TL-191: Yankee Joe - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the U.S. Armed Forces

One idea I had, inspired by Tiro's post ages back, was that during the inter-war period the Union suffers from what will ultimately be skewed priorities - because they think tey've got the South beat, they begin to look outwards and less at war on the North American continent. The reforms of the Socialist administrations also drain funding away from the military towards peace time development. As a result, the US Army shrinks and increasingly focuses on partisan warfare (from Mormons and Canadians) and less on combined arms combat. The army officer corp shrinks and a lot of its better members to other service branches - while there are still good officers, there are just aren't enough of them and the Confederate officer corp is of more even and generally superior quality. While there are efforts made to rectify this with the rise of Jake the Snake, it takes too long and thus the US Army still isn't ready, either in terms of equipment or training, on the eve of the SGW (hence still using bolt-actions when the Rebs have semi or fully auto rifles). This explains the poor state of the US Army despite US economic potential.

Conversely, the US Navy, Air Force and Marine Corp remain well funded and effective, as it is believed they will take the fight to the British or Japanese or perhaps even the Germans. In particular the USMC is the cream of the crop when it comes to US land forces - it is relatively large for an expeditionary force (though still far, far smaller than the army) and also receives more modern equipment. In particular I am thinking that the first US semi-automatic rifle (or perhaps even battle rifle) is adopted by the USMC (I am inspired by the Soviet Naval Infantry having a lot of SVT-40s at the start of WW2 and giving the Wehrmacht problems) and while they can't hope to stop the Southern tide, their better training and equipment compared to the US Army gives them a reputation as the fiercest troops in the US of A, putting up the toughest fight Johnnie Reb ever had during the first few months of the SGW. Eventually things even out more with the Army but the USMC still maintains this reputation as an "ass-kickin" force due to those early efforts.

This is also because I like the idea of the Confederate Marine Corp being underfunded and having a reputation for relative ineffectiveness (in contrast to the Confederate Army, which develops a mythos comparable to OTL Heer). So you have a army-marines contrast between the two nations.

The decision to focus military funding on fighting overseas conflicts to the detriment of a Second Round with the South would be identified by TL-191 historians a one of the Union's worst mistakes during the interwar period, as it ultimately allowed the South to gain the initial momentum during the Second Great War.

I imagined some thing similar to what you and Tiro thought about the state of the U.S. military in TL-191 after FGW: Due to Socialist policies, the strength and funding of it is nerfed down considerably that later TL-191 historians would mention that had it not been like that, the SGW would have been very different (more than likely ending in a faster victory for the USA).

It also gives some plausibility for the CSA to be able to have a decent fighting chance against the USA, although it is not necessarily a guarantee for another Southern victory.

On the earlier discussion about American stahlhelm, I have this to say in all honesty.

The US army OTL was very close to adopting the stahlhelm actually. The Nazi association led for the m1’s selection though.

Keep in mind many foreign nations favored the stahlhelm, and its design today influences modern ballistic helmets. America not the power it was otl at the start of wwii. It might lean on Germany quite a bit more ttl, so it is likely more than just the stahlhelm will be adopted. The American uniform of wwi and early wwii was very Anglo influenced and used the Brodie after all, which was discarded as the Brodie was outdated, a problem the stahlhelm wouldn’t suffer.

Northern America likely has string Germanic roots felt as a result of being allied in both wars and the immigration. Certainly the German language wouldn’t decline like otl in America. Germany’s vast colonial empire will make it a relevant language internationally.

Actually here is a good poster I found for the TL, keep in mind despite Germanic features on the American, these uniforms are not identical in reality.

View attachment 531305

German American relations will remain strong post war. Why? Because for one, America has more difficult string to deal with. Reintegrating confederacy, which likely has separatism, Mormons, and Canadians, and also japan, a far more relevant strategic threat. Japan will not he trusted by either Germany or America, after all, they only joined out of opportunism and went to the party late. Germany will also probably be terrified over the potential for a revived Russia, which is a far more real threat than an otl revived Germany, so it will be more focused on strengthening the Mitteleuropa pact.

The Dewey doctrine will stay the point I made.

Nice picture. I think the original was that of a Wehrmacht soldier shaking hands with a Nationalist Chinese soldier.

I mentioned before that this version of the Cold War in TL-191 would be a lot more complex than in real life. At the very least, there would be a tri-polar competition between USA, Germany, and Japan at some point in the future while each nation deals with its own internal problems. USA and Germany, more than likely, wouldn't be hostile but very competitive for international influence. It's probably against Japan that the USA would behave like a "frenemy" and Germany may exploit that.
All three nations would use each other under a pretense of convenient friendship for their agendas.
 



