Trying to Please Everyone: Or Converting multiple Pop Culture Utopias into a Timeline.

[Nintendogamemaster]

Zelda: Breath of the Wild has more music, more traditional dungeons, additional runes that are unlocked later in the game, and weapons with more durability.
Metroid: Other M either has a different story or is cancelled.
Kid Icarus: More 2D Kid Icarus games are developed.
Fire Emblem:

• More Fire Emblem games are brought to the West, starting with Genealogy of the Holy War.
• Due to (presumed) advances in LGBT rights, more Fire Emblem games have same sex marriage.
• Fire Emblem: Fates has a better map and story.
• In general, the Fire Emblem series is more popular among the nerd community.

Hm, kinda iffy about the Metroid one, even if I wasnt fond of Samus characterization, then again pheraps some things could be changed on that game

About FE I can see Awakening starting it by pulling Tharja and Gregor as options for both genders, Fates pull it} up further by putting Felicia, Jakob, Soleil, Rhajat and Niles. (Also to your ideas I would add allowing Scarlet to survive in Revelation)

Agree so much on the Kid Icarus one and Im ok with the Zelda one

Which were your Smash ideas?

 

[Marco Incognito]

What happens to Nintendo's other franchises like Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, or Super Smash Bros? I might be able to offer some suggestions regarding them.

Zelda goes with the original idea and involves two time periods of the past and a futuristic setting. Gino sort being a vampire. Zelda 3 being an RPG. Another animated series, one by Imagi. Ocarina of Time having many more features. The "Triforce Trilogy" of three games representing each part. Many more features in the equivalent of Breath of the Wild.

A Metroid 64 game is released. An animated series. A different Metroid Prime with Jennifer Hale voicing. A very different version of Echoes and Metroid Fusion. An Archie Comics series. A 3Ds game. Other M at this point is still up in the air if its exists or is altered or butterflied away.

An earlier Kid Icarus sequel. Fire Emblem I'll need to do more research on first but its' being brought over from game one. Super Smash Bros I outright refuse to reveal yet since its subject to change given how different all the franchises within it will be.

 

[Marco Incognito]

Nice. How is democratic China ITTL? Is it a successful liberal democracy or is it something like OTL post-Soviet countries were they’re still trying to recover and improve while still having some problems?

Everytime a nation goes Democratic suddenly they tend to be rife with corruption and that will happen here, so its more Post USSR and will be engaged in an armed conflict with the UK in 1997 over Hong Kong.

 

[erictom333]

Which were your Smash ideas?

They mostly concern the roster. For example, Melee will have fewer clone characters, instead opting for more different characters like Wario, Pit, and Takamaru.

 

[Nintendogamemaster]

They mostly concern the roster. For example, Melee will have fewer clone characters, instead opting for more different characters like Wario, Pit, and Takamaru.

Like that idea, so far I though on some characters that could get introduced earlier, so far I though on this, not sure what you think:

Smash 64:
Peach
Zelda
Bowser

Smash Bros Melee (Likely doesnt has Dr. Mario or Young Link, these rather being alternate costumes):
Toad
Sonic
Wario
Pit
Takemaru
Wolf
Meta Knight
Lucas
Diddy Kong

Smash Bros Brawl:
Mega Man
Pac Man
Waluigi
Princess Daisy
Tails
Knuckles
K. Rool

Smash Bros 4:
Simon Belmont
Dr. Eggman
Shadow (As Unlockable)
Banjo
Dixie Kong
Ryu
Petey Piranha (gets upgraded from boss to playable)
Porky Minch (same than Petey)
Ridley (same than the previous ones)
Geno (Likely as DLC but fully in game on the next one)

Smash Bros Ultimate:
Pauline
King Boo
Captain Syrup
Gruntilda
Terry Bogard (As in base game instead of DLC)
Kazuya Miishima (As in base game instead of DLC)
Sepphiroth (As fully in game instead of DLC)
Conker (Likely as DLC)
Mallow (likely as DLC)

 

[TheDetailer]

Everytime a nation goes Democratic suddenly they tend to be rife with corruption and that will happen here, so its more Post USSR and will be engaged in an armed conflict with the UK in 1997 over Hong Kong.

I can easily imagine a separate alternate history timeline where China went democratic because of the Tianneman Square protests, and has a similar history to modern Russia. Corruption, poverty, depression, discrimination, militarism, etc. It would be more open like IOTL Russia, but still not in a great place when it comes to freedom, democracy, and peace.

