USA Declares Nuclear Monopoly After WWII

Why Silverplates? The vehicle in 1949 would have been the B-36.

I’m using Silverplate in a more generic sense, although technically nuclear modifications for B-50s and B-36s fell under the separate Saddletree prpgram. Although it probably would have still been the ‘29/‘50s. The US only had a few ‘36s in 1949 and they were all problem children: a mess of mechanical issues plus their defensive guns flat out didn’t work.

Of course in 1950 the MiG-15 could shoot it down so the window is very small.

The MiG-15 has already entered service in quantity by 1949. First service model flew on New Year’s Eve and over 700 were manufactured by the end of the year. These early versions did have the odd tendency to randomly roll, but that was quickly fixed with some nose trimmers afixed on the airfield.
 
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So, the US loses its goddamn mind?

Don't be surprised to see the US take the place of the Soviets as the world's boogeyman in this TL.
 
The nuclear attack never gets off the ground in the first place. Keeping nuclear weapons at "launch ready" status was a 1950s innovation. In the 1940s, atomic warheads were stored stateside in a disassembled state. Nor would this be a intercontinental affair as true intercontinental aircraft still lay years off and the bomber would have to operate from a base in Western Europe. That would require first, the cooperation of the Western European country in question despite and second the preparation of a forward base within that country which contains the facilities for the storage and assembly of atomic weapons. No such facilities had yet been prepared in the late-1940s. The weapon would have to be removed from their stateside storage, shipped across the state's by train, then sailed across the Atlantic, assembled (which alone takes two days) before it could even be loaded into the aircraft. Long story short, it would be months before the US could make good on their threat.

Not quite that time consuming. Here's US OFFTACKLE plan presented in April 1950, which is, of course, not in 1940's but before the Korean War.

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nukevault/special/doc03b.pdf

Movements to UK and Alaska complete by E+5, first atomic strikes E+6.

This was first planned in exercise "DUALISM" in 1948 so I'd imagine timeframe would have been somewhat similar. Nevertheless, UK co-operation would be required.

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nukevault/special/doc03c.pdf
 
Not quite that time consuming. Here's US OFFTACKLE plan presented in April 1950, which is, of course, not in 1940's but before the Korean War.

Movements to UK and Alaska complete by E+5, first atomic strikes E+6.

Yes. That long. Citing Offtackle doesn't do us very much good, since as late as November 1949 the US lacked the forces and the in place logistics to execute it.

"If Offtackle was politically appropriate, serious doubts remained concerning its military feasibility. The authors of the plan realized they lacked adequate forces to execute it. Their view was soon confirmed by the Joint Logistics Plans Committee which had in fact been examining the logistic implications of Offtackle while the JSPC was working on it.

On November 15, 1949 the JLPC informed the JCS that Offtackle was infeasible in terms of carrier aircraft, light-, and medium-bombers and fightgers. There were also serious shortages of technical personnel, construction units, and aviation fuel. Aid to the Allies would deplete American inventories and increase existing deficiencies. Many army combat units would have to go into battle at about half their normal effectiveness due to the lack of modern weapons and munitions. Finally, the JLPC noted that the required revision of mobilization plan Cogwheel would force changes in Offtackle if mobilization and operations plans were to be mutually supporting." -American War Plans 1945-1950, pg 118-119.

In the face of the above difficulties, the Joint Chiefs ultimately decided to retain as a emergency war plan until a new plan (which would become Dropshot) could be drafted. As such, it's would serve merely as a guideline for the broad strokes of operations for the American military and not a detailed war plan or even deployment schedule.
 

RousseauX

Donor
Hawks in the American military actually advocated a preemptive nuclear strike on the Soviet Union immediately after WW2 ended. From a realpolitik point of view, America maintaining a nuclear monopoly was actually an extremely logical position. What do you think a Genghis Khan, Napoleon, or Hitler would have done?
The empires of Genghis Khan, Napoleon, and Hitler lie in the dustbins of history: following their policies is dumb
 

RousseauX

Donor
If the USSR tested a nuke, they might still be way behind in the number of nukes and the means to deliver them. So after a single test, the US could theoretically nuke Moscow without fearing a nuclear counterattack.

