Top Locomotives Never Built

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Southern Railroad MMs-1 2-8-2+2-8-2 Garratt

The Ratholde Division of the Southern was always a major bottleneck for its dire tunnel and curvature issues. The issue went beyond this, however, as the Southern was also limited to the size of the locomotives able to operate the line due to asphyxiation and heat problems. In most cases, only the smallest 2-8-2 Mikados in freight service and 4-6-2 Pacifics for passenger trains could be used. But things changed when in the 1930s, ALCO approached the Southern with the idea of constructing a garratt, which ALCO had the license for from Beyer-Peacock & Company, and both companies worked with the Southern to design them. Much like several Garratts built around the same time for Canadian National, these were mainly to see if they worked. However, the garratt worked wonders thanks to its ability to run just as well back-first, and several more were operated until diesels eventually arrived. Today, three are preserved with one, #7508, working on the famous steam program from her hometown in Lexington, KY.

The South African Railways GE Garratt, on which the MMs-1 was heavily based.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

SNCF 230-01 Class 4-6-0s

The Second World War had naturally left France's network in shambles, and unable to do much at all without help from the US and UK. However the light at the end of the tunnel would come soon, as would be proven by the great mind of Andre Chapelon. He had become famous in the industrial world for his ability to make a steam engine that was still strong and thermally efficient despite size. As such, he was called on when the SNCF started work to modernize its steam fleet, knowing that the desired electrification would take decades at least.

This was his first design, a 4-6-0 meant for speeds up to 155 mph. Of course, the track were too weak to allow it at first. But once able to, the 230-01 proved itself more than capable. For this reason, two are preserved. With one, 230-10 at the Cité du Train in Mulhouse.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Pennsylvania Railroad Class M2 2-8-4 "Juniata"

After the success of the R3 Class 4-8-4 on fast passenger service, the Pennsy thought of a possible engine to replace, or at least supplement the M1 Mountains on fast freight. Lima's answer was design this engine. Which was specifically envisioned as sharing as many parts with the R3 as possible. However, the bioler was based more off that of the I1 Decapod rather than the M1 Mountain. They were even numbered

In the end, these engines did not prove to be anywhere as numerous as the M1s, and only 120 were built. However, they still were major speed demons and handled numerous fast freights over the Ft. Wayne Division in particular. It is even said the Andre Chapelon based the aspects of both this engine and the R3 to create the engines he built for use in Brazil in 1948. Regardless, several are preserved including #7405 in operation for PRR excursions.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

@TheMann

Any other ideas?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Andre Chapelon's SNCF Standards
With the success of the 230 4-6-0s, Andre Chapelon was commissioned to build more steam engines. Natually he complied and went for efficient, powerful machines with interchangeable parts galore. In addition, all of them carried the same ten-wheel tender design. Today, numerous examples of the types are preserved. Either in operation, or with examples of all four of them in the Cité du Train in Mulhouse.

SNCF 242-01 Class 4-8-4s

Built for mixed-traffic service, these engines were usually operated on fast, long passenger trains, and remained such until the eventual era of electrification. These machines were also the first, and were mainly inspired by other famous 4-8-4s like the Pennsylvania Railroad R3 and LMS Conqueror.

SNCF 251-01 Class 2-10-4s

Built for heavy freight, this engine type was among the last French steamers to ever be retired.

SNCF 241-01 Class 2-8-4s

A fast freight engine which was also capable of high speeds and horsepower.

SNCF 232-01 Class 4-6-4s

A speed demon capable of 150 mph. This engines was the main power for express trains that needed speed, but were too large for the 230-01 Class 4-6-0s.

SNCF 231-01 Class 4-6-2Ts
These suburban tanks were built as singe-man operated oil burners. They were alright, but still did not have the same impact as other engines.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

The Rio Grande too went south, building all the way from Pueblo, Colorado, to Amarillo, Texas, beginning operations on this route in 1995.

What was the reason for this?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Santa Fe 6100 Class 6-4-4-4

During most of the steam era, the Santa Fe operated most of its passenger trains with streamlined Hudsons and Northerns. These engines became famous for their two-tone blue paint schemes, which led to their nicknames "The Blue Geese". Either way, they would eventually be eclipsed by ATSF's diesels with their red and silver "warbonnet" garb. However, the steamers also had their own warbonnet member in the day. Though she was unfortunately too little too late for that.

In 1945, Baldwin proposed to Santa Fe the idea of a Cab-Forward Duplex for use on long-distance trains. The Santa Fe had to be persuaded heavily in favor of attempting the design. But they agreed anyway. Unlike other railroads at the time, the passenger train was a robust business for them thanks to their revised advertising strategies. So in Santa Fe's mind, there was no harm in it.