 

[Nicholas Leo]

DM me but I just might derail them as I’m going with the show’s original idea Disney vetoed. And that is that Luz is basically in the afterlife.

Will Belos be a maleovlent version of God then ITTL or no?

 

[Marco Incognito]

Will Belos be a maleovlent version of God then ITTL or no?

Closer to Satan

 

[erictom333]

Like that idea, so far I though on some characters that could get introduced earlier, so far I though on this, not sure what you think:

Smash 64:
Peach
Zelda
Bowser

Honestly not sure if SSB64 should have any more characters from existing series. However, it might be possible to bring Marth in earlier, possibly replacing Jigglypuff.

Smash Bros Melee (Likely doesnt has Dr. Mario or Young Link, these rather being alternate costumes):
Toad

Wouldn't have enough content for a full moveset until Captain Toad comes out, unless there's a game starring Toad earlier.

Sonic
Wario
Pit

Acceptable.

Takemaru

Acceptable if and only if The Mysterious Murasame Castle comes over to the West.

Wolf

Maybe as a replacement for Falco (Fox, Falco and Wolf are all rather similar).

Meta Knight
Lucas
Diddy Kong

Acceptable.

Smash Bros Brawl:
Mega Man
Pac Man

Mega Man is fine. Pac Man is IMO poorly suited for Smash, so unless there's a game ITTL to buff out his moveset without resorting to other Namco titles he should be scrapped.

Waluigi
Princess Daisy

Probably not both at the same time: their movesets would mostly involve similar content from the Mario spinoff games. Also, you stated Wapeach would debut in Mario Tennis 64 instead of Daisy taking her place, so Daisy would be even worse suited than Waluigi ITTL unless Daisy gets her own game.

Tails
Knuckles

Unsure, although given modern Sonic is a lot better off TTL it could work.

K. Rool

Probably workable.

Smash Bros 4:
Simon Belmont
Dr. Eggman

Acceptable, although see above regarding Eggman.

Shadow (As Unlockable)

Not sure.

Banjo

Assuming Rare's relationship with Nintendo is a lot better, I could see Banjo-Kazooie in Smash as early as Melee.

Dixie Kong

Not sure.

Ryu

Acceptable.

Petey Piranha (gets upgraded from boss to playable)
Porky Minch (same than Petey)
Ridley (same than the previous ones)

Ridley is okay. Petey Piranha and Porky Minch would be best to stay as bosses. If you do want another representative from the Mother series, consider Ninten from the original Mother.

Geno (Likely as DLC but fully in game on the next one)

If Super Mario RPG spawns direct sequels (instead of giving way to Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi as OTL), then Geno could get in even earlier. Otherwise, he'll never make it.
This would require Square Enix's relationship with Nintendo to be better, though.

Smash Bros Ultimate:
Pauline

Depends on how much of a moveset she has; given your complete retconning of Donkey Kong, I don't think she has much of a chance.

King Boo
Captain Syrup
Gruntilda

Captain Syrup could work; the other two would best stay bosses.

Terry Bogard (As in base game instead of DLC)
Kazuya Miishima (As in base game instead of DLC)

Plausible, although they aren't the best picks for each series. I'd have chosen Mai Shiranui (censored appropriately) and Heihachi, respectively.

Sepphiroth (As fully in game instead of DLC)

See Geno regarding Square Enix' relationship with Nintendo.

Conker (Likely as DLC)

Not sure.

Mallow (likely as DLC)

See Geno.
Other suggestions I'd make would be replacing Roy with Sigurd (FE6, where Roy debuted, was still in development when Melee released; Sigurd from FE4 would be a safer pick), and delaying Corrin to SSBU for similar reasons.

 

[Nintendogamemaster]

Honestly not sure if SSB64 should have any more characters from existing series. However, it might be possible to bring Marth in earlier, possibly replacing Jigglypuff.

Wouldn't have enough content for a full moveset until Captain Toad comes out, unless there's a game starring Toad earlier.

Acceptable.

Acceptable if and only if The Mysterious Murasame Castle comes over to the West.

Maybe as a replacement for Falco (Fox, Falco and Wolf are all rather similar).

Acceptable.