I do agree that the US would be very hesitant to do so.

As a pure thought experiment, let's say the USSR tests in 1949 as in OTL in defiance of the ban. The US makes the grave decision and nukes Moscow justifying it as an act of self defense because the test is a declaration of war. The USSR is ordered to surrender unconditionally or more attacks will follow.

What happens next?
The USSR has to invade something in Europe at this point

The lesson learned is that the next round of nuclear programs has to be a lot more secret
 
Yes. That long. Citing Offtackle doesn't do us very much good, since as late as November 1949 the US lacked the forces and the in place logistics to execute it.

Even in the documents I linked the lack of some resources are displayed. However, why would bomb components be sent via rail and sea when in planning documents they were to be sent via air with B-29's (and assembly teams with C-54's)?
 
Israel has basically declared the same monopoly of nuclear weapons in the Middle East and routinely has carried out pre-emptive conventional strikes against Iraq, Iran, and Syria along with electronic attacks (such as worms and viruses on computer networks) to slow down others attempts at atomic weapons. Has been moderately successful, as Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with atomic weapons and that nation poses little threat to Israel.
 

RousseauX

Donor
Israel has basically declared the same monopoly of nuclear weapons in the Middle East and routinely has carried out pre-emptive conventional strikes against Iraq, Iran, and Syria along with electronic attacks (such as worms and viruses on computer networks) to slow down others attempts at atomic weapons. Has been moderately successful, as Pakistan is the only Muslim nation with atomic weapons and that nation poses little threat to Israel.
Israel is not capable of doing the same to Iran and it knows it

that's why the iranian nuclear deal is huge deal to Israel: it means the US wouldn't participate in a strike on Iran and the Israelis don't have the assets to do it themselves
 
To quote an old post of mine:

***

I suggest that people here read pp. 102-3 (available online) of George H. Quester, *Nuclear Monopoly.* https://books.google.com/books?id=OqGXS1spsrcC&pg=PA102
Quester points out the paradox that "those who feared Soviet future intentions the most, who most would see war as inevitable sooner or later, would be more hesitant to threaten a preventive war before larger American nuclear forces were ready." These people circa 1948 thought that Stalin very possibly would *already* start a war even while the US had a nuclear monopoly because he was counting on his superiority in conventional forces and would callously accept the danger of a few nuclear bombs being dropped on the USSR because he supposedly thought the USSR could survive the loss of a major city or two and still prevail.

From this point of view, the objective was *not* to prevent the USSR from getting the bomb; it was for the US to develop a sufficiently overwhelming nuclear superiority to *defeat* the USSR decisively, even after the Soviets had the bomb. That's why a preventive war was actually much more likely after the huge US Korean War build-up (both in nuclear weapons and in bombers, and in conventional forces as well) than in 1945-49. Thus, in the late 1940's it was people like Curtis Le May who urged a *delay* in preventive war; it was an idealist like Bertrand Russell who suggested acting immediately:

"Someone like Bertrand Russell, who feared the pain of nuclear war first and foremost, would be much more ready to entertain thoughts of applying that pain to Stalin, to keep him from acquiring his own force of painful weapons. For those of this world outlook, even a few dozen American atomic bombs, and the bombers to deliver them, were enough, and it would hardly be important to recover each bomber after it had inflicted a repetition of Hiroshima on a Soviet city.

"But most Air Force generals and other military planners in the United States were, by morality or by habit, disinclined to talk about war-fighting as the mere imposition of pain. If it was instead the crippling of the enemy's *ability* to fight, a much larger venture was required, with more bombs and more bombers, with repeated missions, and hence greater concerns about the hazards of Soviet air defenses, and about the recovery of US bombers.

"Here we come back closer to the classic calculations of preventive war speculation, whether "now" would be the time to wage war with a better total chance of winning, or whether the optimal time was a decade or two later. Unless one had *all* the military components in line for such a preventive war, the advantage might still rest with waiting.."

Once again, I think people are asking about preventive war *in the wrong era*--it was much more likely in say, 1953-4 (at least if Stalin had lived and the Korean war showed no signs of ending, etc.) when the overall advantage of the US over the USSR was much greater than it was in 1949 despite the Soviet development of nuclear weapons.