However, the 6100 was not a big success. As such, it was relegated to the flatter Midwest portions of the network. Nonetheless, the "War Steamer" as the lone 6100 was called would be preserved at Marceline, MO.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Thought I would add some supplementary material regarding the designs of Andre Chapelon. Since it's part of a possible US TL where WW2 is either butterflied or has a different aggressor.

After SNCF rejects his ideas, Chapelon decides to try and test his ideas in the Anglosphere world. Eventually finding the most success on the LMS in Britain, where he and William Stanier built the "Conqueror" 4-8-4s for the LMS' London to Glasgow line. By the time the war was over, the French rail lines were in shambles. With the need for new locomotives, Chapelon turned to Lima in the US, and North British in the UK to help him build several replacement locomotives for use in his native France. The first of these designs to be officially built was a redesign of his great 240P Class 4-8-0, which was now called the 240-01 Class. From there he just kept going, ensuring that all non-electrified lines in France would be graced with his designs.

France was not the only nation to receive his designs. Under his supervision, both Lima and North British would use his designs for other engines on other world railroads. Lima took his 241 2-8-4 and 242 4-8-4. Then after replacing the hook and buffers with knickle couplers and adding cowcatchers and headlights, send several 241s and 242s to China, Korea, and Brazil. As the former's network had been decimated by Japan and Russia to the point of nationalization. Whereas the latter was undergoing an effort to trying and standardize and expand most of its rail network to 4ft 8.5 in gauge. North British would build examples of Chapelon's designs for France itself. As well as their colonies in North Africa and in Italy.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

A little something I told @WaterproofPotatoes about.

Great Western Railway 8000 "Cathedral" Class 4-8-0

During the 1920s and 1930s, Britain's relative isolation from the turmoils of continental Europe allowed for major innovations in business. Railways were far from an exception, and the 1930s especially would be remembered by British railways as the era of innovation in terms of both locomotives and infrastructure.

However, the Great Western Railway was not quite as progressive as the other railways. While the LMS and LNER began embracing eight-coupled locomotives on express passenger services, the GWR continued to be a railway of 4-6-0s. However, several attempts did begin to be made at larger engines as it became clear that not even the Castles would remain the workhorses they were forever. Ultimately deciding to name them after Cathedrals, like what was originally planned for the King Class.

At first, the GWR decided to try and create a series of Pacifics with this name. However, Collet found that a 4-8-0 would have better adhesion, and revised the design accordingly. The first of these new Cathedrals, Exeter Cathedral, rolled out in 1932. The result was one of the strongest steam engines ever built for the GWR. Not to mention one that had fewer weight issues than the Super-Castles of 1927. These locomotives would also be distinct in that among the three 4-8-0 tender designs built for domestic use in Britain (the others being the LNER Gresley T2 and Southern Maunsell S16), this was the only one built purely for passenger service while the others were largely freight engines.

The Cathedrals would proudly serve the GWR mainline from the 1930s until eventual retirement in the 1960s. Today, the first, #8000 Exeter Cathedral, is preserved operational at the Didcot Railway Centre. Whereas #8012, Westminster Abbey, is preserved on display in the National Collection at York.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Special thanks to @WaterproofPotatoes and @Confederate Liberal for their support in recent times.

London, Midland, & Scottish 10P "Conqueror" Class 4-8-4

The 1930s and 1940s has been defined as many a Briton as the time of peace. While largely free from the turmoil of Continental Europe, the UK's railways found themselves having plenty of time to devote to advancing their respective technologies to well beyond what was considered the norm. Many railroads made plans for electrification, dramatically expanded the loading gauges of their lines, and often squabbled with American railroads over whose passenger trains were better.

During this time, the two rivalries that would define British railroading until the end of steam took place. The big one was the race north to Scotland. Here, the London, Midland, & Scottish (LMS) and London North Eastern (LNER) fought tooth and nail for traffic from London north to Glasgow. As such, the two railroads gave borderline free reign to their respective locomotive designers, Sir William Stanier of the LMS and Sir Nigel Gresley of the LNER. Known for their staunch opinions regarding what an excellent locomotive, the two generally followed similar lines of thought at first. The two started out using various 4-6-2s, both streamlined and otherwise. This eventually evolved into using 4-6-4s, in the form of the Stanier 9Ps and the Gresley W2s. Both even tried using 2-8-2s, namely the Gresley P2s and Stanier 8Ps.

