cuban quagmire. All that has happened in the last several hours has revealed we are in a pool of quicksand that is sucking us deeper and deeper into the abyss.
First came word from Pilayev that the Cubans had seized several tactical nuclear FROG missiles and fired a number of them at the Americans naval base. No surprise that the Americans then responded. First with a strike against the town of Guantanamo itself, then with a strike against Havana.
The Politburo agreed that a response was needed to show our resolve. At the time it seemed an appropriate one. We would launch a conventional limited invasion of Western Europe with the goal of removing U.S. nuclear weapons in Germany. Politically we could claim we were acting in our own self-defense claiming we had learned that the U.S. was planning a pre-emptive strike against the Soviet Union.
As a carrot to our invasion “stick” our foreign minister suggested that we not permanently occupy West Germany but make a number of reasonable demands.
- All remaining nuclear weapons be withdrawn from West Germany.
- West Berlin to be annexed by East Germany.
- West Germany to withdraw from NATO.
- In return Warsaw Pact forces would withdraw from West Germany and any offensive nuclear weapons in Cuba would also be removed.
Instead it has been a disaster. First, news comes from Cuba that the Americans have launched a full-scale invasion of the island. A full scale air and ground attack began earlier this morning and the Americans are slowly gaining ground in Cuba.
Pilayev has been told not to use any of his nuclear weapons unless he receives direct authorization from Moscow. However, radio contact is becoming more and more sporadic. There is a fear Pilayev may panic or worse that the Cubans may do what they did earlier, seize the weapons and use them.
That should have been a warning to us. But the rest of the Politburo believed launching a conventional attack in Western Europe would force the Americans to divert reinforcements from Cuba to protect West Germany.
The plan was a disaster! Our air force has suffered major losses over West Germany. At sea our hunter-killer submarines are systematically being slaughtered by the NATO naval forces. And on land, our invasion forces are quickly becoming bogged down because of heavy NATO resistance.
Worse. Many in the Politburo now see the only way to remove the NATO threat is to initiate “limited” use of tactical nuclear weapons.
I must try to convince them that there is no such thing as a “limited” use of such weapons. NATO will respond. And from there who can say what disaster we will face?
Entry from October 30th, 1962
If there is a hell I hope all my former comrades in the Politburo will soon be burning in it!
The complete and utter fools!
First came word that nuclear weapons on Cuba had been used both against advancing U.S. invaders and against the U.S. mainland. There has been no further word from Pilayev so it must be assumed he is either dead or a prisoner of our ‘allies’ in Cuba.
Then came news of a tactical nuclear weapon being detonated in West Germany against a Soviet tank battalion approaching Rhein-Main. The theater commander immediately ordered a response and since then both sides have been exchanging “limited” nuclear strikes.
Oh, but it didn’t stop there. Now the Politburo is in a complete panic. They believe the only way to stop the U.S. is to destroy their nuclear capability with a full pre-emptive first strike. While they believe the motherland will take “some damage” they also believe if we strike first we can permanently eliminate the U.S. nuclear threat once and for all.
I argued against this and for my pains I was removed from any further discussions. Unlike Nikita however I was not shot but simply taken to one of the offices. There to await the decision of the rest of the Politburo.
A few hours later I was escorted out of the office and back to the conference room. I was given a choice. Either I could stay on in the Politburo as their figurehead with no real power and be their mouthpiece to the Soviet people. Or, I would face the same fate that befell Khrushchev earlier. I accepted the role of figurehead only because it kept me alive a while longer to find some way out of this.
I was immediately taken out to one of the many cars waiting outside. With a military guard we roared through the deserted streets of Moscow even as the eerie wailing of air raid sirens filled the air. I learned my destination is over 100 miles from Moscow and we will be driving all night to get there before morning. As we drove out of Moscow I tried to memorize every detail of what I saw knowing I would see none of that city again.
Entry from October 31st, 1962
We had just reached the command bunker when we saw the first of the flashes near Moscow.
We were quickly hustled into the bunker. I learned I was the only Politburo member here along with several high-ranking army officers.
It is now almost midnight. As near as we can tell none of the other command bunkers survived the first wave of American attacks. There is news that the Americans have launched a second strike. Sadly, we no longer have the ability, if we ever did, to do the same.
Moscow is dead.