Mega Man is fine. Pac Man is IMO poorly suited for Smash, so unless there's a game ITTL to buff out his moveset without resorting to other Namco titles he should be scrapped.

Probably not both at the same time: their movesets would mostly involve similar content from the Mario spinoff games. Also, you stated Wapeach would debut in Mario Tennis 64 instead of Daisy taking her place, so Daisy would be even worse suited than Waluigi ITTL unless Daisy gets her own game.

Unsure, although given modern Sonic is a lot better off TTL it could work.

Probably workable.

Acceptable, although see above regarding Eggman.

Not sure.

Assuming Rare's relationship with Nintendo is a lot better, I could see Banjo-Kazooie in Smash as early as Melee.

Not sure.

Acceptable.

Ridley is okay. Petey Piranha and Porky Minch would be best to stay as bosses. If you do want another representative from the Mother series, consider Ninten from the original Mother.

If Super Mario RPG spawns direct sequels (instead of giving way to Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi as OTL), then Geno could get in even earlier. Otherwise, he'll never make it.
This would require Square Enix's relationship with Nintendo to be better, though.

Depends on how much of a moveset she has; given your complete retconning of Donkey Kong, I don't think she has much of a chance.

Captain Syrup could work; the other two would best stay bosses.

Plausible, although they aren't the best picks for each series. I'd have chosen Mai Shiranui (censored appropriately) and Heihachi, respectively.

See Geno regarding Square Enix' relationship with Nintendo.

Not sure.

See Geno.
Other suggestions I'd make would be replacing Roy with Sigurd (FE6, where Roy debuted, was still in development when Melee released; Sigurd from FE4 would be a safer pick), and delaying Corrin to SSBU for similar reasons.

There have been some hacks of Smash 64 that are able to add more characters, so I dont see why not.

Smash Bros Crusade did a Toad moveset before the relase of Captain Toad using elements from Kart games and such, so I can see him viable during Melee.

Considering this is a pop-culture utopia, I can imagine Square Enix, Rare and Nintendo relationship is better than in OTL.

Not sure about replacing Roy with Sigurd.

Maybe Mai and Heihachi get in as DLC.

For bosses I would suggest some classic Mario villains that dont have enough moveset material, such as Wart or Tatanga. (Petey, Syrup and Gruntilda do have moveset material), or maybe some RPG villains (Count Bleck comes to mind)

 

[TheDetailer]

This might be a personal question, but are there any things that are getting butterflied ITTL that you feel sad/somber-feeling to see go Marco?

 

[Marco Incognito]

Since it's been talked about here's a tentative list. The collaboration with Nintendo and Sony went through so there's a bit more power which limited many of Sakurai's OTL ideas. Includes Voice clips and Final Smashes(conceived back then but called Trump Cards or Last Resort), and Palette Swaps as essentially Echo fighters.

Super Smash Bros 64
Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Link
Samus Aran
Yoshi
Kirby
King DeDeDe
Fox McCloud(Falco, Peppy and Slippy Palette swaps)
Pikachu
Mewtwo(replaces Jigglypuff)
Captain Falcon
Ness
Marth

Melee(New Characters Only)
This version has all the characters from the first game return. It includes Princess Peach, Solid Snake, Sonic(both proposed but not included due to time constraints), Ice Climbers, Mr.Game & Watch, Wario, Ayumi Tachibana(thanks to the games being released outside of Japan), James Bond(with Goldeneye mechanics and Echo Fighters of the various actors). Echo Fighters ITTL include Dr.Mario, Lucas, and young Link. Assist Trophies and Pokeballs are introduced. The Game is up to 8 players(another thing cut).

Brawl
In addition to bringing everyone back. Butterflying away the “Everyone is Here” line as that’s standard for the series. New characters include Diddy and Dixie together as a team like the ice climbers and the Donkey Kong country series. Geno. Toon Zelda as an echo fighter(turns into Tetra instead of Sheik). Wolf as an echo fighter. Pac-Man, the Villager and the Miis(planned but held off).
3DS/Wii
Subject to be released for different consoles. Would likely include Heihachi Mishima and Sora as characters.

Ultimate
Will have more third party characters. Embracing its celebration of gaming as a whole. Expect Sans, Cuphead, Doom Guy and Masterchirf to be playable.

 

[Marco Incognito]

This might be a personal question, but are there any things that are getting butterflied ITTL that you feel sad/somber-feeling to see go Marco?

