To the Victor, Go the Spoils (Redux): A Plausible Central Powers Victory

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NoMommsen

TheReformer said:
...
Instead, he turned to a second alternative plan; to introduce proportional representation and replace the country’s stale single-member electoral system. ...

This proposal was acceptable to the King and thus legislation was introduced in the first week of December to amend the electoral laws. ...
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Would it have been so easy to substantially change the existing constitution? ... and were there enough 'votes' available within parliament to follow, support and vote for Nitti's plan and laws?

TheReformer said:
...
The crackdown was unexpectedly brutal, leading to the phrase ‘Nitti’s Noose’ being used to describe the method of execution for arrested radicals ...
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While this may sound nice to the anglophone ear ... as whatever 'nickname' it would be given it would very likely be in italian. And there it would sound:
"imbractura di cordo"​
or​
"ciclo continuo"​

... how 'catching' ... maybe
"appender a la Nitti"​
might sound somehwat better ?
There might still or also the possibility to add something like "... as it was called in english newspapers ...", " ... by enlish/american historians" or similar.
 
TheReformer

TheReformer

NoMommsen said:
Would it have been so easy to substantially change the existing constitution? ... and were there enough 'votes' available within parliament to follow, support and vote for Nitti's plan and laws?
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Given that the electoral law had been twice changed (1880 and 1890) since the establishment of the constitutution (Statuto Albertino), and was changed irl, yes.

Nitti held a majority of 74% of the legislature on this issue, on account of the backing of his Government by the Liberal Union, his Radical party, the Constitutional Democratic Party and the Repblicans - at a minimum. I've not actually balanced where the other parties stood, some would back the move - as likely would the socialists.

NoMommsen said:
There might still or also the possibility to add something like "... as it was called in english newspapers ...", " ... by enlish/american historians" or similar.
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More of a description later applied, rather than one at the time. Ciclo continuo fits though.
 
AustrianFanboy

AustrianFanboy

NoMommsen said:
Would it have been so easy to substantially change the existing constitution? ... and were there enough 'votes' available within parliament to follow, support and vote for Nitti's plan and laws?


While this may sound nice to the anglophone ear ... as whatever 'nickname' it would be given it would very likely be in italian. And there it would sound:
"imbractura di cordo"​
or​
"ciclo continuo"​

... how 'catching' ... maybe
"appender a la Nitti"​
might sound somehwat better ?
There might still or also the possibility to add something like "... as it was called in english newspapers ...", " ... by enlish/american historians" or similar.
Click to expand...
@TheReformer as an Italian, I take the chance to answer both of @NoMommsen questions:
1) provided there were the votes in parlament, yes that would have been so easy: the Albertinian statute, which was the italian constitution until the end of the monarchy was a kind of flexible constitution, meaning It was liable to be modified by laws and decrees passed by the parliament; this instance was widely abused during the fascist era, and this is the reason why the current republican constitution is a "rigid" one, needing a two thirds majority inside parliament in order to be modified, and requesting a scuccesful popular referendum for any change to become effective.
2) Nitti's noose fits quite well in italian: the translation would be "il cappio di Nitti".
"Appendere alla Nitti" would still be ok, where "appendere" is a verb in the present simple tense.
"Imbracatura di corda" just means "rope apparel" in italian, while "ciclo continuo" translates as "continuous cycle"... don't know what you meant with that.
That said, as usual "Gott erhalte Karl der Kaiser!"
 
AustrianFanboy

AustrianFanboy

TheReformer said:
Given that the electoral law had been twice changed (1880 and 1890) since the establishment of the constitutution (Statuto Albertino), and was changed irl, yes.

Nitti held a majority of 74% of the legislature on this issue, on account of the backing of his Government by the Liberal Union, his Radical party, the Constitutional Democratic Party and the Repblicans - at a minimum. I've not actually balanced where the other parties stood, some would back the move - as likely would the socialists.


More of a description later applied, rather than one at the time. Ciclo continuo fits though.
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That said I take the chance to congratulate you for this superb TL, for the level of its detail, the avoidance of abused clichès and the realistic, compelling way in which you describe warfare events, without resulting redundant and avoiding the usual Pendulum trope.
Also your story flows seamlessly and organically.
The only part, thus far, I found a bit less exciting was the German High Seas Fleet mutiny: not than It didn't fit perfectly well with the rest, It Is just that in that bend your story seemed a bit less natural, as it was a bit more evident that you were designing event to get to a certain final result, instead of the other way around. Still, IMHO a truly excellent, impressive work
 

Vabasion

I think in an effort to remain realistic you kinda went over too far into bad outcomes for everyone involved. Too many revolutions, revolts, uprisings and otherwise negatives for the world as a whole. Everyone was tired of war in the west.
 
