USA's Flag if CSA victory

[David S Poepoe]

Well, there is this kind of tricolour, which in OTL has only been used by fairly obscure countries:

EDIT: Also this:

I'm not sure if anyone pointed out that when one turns the flag upside it is the same as Russia's merchant marine flag from 1705.

http://www.allstates-flag.com/fotw/flags/ru.html#flag

 

[Paul Spring]

If the USA really wanted to emphasize the idea of keeping the seceded states on its flag in a "disgraced" form, it could also have something like this - the eleven stars representing the seceded states are both in black (outlined in white to set it apart from the dark blue) and upside down, a double symbolism of disgrace.

For the really antislavery northerners, white and black, it could even have a more subtle symbolism - the black inside white of the upside down stars could indicate that the seceded states did so so that white (the outline) could maintain control over black (the interior).

 

[OAM47]

If the USA really wanted to emphasize the idea of keeping the seceded states on its flag in a "disgraced" form, it could also have something like this - the eleven stars representing the seceded states are both in black (outlined in white to set it apart from the dark blue) and upside down, a double symbolism of disgrace.

For the really antislavery northerners, white and black, it could even have a more subtle symbolism - the black inside white of the upside down stars could indicate that the seceded states did so so that white (the outline) could maintain control over black (the interior).

I like it, but I prefer Thande's star slection.

 

[sprite]

I like the idea of replacing the stars with one big white star, to try and indicate that they're one nation, not a union of states.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/f/fic-ura.gif

 

[Tocomocho]

I like the idea of replacing the stars with one big white star, to try and indicate that they're one nation, not a union of states.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/f/fic-ura.gif

Or alternatively, one with the American eagle and no stars at all

Take this as a "civil" version, coexisting with a government one with the full US coat of arms in the canton.

 

[stevep]

If the USA really wanted to emphasize the idea of keeping the seceded states on its flag in a "disgraced" form, it could also have something like this - the eleven stars representing the seceded states are both in black (outlined in white to set it apart from the dark blue) and upside down, a double symbolism of disgrace.

For the really antislavery northerners, white and black, it could even have a more subtle symbolism - the black inside white of the upside down stars could indicate that the seceded states did so so that white (the outline) could maintain control over black (the interior).

Guys

I think Paul's flag has one clear advantage over Thande's in the position of the lost stars. On Thande's they basically encircle the remaining states. This could not only have unwelcome connotations but what happens when new states are added? With Paul's they can simply be added to the top pushing the lost stars down. With Thande's unless you wait intil 4 more can be added you have to break the lines.

Steve

 

[Frige]

I like the idea of replacing the stars with one big white star, to try and indicate that they're one nation, not a union of states.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/f/fic-ura.gif

I once had the idea of using this for a corporatist, fascist 'United State of America'

 

[Thande]

I'm not sure if anyone pointed out that when one turns the flag upside it is the same as Russia's merchant marine flag from 1705.

Yes, and I believe that vertical tricolour was used by a French-backed republic somewhere in the 1790s, and the other one is a Serb banner that might already have been in use in the 1860s, but would the Americans care? After all, nowadays you've got countries like Chad and Romania or Monaco and Indonesia with almost identical flags, but the chance of the two being together to rouse confusion is vanishingly unlikely except perhaps at the UN or the Olympics, neither of which existed in the 1860s.

I think the CSA has a greater chance of completely changing the format of their flag, but this is just a crazy idea I had: what about an inverse American flag? As in, blue field with stars, and stripes in the canton?

I believe one of those briefly existed in OTL. Let me see if I can find it...

If the USA really wanted to emphasize the idea of keeping the seceded states on its flag in a "disgraced" form, it could also have something like this - the eleven stars representing the seceded states are both in black (outlined in white to set it apart from the dark blue) and upside down, a double symbolism of disgrace.

We could combine our ideas. Upside down red stars (perhaps fringed in white), maybe.

Although I get the symbolism of them being black, it just doesn't stand out enough - on your flag it looks pretty much as if they're just hollow (i.e. white-outlined dark blue).

 

[Thande]

I believe one of those briefly existed in OTL. Let me see if I can find it...

Here we go - it's a Pennsylvania regimental flag from either the ARW or the War of 1812, no-one's quite certain which apparently.