At first sure though I’ve felt more willing to butterfly things away. The Spider-Man trilogy and Dark Knight trilogy for example will not survive but it’s balanced out in this universe by other films. I do try to save franchises if I can. Working on 1990 in Anime I will say butterflying away Samurai Pizza Cats due to it being a Tatsunoko production hurts a little despite having never seen it. Though I feel that the year by year approach will reveal more and more things being butterflied. I was born in 1994 so past that point I do wonder if big chunks of my childhood will survive.

 

[TheDetailer]

At first sure though I’ve felt more willing to butterfly things away. The Spider-Man trilogy and Dark Knight trilogy for example will not survive but it’s balanced out in this universe by other films. I do try to save franchises if I can. Working on 1990 in Anime I will say butterflying away Samurai Pizza Cats due to it being a Tatsunoko production hurts a little despite having never seen it. Though I feel that the year by year approach will reveal more and more things being butterflied. I was born in 1994 so past that point I do wonder if big chunks of my childhood will survive.

Hopefully they will. Also yes I definitely agree on the Spider-Man and Dark Knight trilogy films, hopefully bits and pieces of them survive and make it into other films ITTL on the bright side as a compromise.

 

[Marco Incognito]

Hopefully they will. Also yes I definitely agree on the Spider-Man and Dark Knight trilogy films, hopefully bits and pieces of them survive and make it into other films ITTL on the bright side as a compromise.

What I’ve discovered. Especially when it comes to superhero movies. Is most of the films use a lot of script parts from unmade earlier movies. Raimi’s Spider-Man from James Cameron’s unmade 1994 Spider-Man and Burton’s Batman from a 1980 Batman film script.

 

[TheDetailer]

What happened to the Hays Code (1934-1968) ITTL? Does it still exist or not?

 

[Marco Incognito]

What happened to the Hays Code (1934-1968) ITTL? Does it still exist or not?

It does not.

 

[TheDetailer]

It does not.

Good stuff! Coincidentally that concept was being talked about on the “ TL Ideas you have, but lack the wherewithal to execute” thread.

Dreams are made in Hollywood
The hayes code never exist in America, letting movies flourish in showing and discussing all sorts of topics starting a second Renaissance of artistic innovation. It could somehow become the most liberal state earlier.

It would probably have incredible cinematography that is popular to this day.

Maybe an earlier Civil Rights period for both the black and LGBTQ+ community as well?

Movies exposing the discrimination crimes against minorities and homosexuals could help change public opinion against them earlier.

Assuming someone bothers to shoot those movies in the first place. Or that the reaction of the public is something other than "well, they deserved it".
Remember, the POD is that "now those movies won't be censored," not that "directors will now feel the compelling need to make documentaries exposing minority abuse."

Yeah, there could be a apathetic response of the common discrimination that existed or probably call it communist propaganda. Worse-case scenario, a southerner director makes a 2nd "Birth of A Nation" that's even inspires more KKK members to join.

 

[TheDetailer]

Two questions;

1. What happens to Vincent Van Gogh ITTL? Does he still die from a gunshot wound, or does he live a better life and get a happy ending?
2. Does the 2007-2008 Writers Strike still happen? If it does not then how is it prevented?

 

[Marco Incognito]

Two questions;

1. What happens to Vincent Van Gogh ITTL? Does he still die from a gunshot wound, or does he live a better life and get a happy ending?

Originally I had him live longer. While the modern idea is he was unappreciated in his own time. He was actually basically up and coming when he died. Popular artists wrote about him in a “there’s this guy. Not many people know him but he’s great”. And then he died. Originally it was thought suicide but new evidence suggests some kids were playing with a gun. He was shot and didn’t want them to get in trouble so he lied and said he tried to kill himself. So naturally he’d live and become popular. However since I put this in after 1900 he may remain dead. Though I personally would butterfly his death away.

2. Does the 2007-2008 Writers Strike still happen? If it does not then how is it prevented?

It does not. Though I’m not sure how beyond negotiations it would be prevented. This does have huge repercussions such as Justice League Mortals releasing and Supernatural never introducing popular character Castiel(the writers wanted Sam to save Dean but the strike led to a rewrite where Castiel was introduced to pull him out of hell). This in turn butterflies away the infamous “Freaks” speech in Riverdale as that was inspired by comments made by Jensen Ackles in response to Castiel and Dean in the finale.