Entrerriano

Entrerriano

Vabasion said:
I think in an effort to remain realistic you kinda went over too far into bad outcomes for everyone involved. Too many revolutions, revolts, uprisings and otherwise negatives for the world as a whole. Everyone was tired of war in the west.
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I mean Austria-Hungary hasn't collapsed (yet)
 
TheReformer

TheReformer

Vabasion said:
I think in an effort to remain realistic you kinda went over too far into bad outcomes for everyone involved. Too many revolutions, revolts, uprisings and otherwise negatives for the world as a whole. Everyone was tired of war in the west.
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What revolts? This is literally the first one besides the German and french strikes - which were strikes, not revolts. I guess there was a brief mutiny in the French fleet. Then there was a coup in Greece.

By January 1919 in OTL there had been a war Ukraine, Romania and Hungary. Germany had undergone a revolution and an attempted coup. There had been an attempted revolution in the Netherlands. Italy was, frankly, on fire and a random poet had invaded Fiume. Austria Hungary meanwhile had completely imploded.

Have you read this?
 
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TheBalkanizer

TheReformer said:
What revolts? This is literally the first one besides the German and french strikes - which were strikes, not revolts. I guess there was a brief mutiny in the French fleet. Then there was a coup in Greece.

By January 1919 in OTL there had been a war Ukraine, Romania and Hungary. Germany had undergone a revolution and an attempted coup. There had been an attempted revolution in the Netherlands. Italy was, frankly, on fire and a random poet had invaded Fiume. Austria Hungary meanwhile had completely imploded.

Have you read this?
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I concur
 
AustrianFanboy

AustrianFanboy

Vabasion said:
I think in an effort to remain realistic you kinda went over too far into bad outcomes for everyone involved. Too many revolutions, revolts, uprisings and otherwise negatives for the world as a whole. Everyone was tired of war in the west.
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I assume you have not read most other late CP victory TLs, especially a certain one, widely celebrated, where literally everyone and their cousin descends into an at least three-way civil war. 😅
 

boredviewer1234

Italy is certainly going to have a interesting future, I quite like the issue of the government of Italy collapsing, and it's many enemies unsure what to replace it with leading to this situation as well as the awareness of the ''richness'' of Europe at the time was not really a thing a disturbingly high part of the population.

I admit i'm not sure which direction this civil war will go, I see Mussolini and plenty of others are naturally using it as a opportunity to increase their own support base and make sure the status quo does not return despite their own views on the socialist side.

Some factors I could see influencing this conflict was the number of Austrian empire traitors in Italy formed from prisoners like the Romanian, Slavic, Czech ect legions present who's best chance at reaching their goals would be backing the socialist government, however I can see also see the socialists naturally uneasy at taking them in as units given the potential issues it can bring.

Also I can imagine this being a issue that will stun lock Austria for a bit into inaction because all the choices are bad and will be opposed by the respective political parties. Getting involved in backing the monarchy will be opposed by those anti war and or socialist as well those fearing war exhaustion, trying to aid and prop such as reducing reparation's will be opposed ect.

However ironically enough losing the war might have given the royalists a major boon, if they can get Austria to halt or reduce the flow of prisoners being realized and exchanged, maybe by agreeing to pay by feeding them they can easily keep at least hundreds of thousands of bitter, angry veterans from coming back who might fight against them.

By the way I just realized given what's occurred I can't imagine Italy, Serbia or Greece, France ect intervening in Russian civil war reducing it by over fifty thousand troops.
 

Claudius

I hope that this TL hasn't died. Having spent quite a few years in Academe, I can appreciate the demands on your time, but selfishly, I'd love to read more.
 

Claudius

Migrant_Coconut said:
Well, I can guarantee that asking an author to update is the quickest way to kill their inspiration (if not have a mod lock it down altogether).
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Well I have been an author here too and I never took it amiss when some one (respectfully) asked about an update. I took it as a complement. as I hope is the case here.
 
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