Leningrad is dead.
Kiev is dead.
The cities of the Soviet Union are burning. The glorious years of progress we made following the war are now nothing but ash.
I can write no more today. It is too painful.
Entry from November 7th, 1962.
We were informed that East German forces have surrendered unconditionally to NATO. The war in the west is for all intents and purposes over. So is the war here.
What transmissions we are receiving tell of a more and more confused and panic remnant in the Soviet armed forces trying to figure out what to do. Sadly, there is no help we can offer them.
We are observers now only. Observers to the greatest human tragedy of all times.
Like Nero did with Rome, I watch as Russia burns.
Final entry from November 23rd, 1962
I write this as my last testament to anyone who may be left alive and discover it hereafter.
Our nation is dead. Our cause is dead.
There are some in the bunker who believe there is yet hope. Perhaps for them there is. They are mostly young and idealistic. They still believe something or someone will be able to pull us back from the abyss.
A handful of young officers have been given permission to leave the bunker by their senior officers. There is no use trying to maintain a military order when the military no longer exists. The senior officers along with myself however have decided to end our lives in as honorable a way as possible rather than face the world we have wrought by our stupidity.
After a last and surprisingly good meal on the supplies of food we had in the bunker the remaining officers and I retired to our respective quarters. There we will end our lives in whatever way we deem appropriate.
It is strange. I understand that before Adolph Hitler committed suicide in his bunker in Berlin there was a great deal of discussion among his entourage of how they were going to kill themselves. This as the victorious forces of the Red Army bore down on the bunker. Now, we find ourselves in a very similar situation. In a bunker, our nation in ruins around us, contemplating the end. The Americans have a saying that may be apt here. “What goes around comes around.”
Many of the others have chosen to use their pistols. I however have chosen the “suicide kits” we were given. I have been told the drug works quickly and painlessly. I wonder how those who came up with this could make that claim. Nevertheless for me it will soon be over.
To any who may read this, I ask forgiveness. I wanted to save Russia, not see it burn. Let my epitaph simply be that I desired above all the good of my nation. If any of the Americans find this, I do not blame you. I blame the fools who told us defeating you would be “easy.” We have both paid for their presumption.
And if there is a God, I pray He may forgive me for what I have done. I know I can never forgive myself.
Farewell Nikita. Forgive me.
[The diary ends.]
Last edited:
Good that history can better reconstruct what the hell happened in the Kremlin.
I am not sure Shelepin had the soul to write this way though. He looks like a Kafkaesque cockroach of a man from what little I do know of him; it seems the writing gives him too much credit for being able to understand and acknowledge his own responsibility.
But then again, people are funny. Maybe he did have this sort of self-critical ability after all, did have a fair allotment of the culture Russians do pride themselves on.
It honestly seems too good to be his words, but maybe the real Shelepin of OTL had depths that would surprise people.
I am not sure Shelepin had the soul to write this way though. He looks like a Kafkaesque cockroach of a man from what little I do know of him; it seems the writing gives him too much credit for being able to understand and acknowledge his own responsibility.
But then again, people are funny. Maybe he did have this sort of self-critical ability after all, did have a fair allotment of the culture Russians do pride themselves on.
It honestly seems too good to be his words, but maybe the real Shelepin of OTL had depths that would surprise people.
Bookmark1995
Banned
The world falling down around you, partly because of your own misguided actions, can really deflate one's ego, I suppose. In his last days, as the last bit a food was consumed, I guess he realized what truly mattered in life.
Either that or the "diary" is a fake document cooked up by some archaeologist or something.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I bet the debate over who was more responsible for the Cuban Missile War will be very, very heated, regardless of this diary or not.
Well, it been around 45 years since the Cuban Missile War. The diary will help, but it would have to deal with 45 years of very Anti-Soviet feelings and blame for the War and Fallout from it.
Geon
Donor
Slight correction. As I indicated in part 1 of back to the USSR the "bosses" of the village were survivors from a Soviet mechanized infantry group who had made their way back to Russia. The fate of the young officers who left the bunker remains for the moment unknown.
it would have been strange for no state-like structure(s) to develop anywhere across Russia beyond the autonomous commune level
It would be interesting to see if there are any other documents in that bunker; transcripts of communications, attack warnings, that sort of thing.