USA's Flag if CSA victory

This has been bugging me personaly, and I don't have access to my tools to make a flag, so I'll just have to think out loud about it.

Would the US change its flag if the CSA wins? I know the arguments against it, but for the sake of creativity, what would it change it to if it did? I can see them scrapping the stars for states, though atleast one star will probably remain. The colors would probably stay the same, but the 13 stripes idea will probably be stopped, as not all 13 are still in the union, and I don't think just reducing the stripe count would be a popular idea.

What do you all think?
 
Hm, this is a good question- I don't think they would get rid of the thirteen stripes, though- just claim it as the original thirteen colonies that rebelled and signed the Constitution, it doesn't matter that not all of the thirteen aren't there anymore. That would also allow them to keep the thirteen-symbolism in the Coat of Arms and on the Great Seal.
 

Thande

Donor
Interesting question - agree with Imajin they'd keep the 13 stripes. As for the rest, I can think of several possibilities:
  • Keep pre-Civil War flag to symbolise enduring commitment to Union
  • Speed up process of admitting states from western territories until it fits the number of pre-war states
  • Get rid of the stars altogether and replace them with one big star or some other symbol to avoid the number question (and perhaps emphasise the increasing federalism as opposed to states' rights)
  • Take the CS states' stars off, though this will probably be unpopular. Or colour them red to represent "lost states" that will one day be regaind, if you're in a vengeful mood.
 
This has been bugging me personaly, and I don't have access to my tools to make a flag, so I'll just have to think out loud about it.

Would the US change its flag if the CSA wins? I know the arguments against it, but for the sake of creativity, what would it change it to if it did? I can see them scrapping the stars for states, though atleast one star will probably remain. The colors would probably stay the same, but the 13 stripes idea will probably be stopped, as not all 13 are still in the union, and I don't think just reducing the stripe count would be a popular idea.

What do you all think?
Hm, this is a good question- I don't think they would get rid of the thirteen stripes, though- just claim it as the original thirteen colonies that rebelled and signed the Constitution, it doesn't matter that not all of the thirteen aren't there anymore. That would also allow them to keep the thirteen-symbolism in the Coat of Arms and on the Great Seal.
Historically there was no real talk of significantly changing the U.S. flag. Basically the most likely outcome is they remove the stars representing the seceded States, and that is all. Basically you end up with a flag with 20-something stars instead of 30-something stars, on a blue field, with 13 alternating red and white stripes, just like the prewar flag.
 
Yeah, I think they'd keep the stripes, though not the stars.

Besides, if they took out five of the stripes, it would look even more like the Stars and Bars.
 
Good points all. I do realize the old design, minus the CS stars would be popular, but this is for talking about alternitives. :D

Along lothaw's train of thought, this could be a reason for a completly new flag design, featuring the ever popular few stars, though I had a hard time racking my brain for a way to make it not look like France's flag :D I settled on a horizontal red, white, and blue (in that order) horizontal tricolor (IE opposite direction of France's) with two white stars, one centered on the red stripe, and one centered on the blue. I know, horrible idea, but comming up with a completly new design is hard :eek:

Hopefully I'll have some tools late tommrow to make one, but in the mean time if anyone wants a shot at making what I invision, go right ahead.
 

Thande

Donor
I settled on a horizontal red, white, and blue (in that order) horizontal tricolor (IE opposite direction of France's) with two white stars, one centered on the red stripe, and one centered on the blue. I know, horrible idea, but comming up with a completly new design is hard
Too similar to the Dutch flag, I think.
 

Thande

Donor
Gah, there just isn't too much you can do with the US flag in this direction :eek: I just want atleast one completly new design to compare to.
Well, there is this kind of tricolour, which in OTL has only been used by fairly obscure countries:




EDIT: Also this:

 
I thought I had read that there was no Official Apperance, but when I checked I found that the twentieth century Presidents just had to Meddle in another area of Free American Individuality.
The current form of the American flag, with its thirteen red and white stripes, blue field, and fifty white stars, has an evolutionary history. On 14 June 1777, the Continental Congress passed the first Flag Act, which reads, "Resolved, That the flag of the United States be made of thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new Constellation." The overall flag size, proportions, and arrangements of the stars and stripes were not fixed until President William Taft's administration in 1912. :rolleyes: For one hundred and thirty-five years, the flag had no prescribed appearance, and many variations were designed and sewn.

There have been two other Flag Acts since, the first one in 1777, and three executive orders affecting the appearance of the flag. The Act of 13 January 1794 provided for fifteen stars and fifteen stripes after May 1795. The Act of 4 April 1818 provided for thirteen stripes with a star for each state, added to flag on the first July fourth after statehood signed by President James Monroe. President Taft, by Executive Order on 24 June 1912, designated proportions for the flag with six horizontal rows of eight stars each, with one point of each star pointing upward. President Dwight Eisenhower, by Executive Order on 3 January 1959, provided for an arrangement of stars in seven rows of seven stars each, staggered both horizontally and vertically. Again, on 21 August 1959, President Eisenhower signed an Executive Order that arranged the stars in rows of nine stars staggered horizontally and eleven rows of stars staggered vertically.
 
Well, there is this kind of tricolour, which in OTL has only been used by fairly obscure countries:



EDIT: Also this:
Hmmm, not sure about changing the ordering. I don't like those.

I thought I had read that there was no Official Apperance, but when I checked I found that the twentieth century Presidents just had to Meddle in another area of Free American Individuality.
I knew that, though had no idea the date of the change was so late! This gives me an idea. How about centering the union part of the flag? Without or without star regulation changes?
 
I just don't see the US changing the Stars and Stripes. It's too well rooted, not to mention the national anthem is inspired by the flag.

The stars yes, they represent the states. The flag as a whole, no. Short of a fundamental change in government type, national flags usually don't change. The South winning would be a tragedy for the north. But I don't think that would change the democratic government of the US.
 

Jasen777

Donor
One single star sounds like a good idea. That way they wouldn't either have to admit states were lost, or be in the situation of having "bogus" stars on the flag.
 
One single star sounds like a good idea. That way they wouldn't either have to admit states were lost, or be in the situation of having "bogus" stars on the flag.
That would be too much of a rip off of Texas' flag.

Houston's army at San Jacinto marched under a thirteen stripe flag with a single star.
 
Red Stars

I like the idea of red stars for the lost states, if you're feeling vengeful, or black ones if you're more symbolizing sadness at the loss. But to keep them reasonably visible, outline them in white. Either that, or turn the stars for the succeeded states upside down as a reminder that they've rebelled.

Keeping the stars is a symbol to the people that the nation is not yet healed, and won't be until the stars are right again.

Alternatively, draw a diagonal across the union, with part of it black, a white border between them (so it stands out--black vs blue makes for poor visibility), and white, inverted stars in the (smaller) black portion which represent the rebelling states.
 
I really like the red star idea too.
I'm not sure its realistic in this situation-a bit TOO bloody and vengful- but certainly cool.
 
Top