***

To put this in perspective: as late as 1947, the US had "perhaps seven" nuclear bombs. https://books.google.com/books?id=8NQMsSZ8O4wC&pg=PA161 That's hardly enough to dictate terms to the rest of the world, especially the USSR...
 

marathag

Banned
In a USA monopoly, I have to imagine De Gaulle would have accelerated his program so France would be testing H bombs by the early 1950s.

It wasn't a matter of will, but reality.
I can't see the Republic developing Atomic weapons any sooner than OTL. France just didn't have the resources, unless they go the DPRK method and let the peasants eat grass from time to time.
 

marathag

Banned
Of course in 1950 the MiG-15 could shoot it down so the window is very small.

1st and 2nd Gen USAF aircraft did really badly at B-36 intercepts, and yes, including the F-86. The B-36 was far more maneuverable than the jets of that era, flying in Coffin Corner, stalls and spins just around the corner
 
1st and 2nd Gen USAF aircraft did really badly at B-36 intercepts, and yes, including the F-86. The B-36 was far more maneuverable than the jets of that era, flying in Coffin Corner, stalls and spins just around the corner
True but when the result of not intercepting a B-36 is a destroyed city or base then exchanging a dozen MiGs for a B-36 is a good outcome for the Russians
 

marathag

Banned
True but when the result of not intercepting a B-36 is a destroyed city or base then exchanging a dozen MiGs for a B-36 is a good outcome for the Russians

All the desire to save a city won't allow your MiG not to spin out in trying hard to get a firing solution for your guns

B-36 Featherweights flew at 59,000, while the others flew at 52,000

He[Colonel John Lowery,F-86 plot in Korea with the 334 FIS] described something I have not yet seen, “coffin corner.” He described it this way:

"As you climb above 20,000 feet your stall speed goes with you. So at 45,000 feet, 0.8 Mach, you're at 205 indicated and your stall speed might be 175. Now you're getting to 51,000 feet, and 0.8 Mach is 185 indicated, and your stall speed is 175. It's like flying on the edge of a ball bearing and you're just ready to fall off at any moment."

...
As a side note, during late 1952, twenty percent of Sabre victories over the MiG-15 occurred without firing a shot. During the last four months of 1952, thirty-two MiGs went into sudden and uncontrollable spins while being chased. Only two pilots were able to recover. The rest ejected or crashed. It took until 1953 for the MiG pilots to better acquit themselves to handle these spins.
http://www.talkingproud.us/Military/MiGAlley/MiGAlley/F86PilotStories.html
 
All the desire to save a city won't allow your MiG not to spin out in trying hard to get a firing solution for your guns

B-36 Featherweights flew at 59,000, while the others flew at 52,000

He[Colonel John Lowery,F-86 plot in Korea with the 334 FIS] described something I have not yet seen, “coffin corner.” He described it this way:

"As you climb above 20,000 feet your stall speed goes with you. So at 45,000 feet, 0.8 Mach, you're at 205 indicated and your stall speed might be 175. Now you're getting to 51,000 feet, and 0.8 Mach is 185 indicated, and your stall speed is 175. It's like flying on the edge of a ball bearing and you're just ready to fall off at any moment."
...
As a side note, during late 1952, twenty percent of Sabre victories over the MiG-15 occurred without firing a shot. During the last four months of 1952, thirty-two MiGs went into sudden and uncontrollable spins while being chased. Only two pilots were able to recover. The rest ejected or crashed. It took until 1953 for the MiG pilots to better acquit themselves to handle these spins.
http://www.talkingproud.us/Military/MiGAlley/MiGAlley/F86PilotStories.html
By the time featherweight B-36 were in service the Soviets had the MiG-17 and almost had the MiG-19
 
But that doesn't help MiG-15s spinning out at 45-50,000 feet, does it?
No but as the B-36B was the main B-36 variant when the MiG-15 was the primary Soviet fighter and the service ceiling on that (according to the National Museum of the US Air Force website) was only 42,500 ft.

Even the B-36H Featherweight could only make 47,000 ft.

Reconnaissance versions flew much higher
 
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