The Wright 26 was a major step forward for the USAAF from the machines that were in service in the years after the Great War. Amalgamating a variety of features such as enclosed cockpits, monoplane wings and retractable landing gear into one aircraft, the 26 was already being phased out of service by the outbreak of war, but continued to see service as a trainer, and with second-line forces such as Quebec. Several were also captured by the Utah rebels from US air bases in the territory.

the Wright-27 was by and large the USA's most important fighter of the war, and remained in service in some form or another throughout the entire war. Updating the Wright-26 airframe with a more powerful engine, the plane was faster, more agile, and had a longer range than it's predecessor and could be configured as a fighter-bomber. These machines went toe-to-toe with the CSA's "Hound Dog" fighters throughout the war.

The Boeing P8A benefited from the alliance with Imperial Germany, and is something of a reverse-engineer of the Focke-Wulf FW-190 used by the Luftwaffe. Designed as a long-range bomber escort, the "Colt" could also serve as a heavy ground-attack fighter with its punishing 8x Browning .50 caliber Machine guns, and made short work of Hound Dogs and Razorback bombers in the air.

a revolution in the air war came with the Boeing 71 "Turbo." Powered by two Westinghouse Turbojet engines copied from a German design, the fighter could push past the maximum speed of any aircraft flown by the CSA, and it's nose-mounted 20mm cannons made it a fierce opponent to both air and ground targets.

while the Boeing 17 dive bomber was no match to the Turbo or Colt in terms of speed, it was robust and strong. It needed to be, for it was more than a match for the CSA's "Mule" Dive Bomber, and in both naval and land-based variations it served well. Later in the war, a number of the aircraft were modified to carry twin 37mm cannons to knock out ground targets and Confederate Barrels.

the Douglas DC-2 was the primary transport of the USA during the war. Robust, well-built and long-ranged, the DC-2 came into its own once the war came back in the USA's favor following the battle of Pittsburgh, and was deployed in its most well-known role of Paratroop transport during the assault on Missionary Ridge and Lookout Mountain during Irving Morrell's drive into Tennessee.

one of the most important aircraft of the USA's effort was the Boeing B-17 "Flying Fortress," which was the USA's primary heavy bomber. Hundreds of these planes pounded Confederate industrial targets and cities throughout the war, further weakening the CSA's already strained industry and war effort, and would continue to punish the CSA throughout the conflict.

[=]

the Wright-26 was Influenced by the fine work of S. Marlowski. Not trying to step on your toes, friend, I love your work.

Great images!

View attachment 547197
My interpretation of an Early Second Great War Union Army Infantry Uniform.

Love it!

I only wish the headgear was a stahlhelm.

That being said, you should do more of these types of art, S. Marlowski.

It would be great to see how soldiers from all major and minor players of the Great Wars look like and also perhaps individual civilians and/or politicians from the books.

I'd love to see American Blacks in a Wehrmacht-inspired uniform fighting against Confederate soldiers wearing the OTL-WWII U.S. uniform.
 
Great images!



Love it!

I only wish the headgear was a stahlhelm.

That being said, you should do more of these types of art, S. Marlowski.

It would be great to see how soldiers from all major and minor players of the Great Wars look like and also perhaps individual civilians and/or politicians from the books.

I'd love to see American Blacks in a Wehrmacht-inspired uniform fighting against Confederate soldiers wearing the OTL-WWII U.S. uniform.
I personally envision the CSA using a British/French Mix, as they would have been influenced by them in developing their military (see Featherston's beloved 75mm gun, the CSA using British Barrels in GW1 and the GW1 Tredegar rifle)

Something like this:
1589597673160.png


Save the Freedom Party Guards, whose combat uniforms are clearly evoking the Waffen SS Camouflage tunics:
1589597725628.png
 
Boeing P-70 Screaming Eagle.png

My interpretation of a Union Air Force Screaming Eagle, which mine is the Boeing P-70 Screaming Eagle. I had used a Suhkoi Su-9 as a base and added the wings, tail section, and nose from the Bell P-59 Aircomet.
 