Then in 1937, the LNER introduced what is widely considered Gresley's magmum opus, the I1 Class Mountain type. The moment it was operated, few thought anything larger could be made. After all, Gresley had specifically built it in a way that would make sure it stayed in the LNER's loading gauge. However, Stanier quickly proved these speakers wrong with his response. These 4-8-4 engines, appropriately named "Conquerors", these engines were named after the British Empire's many victories in wars. They were also able to quickly give the I1s a run for their money.

Today, #6323 Waterloo is on display in the National Collection. Whereas #6330 Jutland is out on mainline tours alot.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

@TheMann had recommended that I try my own hand at a diesel and/or electric. So here it is.

GE ECT-01

During the suburban boom of the late 1940s and 1950s, the interurbans managed to come back by working with city counsels to build entire communities around new trolley terminals. In the city itself however, the big railroads found themselves struggling to both attract commuters and making the operation of suburban trains affordable. This was General Electric's solution, fusing the classic characteristics of EMUs, with a new sleeker semi-streamlined appearance.

The end result, the ECT-01 (Electric Consolidated Train 01), was almost immediately first used by the Illinois Central Railroad's commuters. Then, the Pennsylvania decided on also adapting these EMUs for use on their own stopping passenger trains. However, they would see the most success out west on the Southern Pacific's commuter service in the Bay Area. As part of the SP's famously ambitious electrification program, the EMUs were bought to replace the 4-6-2 steamers on commuter trains. Out west, the EMUs would prove to be the key evolutionary part of the CAHSR system when then-governor Ronald Reagan agreed to subsidize the electrification of SP's Central Valley route and operation of these units.

Today, one of the IC units is preserved at the Illinois Railroad Museum. Whereas one of the SP units, #E400, is still in operation along some of the SP's famous steamers like GS-4 #4449, MT-4 #4354, and AC-11 #4274.

 

[SadSprinter]

Are the trains in this thread made up or real trains that were planned and never built?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Are the trains in this thread made up or real trains that were planned and never built?

They can be real proposals or your own ideas. If it wasn't built at all in real life, it's fair game.

 

[SadSprinter]

London Underground 2003 Stock Trains

The construction of the Chelsea to Hackney Line in 2001, London's second South West-North East rail corridor to a mainline standard, required a break in design from the standard "Tube" train to a modern, metro express train designed to take advantage of the high speeds on long, straight sections of tunnel and enjoy the larger loading guage.

Development on what would become the 2003 stock trains started in the early 2000s, with three companies; Alstom (formally Meto-Cammell/GEC Alsthom), Siemens and Bombardier each competing to produce technical specifications for the new trains. Invitations to tender started in 2001 for the purchase of 40 8 car trainsets. Bombardier produced a train that would also act as a replacement for the aging D and C stock trains on the Sub-Surface Lines which bore a similar loading gauge to the Chelsea to Hackney, while Alstom's train would draw on designs for the class 341 trains built for CrossRail.

In the event, Alstom won the contract. Its production lines just quieting down from the production of the class 341s, its former Metro-Cammell plant in Washwood Heath, Birmingham once again got busy producing London's new generation of Underground trains. Aesthetically, the 2003 stock trains drew a lot in comparison from the class 458 "Junipers" used on Network SouthEast's South Western Lines sub sector, with a slanted front and vertically positioned headlights on the sides of the train's frontage. Drive and traction equipment came from the former GEC works in Trafford Park, Manchester, and body shells were imported from Alstom's Barcelona plant just like the 1995 stock trains had been.

Final assembly took place in Washwood Heath, and the first production set rolled off the production line in August of 2004, where it would begin testing on the sub-surface lines until the first phase of the C2H line-Victoria to Angel would open in January 2004. The fleet were allocated to the Battersea Stewarts Lane and Lea Marshes deopt in South and East London respectively.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Chicago, Rock Island, and Pacific T-32 Class 4-6-0

The Rock Island Line, contrary to what the suggested, was not that mighty. For much of its existence, it was often dwarfed by larger neighbors, and largely relied on its relationship with Southern Pacific to survive in the long term. Nonetheless, it did manage to have its own ways of trying to at least stand up to its bigger neighbors. Among these was by offering the best possible quality of passenger services. Though that was still often thanks its relationship with Southern Pacific.

Then during a meeting one day, several Rock Island officials noticed something. They had one thing their rival the Santa Fe lacked; a Twin Cities - Kansas City main line. That, and it was more direct than the only other such route, the Chicago Great Western. Here, the Rock Island decided it was time to put their best foot forward on proving their worth as a legitimate passenger carrier. In June 1933, the company announced intentions to operate a Twin Cities - Kansas City express train service via Des Moines, IA. Further investigation led to the Rock deciding they could also b

In order to create the train, now called the Corn Belt Rocket, Rock Island ordered several streamlined stainless steel coaches in a silver and red with white lining. To operate these trains, the Rock Island took a rather eccentric approah when the met with French-born mechanical engineer Andrew Chapelon. Under their collaboration, Chapelon decided that for these trains, there should be an exceptionally eccentric locomotive design.

