in a TL I'm writing, the submarine USS Tautog encounters the Japanese fleet 250 mi north of Hawaii as they're retreating back to Japan. What kind of damage could the Tautog do? Would it survive the encounter? Would the American fleet or aircraft be able to find and attack the Strike Force?
USS Tautog ambushes Pearl Strike Force
- Thread starter ThreeDee3
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- pearl harbor wwii
A best is a bit of a weak description if its a CV, IJN damage control isn't amazing and its a long way from home.....
A 6 torpedo spread at relatively close range should see a IJN Flat top sunk even with dodgy MK 14 torpedoes - her captain must have been doing something right as Tautog did sink several ships in the Spring of 42 including 2 IJN Subs
Some things to think about. Japanese ASW was atrocious throughout the war, they are still in air range of US bases, the Tautog is probably the best American submarine of WWII, the US Navy is out in force searching for the retreating ships, the taking of Wake relied on the carriers assisting the invasion, and any ship that gets damaged will probably have to be abandoned.
If the CV isn't sunk,severe flooding or a ruptured oil bunker will cause her to be abandoned.
Pangur
Donor
. That might be wise. Fire a spread and get out of town. Well lurk near by and be ready to have another crack at them if the chance comes up
One issue I noticed is tat if the USS Tautog struck first, there's a risk that the impetus to declare war on Japan might not be as strong. Sure, Japan is probably going to come up with a pathetically weak excuse for having ships so far out at sea without prior notice, but they could still claim they were attacked 'without provocation'.
Well the op is for a retreating carriers rather than a preemptive strike.
Japhy
Banned
If they find the fleet the only option isnt an ambush but a suicide rise to the surface to send off a radio transmission. Japanese standing orders would have been to sink it immediately, so depending on the location relative the task force they might make the transmission, might not. But they're not going to manage sinking anyone in revenge.
If the attack was made in the evening of the 7th in or near darkness the attack could be made on the surface and then crash dive the sub - the report could be made as the attack was being setup and executed.
Anyone know the moon state on or about the 7th Dec 1941?
Anyone know the moon state on or about the 7th Dec 1941?
The US military in the Pacific had already been given permission to attack any Japanese ships or aircraft in attack range of US ships, aircraft, or bases. The 'Consider Hostile' order issued in November was designed to give isolated commanders the freedom to act.
This very similar to the 'sink on sight' order given to the Atlantic fleet.
Heavy overcast with frequent rain squalls. The strike force broke past the weather front early morning.
Thanks very much - so a 'USS Tautog' chancing across the Carrier force during the evening of the 7th Dec would be almost undetectable on the surface and could, barring poor luck, conduct a surface attack on a flat top
I would also suspect given the methods of the day that the carriers would not be that close together (unless they had closed up for night time steaming? And even then they would be some distance apart) and that its unlikely that more than one carrier could be 'effectively' targeted before the sub was obliged to dive and try to escape.
However Tautog also has 4 stern tubes (I'm assuming that there would have been no time to reload the 6 bow tubes during her escape) so its possible that she returns to the scene of her 'crime' to find the flat top (had it not sunk) stopped, moving slowly or undertow and she finishes the carrier off with a stern spread.
Yes the IJN carrier fleet discovered in that part of the world had but one purpose - and that in itself would have been a Casus Belli as far as the US and any realistic historian would be concerned.