Von Steuben Division Patches.png

With the increased German influence on the Union army and the USA's alliance with Imperial Germany following their ascension in 1871, the German immigrant population in the USA (who form one of the largest ethnic subgroups in the USA) had well embraced their heritage by the outbreak of the First Great War.

the 807th "Von Steuben" Division was named in honor of Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben, a Prussian and later an American military officer. He served as Inspector General and a Major General of the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He was one of the fathers of the Continental Army in teaching them the essentials of military drills, tactics, and discipline. He wrote Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States, the book that served as the Army's drill manual for decades. He also served as General George Washington's chief of staff in the final years of the Revolution.
Formally adopted by the Union as the figurehead of German heritage in the USA, the Division was one of the best-outfitted of the whole Army, befitting their namesake, and participated in many of the initial offensives against the CSA on the Roanoke Front. Their emblem, an "Ice Cross" on a stylized Snowflake, is meant to represent Valley Forge, the vicious Winter Camp of the Continental army in 1777, where Von Steuben first came into US service.

the 809th "Ironbloods" was made up primarily of volunteers from Dakota, Minnesota, Montana and Wisconsin, many of whom were direct descendants of German immigrants or were immigrants themselves. Indeed, some written orders to the unit had to be translated in both English and German due to some of the men not being able to speak or read adequate English, and Commissioned officers had to be bilingual for the same reason. Named in honor of Otto Von Bismarck, Chancellor of Germany at the time of their initial alliance with the USA, the division is regarded by the 807th as "runners up" due to their later formation, and a fierce rivalry exists between both divisions.
Their Symbol, an Iron Cross over Victory Laurels and An American Shield, is meant to both praise Germany's victory over the French in 1871 and state that the US will soon follow suit.

the 810th Division "General Slocum" is the newest "Heritage" Division in the US army, not being formed until 1905, and is made up primarily of freshly-arrived Immigrants from the New York area. their name comes from the tragedy of the Sinking of the General Slocum, a tourist boat that caught fire in New York's East River while carrying an excursion party of German immigrants in 1904. Due to poor maintenance, falsified records of upkeep and general negligence, the fire claimed over 1000 lives as lifesaving equipment fell to pieces with rot and lifeboats could not be launched.
An entire neighborhood of "Little Germany" was erased due to the casualties, leading to a major Demographic shift as the Jewish population began to expand into the vacated area. It is said by some that a young Flora Hamburger, having witnessed the disaster and the virtual lack of punishment for the negligence of the ship's owners, was first motivated to join the Socialist party by the tragedy.
In Honor of their fallen brethren, the Division serves as a form of Remembrance, seeking to assure Union Supremacy on the Continent so Social Change can occur. Many of the Division's members express Socialist views, and are derided by some as a "Secret Army" of the Socialist party.

The American Volunteer Corps, or Amerikanishces Freiwillingenkorps, is something of an oddity in the Imperial German Army, being made up of American volunteers. Their motivations vary: Some have family in the CSA and cannot stomach fighting their own blood, some hate the English and French more than the CSA, and there is a very large contingent of Jews who fled Russian persecution and want to strike back. Regardless of their personal motivations, the Unit, some 47,000 men strong, including several thousand blacks, are among the fiercest fighters in the German Army, and have used their multi-national structure to their advantage: having many multi-lingual members allows them to launch sneak attacks, diversions and distraction raids, and pick up on key intelligence in listening posts.
 
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View attachment 552982
With the increased German influence on the Union army and the USA's alliance with Imperial Germany following their ascension in 1871, the German immigrant population in the USA (who form one of the largest ethnic subgroups in the USA) had well embraced their heritage by the outbreak of the First Great War.

the 807th "Von Steuben" Division was named in honor of Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben, a Prussian and later an American military officer. He served as Inspector General and a Major General of the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He was one of the fathers of the Continental Army in teaching them the essentials of military drills, tactics, and discipline. He wrote Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States, the book that served as the Army's drill manual for decades. He also served as General George Washington's chief of staff in the final years of the Revolution.
Formally adopted by the Union as the figurehead of German heritage in the USA, the Division was one of the best-outfitted of the whole Army, befitting their namesake, and participated in many of the initial offensives against the CSA on the Roanoke Front. Their emblem, an "Ice Cross" on a stylized Snowflake, is meant to represent Valley Forge, the vicious Winter Camp of the Continental army in 1777, where Von Steuben first came into US service.

the 809th "Ironbloods" was made up primarily of volunteers from Dakota, Minnesota, Montana and Wisconsin, many of whom were direct descendants of German immigrants or were immigrants themselves. Indeed, some written orders to the unit had to be translated in both English and German due to some of the men not being able to speak or read adequate English, and Commissioned officers had to be bilingual for the same reason. Named in honor of Otto Von Bismarck, Chancellor of Germany at the time of their initial alliance with the USA, the division is regarded by the 807th as "runners up" due to their later formation, and a fierce rivalry exists between both divisions.
Their Symbol, an Iron Cross over Victory Laurels and An American Shield, is meant to both praise Germany's victory over the French in 1871 and state that the US will soon follow suit.