The T-32 was the final result of these ideas. It was a 4-6-0 ten-wheeler with 85-inch Scullen Disk Drivers, a 12-wheel tender, a vestibule cab, and a mechanical coal stoker. A 4-4-2 Atlantic had been the Rock Island's first choice for such a locomotive, such Chapelon decided a 4-6-0 was better due to stronger adhesion and traction. The locomotives, numbered 10 through 17, entered service in November 1933, and were quick successes on the relatively short passenger trains. However, as patronage increased and more parts of the Rock Island recieved their own streamliners like the Chicago - Denver Rocky Mountain Rocket, the need or stronger engines became clear, and the T-32s were reassigned to the Chicago - Peoria Peoria Rocket. As for the other Rockets, they were taken over by first rebuilt and streamlined Pacifics, then EMD Diesels.

Today, #14 is preserved at Des Moines, IA with several former RI coaches. The T-32 is a rather interesting contrast to the Milwaukee Road A Class if one ever studies the two as well.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Filipino National Railways 200 Class 4-8-0

After their takeover of the Philippines during the First Great War, the new Japanese colonial administration was quick to try and make the most of their newfound prize. Part of this, they determined, would be expanding the small rail network out of Manila to other key areas of Luzon Island.

At first, the line used mainly engines that had already been there during the Spanish colonial era (such as 4-4-2 Atlantics), and several ex-JGR 2-6-0s and 2-8-0s that were soon to be retired in Japan. Soon, the railway network of Luzon became the dumping ground for any JNR steamer that was ready for retirement. However, as the industrialization of Luzon began in earnest in the 1920s, it became clear that a larger and more powerful steam engine was going to be needed for the heavy freights in particular.

The local administration's solution was to contact Baldwin for a cheap, but strong engine that could be used instead of the aging Moguls on freight duties. Baldwin's answer was a series of 4-8-0s resembling those not unlike the Benguela Railway in Portuguese Africa. These engines were natural successes, and several more examples were built by Kawasaki in 1931. Eventually, the 200 series totaled 80, and all of them continued to run well into the electrification era of Filipino Railways.

Today, #209 runs on special trains while other examples are on display across Luzon.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Special thanks to @TheMann who gave helpful tips regarding my own attempts at diesels and electrics as well as allowing me to borrow several of his pre-existing ideas. Also, thanks to @Lucas for contributing and idea referenced in the post.

Morrison-Knudsen EP100 Class Bo-Bo+Bo-Bo

As the process of electrifying large parts of their network ended in the mid 1970s, the Pennsylvania Railroad recognized the need for a locomotive that could be used on most freights over their electrified routes. More specifically, the NEC corridor from Boston to Norfolk, the Keystone Division from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, and the Panhandle main from Pittsburgh to St. Louis via Columbus and Indianapolis. The PRR already had both E44 and GE E60 locomotives, which were also successfully used by the Milwaukee Road and Southern Pacific. However, these engines typically had to be lashed up to at least four to handle especially the coal trains that dominated PRR freight traffic.

The Morrison-Knudsen Company say this as a chance to truly enter the American locomotive market with Sulzer and Toshiba as its assistants. Ultimately, it was decided on creating a twin-unit locomotive in the vein of the GE EPH-60 that had been used to great success on the Rio Grande's electrified lines from Denver to Salt Lake City. However, the PRR insisted on also valuing speed, which the EPH-60 was frankly not the absolute best at. As such, the M-K company crated the EP100.

Ultimately, the EPH-60 proved to be a more ideal candidate for coal and ore trains. However, the EP100 proved itself as an excellent model for fast freight service especially in the Northeast Corridor, and on the Panhandle to St. Louis. In turn, this success on fast freight would lead to Southern Pacific employing several locomotives of their own on the lines from Colton, CA to El Paso, TX. The Milwaukee Road also found these engines ideal for the eastern half of their electrified routes in the Dakotas and Montana.

Today, several EP100s are still in operation in the state of Cuba. Whereas a few others are preserved across the PRR lines from Pennsylvania to St. Louis.

 

[Luath]

Just a little idea that popped into my head.