 

[ninebucks]

I like the idea of removing the seceded states' stars. Especially if the arrangement of the remaining stars isn't changed, so that the removed stars looks like they are missing. I knocked this up quickly:

 

[Thande]

I like the idea of removing the seceded states' stars. Especially if the arrangement of the remaining stars isn't changed, so that the removed stars looks like they are missing. I knocked this up quickly:

The US flag, eclipsed by Confederate Toblerone!

 

[AirshipArmada]

How about this:

The blue field is enlarged to place more importance on current states - one star per current state (23 at war's end). The 13 stripes are retained but in a proportionately smaller field. The swallow tail shape makes a notch in the flag silently representing the loss of some states.

When in banner form, the notch is prescribed to extend three and a half stripes upward (representing the loss of Georgia, the Carolinas, and half of Virginia).

bonus image:

 

[A_Die_Hard_Confederate]

Or alternatively, one with the American eagle and no stars at all

Take this as a "civil" version, coexisting with a government one with the full US coat of arms in the canton.

I believe that is our winner!

 

[David S Poepoe]

The US flag, eclipsed by Confederate Toblerone!

I think its more the starry constellation obscured by the phantom pyramid and all seeing eye from the reserve of the Great Seal.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Or alternatively, one with the American eagle and no stars at all

Take this as a "civil" version, coexisting with a government one with the full US coat of arms in the canton.

Problem with that Idea ...

Of The People, By The People, And for The People ...

In The US, The People ARE The Government!

 

[OAM47]

Got my comp with the tools back, and I epicly falied at making the centered union flag. Anyone else wnat to give it a shot?

 

[MadAce]

 

[Prince Charon]

If the USA really wanted to emphasize the idea of keeping the seceded states on its flag in a "disgraced" form, it could also have something like this - the eleven stars representing the seceded states are both in black (outlined in white to set it apart from the dark blue) and upside down, a double symbolism of disgrace.

I think that would be improved if you changed the interior to red, for better visibility. I tried to do that, myself, but my image editor refuses to open that file.

 

[Canis Lupus]

That sounds more like the CSA would have been. A corrupt country run by it's aristocracy.

Not really, since those are all things that the Union did during the ACW.

States' rights boy, you just got served.

Not realy, since those are all things that the Union Government did during the Civil War.

Lest this turn into yet another argument about why slavery is great, as P would say, I'll actually post the red-star variant so we can see what it would look like.

This assumes that Kentucky and Missouri are not in the CSA, that the OTL states admitted to the Union 1860-65 still do so, and that Virginia is considered a separate state to West Virginia.

Interesing

This one good?

If the USA really wanted to emphasize the idea of keeping the seceded states on its flag in a "disgraced" form, it could also have something like this - the eleven stars representing the seceded states are both in black (outlined in white to set it apart from the dark blue) and upside down, a double symbolism of disgrace.

For the really antislavery northerners, white and black, it could even have a more subtle symbolism - the black inside white of the upside down stars could indicate that the seceded states did so so that white (the outline) could maintain control over black (the interior).

I like this one.

Or alternatively, one with the American eagle and no stars at all

Take this as a "civil" version, coexisting with a government one with the full US coat of arms in the canton.

Badass

I like the idea of removing the seceded states' stars. Especially if the arrangement of the remaining stars isn't changed, so that the removed stars looks like they are missing. I knocked this up quickly:

Hmmm...

How about this:

The blue field is enlarged to place more importance on current states - one star per current state (23 at war's end). The 13 stripes are retained but in a proportionately smaller field. The swallow tail shape makes a notch in the flag silently representing the loss of some states.

When in banner form, the notch is prescribed to extend three and a half stripes upward (representing the loss of Georgia, the Carolinas, and half of Virginia).

bonus image:

Very nicely done!

I like the idea of the notch in the stripes, taking out the number of the original 13 that went to the CSA.

Did you make this yourself?

 

[AirshipArmada]

Hmmm...
Very nicely done!

I like the idea of the notch in the stripes, taking out the number of the original 13 that went to the CSA.

Did you make this yourself?

Thanks. Yep, self made.

Here is the wave treatment given to Tocomocho's popular flag:

Turned out a little more cartoon like than I wanted. Oh well.