the 810th Division "General Slocum" is the newest "Heritage" Division in the US army, not being formed until 1905, and is made up primarily of freshly-arrived Immigrants from the New York area. their name comes from the tragedy of the Sinking of the General Slocum, a tourist boat that caught fire in New York's East River while carrying an excursion party of German immigrants in 1904. Due to poor maintenance, falsified records of upkeep and general negligence, the fire claimed over 1000 lives as lifesaving equipment fell to pieces with rot and lifeboats could not be launched.
An entire neighborhood of "Little Germany" was erased due to the casualties, leading to a major Demographic shift as the Jewish population began to expand into the vacated area. It is said by some that a young Flora Hamburger, having witnessed the disaster and the virtual lack of punishment for the negligence of the ship's owners, was first motivated to join the Socialist party by the tragedy.
In Honor of their fallen brethren, the Division serves as a form of Remembrance, seeking to assure Union Supremacy on the Continent so Social Change can occur. Many of the Division's members express Socialist views, and are derided by some as a "Secret Army" of the Socialist party.

The American Volunteer Corps, or Amerikanishces Freiwillingenkorps, is something of an oddity in the Imperial German Army, being made up of American volunteers. Their motivations vary: Some have family in the CSA and cannot stomach fighting their own blood, some hate the English and French more than the CSA, and there is a very large contingent of Jews who fled Russian persecution and want to strike back. Regardless of their personal motivations, the Unit, some 47,000 men strong, including several thousand blacks, are among the fiercest fighters in the German Army, and have used their multi-national structure to their advantage: having many multi-lingual members allows them to launch sneak attacks, diversions and distraction raids, and pick up on key intelligence in listening posts.
Great stuff. :cool:
 
Gabreski's P-70.png

The livery of a P-70 belonging to the famed Polish-Union Fighter Ace Gabby Gabreski, in which he would have 15 confirmed kills with the P-70 out 84 total kills during the war. Gabreski's Screaming Eagle would eventually be sent off to the Museum of the United States Air Force in Dayton in 1947 and has been on display there ever since.
 
View attachment 553423
The livery of a P-70 belonging to the famed Polish-Union Fighter Ace Gabby Gabreski, in which he would have 15 confirmed kills with the P-70 out 84 total kills during the war. Gabreski's Screaming Eagle would eventually be sent off to the Museum of the United States Air Force in Dayton in 1947 and has been on display there ever since.
Nice paint job. :cool:
 

The Vought F4U Corsair, which was the fastest fighter plane in the inventory of the US Navy and Marine Corps, and in 1942, 200 Corsairs would be pressed into service into the USAF service as the P-51. Confederate Air Force and Naval Aviation pilots would refer to the Corsair as the "Whistling Death" as they battled with the aircraft over the Atlantic and Caribbean. As well as being an effective fighter aircraft, the type would also excel in the fighter bomber role with a total of 12,347 airframes produced between 1942 and 1952.
 
Any idea what the United States cavalry would look like around the time of the First Great War?

Their cavalry regiments would still be viable even into the Second Great War, at least in the western theaters of war, particularly in Southwest, Texas, and Mexico. Abner Dowling mentions that cavalry skirmishes occur along the border of New Mexico and Texas.
 
Their cavalry regiments would still be viable even into the Second Great War, at least in the western theaters of war, particularly in Southwest, Texas, and Mexico. Abner Dowling mentions that cavalry skirmishes occur along the border of New Mexico and Texas.
I actually see them resembling their Spanish-American War and Pancho Via Expedition counterparts of OTL. With them generally being less influenced by the Prussian military reforms than the rest of the army though it's still there.
 
american20.jpg

If it hasn't already been mentioned the US tested designs for helmets IOTL for ww1, ironically it opted away from these designs as it looked too much like the imperial german. Same issue in ww2 while using camouflage on uniforms, I believe.

With the germans not exactly an issue in this timeline, you'd probably see well amount both.

Also, while it may be a bit too far in the hypothetical to tell, what do you think modern era US and German soldiers field?
 
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Also, while it may be a bit too far in the hypothetical to tell, what do you think modern era US and German soldiers field?
There are some posts and pics of what modern era US and German troops might wear on this thread but I don't remember which pages, maybe somewhere around the middle of this thread.
 
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