THE BRITISH RAIL CLASS 30 (GAS TURBINE)
​

In the history of motive power development, gas turbine locomotives, that is to say that those locomotives that obtain their power from gas turbines rather than diesel engines, occupy a unique niche. Only two countries in history have ever employed a class of these locomotives. In the united states the Union Pacific railroad made extensive use of a large heavy-oil burning machine supplied by Alco, though on reflection the locomotives prodigious appetite for fuel certainly coloured their legacy, if not amongst enthusiasts. The British machines were something altogether different. You see, the standard features of diesel locomotives around the world are usually; two or one forward facing cab, all powered wheels, two or more bogies containing said wheelsets. However there is no design rule nor engineering law that states that a liquid fueled locomotive must be built with these feature. This was the thinking of a young English Electric engineer, one J.O.P Hughes, who believed that it would be far faster to produce a turbine locomotive if one used the same practices as the steam age, after all most factories during the 1950s in the UK were tooled for the production of steam locomotives. Thus was GT3 (gas turbine three) made.

The Original GT3
​

From the footplate up the locomotive took the from of a futuristic machine, with a large casing covering its large and low pressure turbines which generated some 2750 BHP, and prominent side mounted air intakes, from the footplate down a casual observer could be forgiven for assuming that some strange new breed of Steam engine had been produced. Nothing of the sort, GT3 was the first 4-6-0 gas turbine. The locomotive weighed 125 short tones and could attain a top speed of 90MPH. How the class came to be excepted into production, was down to delays in the electrification process of the West Coast main line and the need for a stop-gap from of express power. Thus the GT3 was approved for a production batch as the class 30. To further cement its new status as a West coast machine, the class of 25 locomotives would be given names of ex LMSR Coronation class 4-6-2s.

An as yet unnamed example in BR blue
​

They certainly caused confusion amongst passengers, assured the age of Steam had ended

CLASS LIST
30001 GT3
30002 CITY OF BIRMINGHAM
30003 CITY OF BRADFORD
30004 CITY OF BRISTOL
30005 CITY OF CARLISLE
30006 CITY OF CHESTER
30007 CITY OF COVENTRY
30008 CITY OF EDINBURGH
30009 CITY OF GLASGOW
30010 CITY OF LANCASTER
30011 CITY OF LEEDS
30012 CITY OF LONDON
30013 CITY OF MANCHESTER
30014 CITY OF LIVERPOOL
30015 CITY OF SHEFFIELD
30016 CITY OF LICHFIELD
30017 CITY OF LEICESTER
30018 CITY OF ST ALBANS
30019 CITY OF STOKE-ON-TRENT
30020 CITY OF HEREFORD
30021 CITY OF SALFORD
30022 CITY OF STIRLING
30023 CITY OF WOLVERHAMPTON
30024 CITY OF ABERDEEN
30025 CITY OF INVERNESS.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

A little something I thought of after remembering some cancelled contributions I proposed to the More Perfect Union TL by @HeX. This does include some references to my own plans for a USA TL where I will include railroads more.

Cuba Railroad K-1 Class 2-8-2

The Spanish-American War of 1896 ended with the island of Cuba being firmly a US territory, eventually reviving statehood in 1902. As part of the greater plan to expand their control over the island, the new state government announced that it would subsidize an company that would agree to operate a railroad across the island. The resulting company, the Cuba Railroad, was completed in 1915, but the acquisition of rolling stock was delayed when in the Grand War, Spain invaded the key Anglo-American ally of Portugal.

The USRA, created during the Roosevelt Administration, got involved by giving off locomotives to the Cuba RR. However, it was discovered that most of these engines were too large to operate well on the light tracks and bridges. However, the CRR got a solution from looking at the 0-8-0s. A few weeks later, and some work at the Havana Shops had converted these engines into small, but strong Mikados capable of hauling the heaviest trains on the system, as well as serving the standard gauge industrial lines of the island state. Even during the Second Great War, these Mikados were seen evacuating civilians and forces away from targets of bombing raids from Mexican bombers [1].

Nonetheless, all steamers met their ends, and these saw theirs as the Cuba Railroad was electrified in the 1970s. However, many are preserved on both Cuba and on the continenal US. Including K-1 #403, which is operational on the Whitewater Valley Railroad out of Connersville, IN.

[1] It's a long story to say the least. The short answer is that Mexico is stronger than OTL, but eventually becomes a member of TTL's answer to the Axis Powers. Of course, I could instead have Columbia be the aggressor.

 

[Richard V]

For those that know more about this than I. What about the South African “Red Devil” gas producer steam engine? It was supposedly the most efficient steam engine ever. If it was invented earlier would the steam age have lasted much longer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Class_26_4-8-4