TL-191 WI: Gordon McSweeney Lives?

[wilji1090]

I've often found myself wondering what role Gordon McSweeney could've played in a victorious USA following the First Great War. Tales of a USA that lost the First Great War and electing McSweeney as their very own Hitler have made their way across the boards; however, I've never seen one speculating on this timeline of events.

Just what could McSweeney do in a United States that triumphed over its enemies?

 

[Marc Pasquin]

according to some articles, Turtledove himself was undecided about whether the USA or the CSA would end up going naziesque so he introduced featherstone and McSweeney. Considering that the Freedom Party was a carbon copy of the Nazi in most ways (and not just "inspired by"), I would assume that Gordon would have been just as much of an unsubtle Hitler expie then featherstone. The only thing that would have made him different would have been the target of his bigotry: either blaming everything on jews or on some other non anglo-saxon protestant group.

 

[wilji1090]

according to some articles, Turtledove himself was undecided about whether the USA or the CSA would end up going naziesque so he introduced featherstone and McSweeney. Considering that the Freedom Party was a carbon copy of the Nazi in most ways (and not just "inspired by"), I would assume that Gordon would have been just as much of an unsubtle Hitler expie then featherstone. The only thing that would have made him different would have been the target of his bigotry: either blaming everything on jews or on some other non anglo-saxon protestant group.

Except I'm asking what would McSweeney do in a victorious USA, not one that lost the FGW.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Except I'm asking what would McSweeney do in a victorious USA, not one that lost the FGW.

My point is that he was set up to be hitler so I always assumed that had he survived he would have played that role. In a victorious USA scenario he would have played a spiel of "The CSA shouldn't still exist" instead of a defeated USA "They shouldn't have won".

 

[wcv215]

IMO he doesn't really do much after the war. He wanders around with lots of anger ranting about the CSA. Most people dismiss him since they just want the war to be over and things to go back to peace. When Featherston starts winning in the CSA McSweeney immediately denounces him, and is again ignored. Then when the war starts he runs for an office like congressman or something. Pointing to his opponent's appeasement support McSweeney ends up winning and is a voice calling for harsh punishment and total defeat of the CSA. Afterwards I can see him as maybe a Joseph McCarthy analogue, and ends up discredited when it becomes clear his points about Featherston was really just the broken clock being right twice a day.

 

[wilji1090]

IMO he doesn't really do much after the war. He wanders around with lots of anger ranting about the CSA. Most people dismiss him since they just want the war to be over and things to go back to peace. When Featherston starts winning in the CSA McSweeney immediately denounces him, and is again ignored. Then when the war starts he runs for an office like congressman or something. Pointing to his opponent's appeasement support McSweeney ends up winning and is a voice calling for harsh punishment and total defeat of the CSA. Afterwards I can see him as maybe a Joseph McCarthy analogue, and ends up discredited when it becomes clear his points about Featherston was really just the broken clock being right twice a day.

Oddly, I could see him heading up the Nuremberg Trial-analogue for the CSA....

"Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Freedom Party?"

 

[Marc Pasquin]

maybe it's his creepy fixation with his flamethrower but I see him as a different level of psycho. The kind that inspire others.

 

[wilji1090]

maybe it's his creepy fixation with his flamethrower but I see him as a different level of psycho. The kind that inspire others.

McSweeney/Flamethrower? I ship it.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Oddly, I could see him heading up the Nuremberg Trial-analogue for the CSA....

"Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Freedom Party?"

did they ever mention what he did job-wise before the war ? I can't recall.

 

[wilji1090]

did they ever mention what he did job-wise before the war ? I can't recall.

It stated he was born in a farming family in the Midwest, so likely he was just a farmer.

 

[wcv215]

Oddly, I could see him heading up the Nuremberg Trial-analogue for the CSA....

"Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Freedom Party?"

Quite possibly. If we don't want a direct McCarthy parallel (and to keep Turtledove from having to continue the series past GWII) General Morrell (think that's how you spell it) gets called as a witness in favor of the defense of General Potter's attack on Philadelphia. When Morrell testifies that he would have carried out the operation the same way or whatnot have McSweeney blow up at him, accusing Morrell of being a secret Freedom Party supporter, the most beloved and decorated general in the Army, the man who WON the war. The press covers their quarrel, and this causes his career to collapse much like McCarthy did. McSweeney is censured by Congress and promptly voted out of office.

 

[Gaius Julius Magnus]

I have a hard time really imagining him really outside of a war. Maybe becomes a Father Coughlin-type in the 1930s as a Mass Media using religious demagogue when the Great Depression hits.

One idea I always had was that both the USA and CSA fall under dictatorships following the Great War with McSweeney as a sort of theocratic Stalin to Featherston's southern Hitler.

 

[Faeelin]

AS agood Christian, he believes the Christian African-Confederates should be saved, and works with Hamburger to resettle them in occupied Canada and Utah.

 

[wilji1090]

It's been a minute, but what was McSweeney's views on how the Confederacy treated their African population...?

 

[Fenrir_Angerboda]

The only role I can see McSweeney is that he'd stay in the army.

If he did leave, he'd probably go back to farming and snap up arms once the SGW breaks out.

Ends up being an analogue to the unsavory and brutal parts of the Red Army.
No raping and pillaging, but a fanatic who's killing anyone who's not a good Protestant.

Might end up getting fragged.

 

[Tiro]

I think that were one to write Gordon McSweeny between the Great Wars it would have to be so one can illustrate the truth that some Great Warriors NEED a War and have a very difficult time functioning in Society away from the Battlefield; Mcsweeny, a titan in the field but a truly limited Human Being would be an excellent subject for the illustration of the sort of problems this sort of Zealot encounters when obliged to function in a peacetime society.

Quite bluntly the best he can hope for is to be assigned to some proxy War (for example the Mexican Civil War) or just retire from the US Army so he can serve with another Army that actually needs the sort of Fanatical Zeal that our dear friend Gordon the Incendiary can supply; failing that I wouldn't be surprised if he was obliged to endure an honourable discharge from the US Army after his raw single-mindedness and intolerance of Human Weakness ticks off one superior officer too many.

I do agree that the Second Great War would almost certainly be his salvation ... assuming he survived that long without some accident or some illness or his own intolerable bigotry got the better of him.

 

[scourge]

I saw a timeline on another site that explores a McSweeny led victorious USA. He ends up becoming a Commie after his united smuggled weapons into the CSA to the Black Confederate Communists. He becomes a Stalin analog to Featherston's Hitler. Lavochkin becomes his successor and a new USA is born from the US and former Confederacy and Canada after reforms are made. The Second Great War is called the Great Reunification War. It was sadly never finished though. The poster was on the second year of the Great War.

 

[pattontank12]

The Interwar years he'd would stay in the army until facing an honorable discharge, after that moving on to being a Coughlin type figure. When Featherstone and the Freedom party his preaching's would take on a notable anti-Confederate rhetoric, becoming more politically active crying out that the US needs to build up it's military size and spending. May end up has a senator or congressmen. When SGW starts he'll go back into the army, fighting on the frontline.

 

[wilji1090]

The Interwar years he'd would stay in the army until facing an honorable discharge, after that moving on to being a Coughlin type figure. When Featherstone and the Freedom party his preaching's would take on a notable anti-Confederate rhetoric, becoming more politically active crying out that the US needs to build up it's military size and spending. May end up has a senator or congressmen. When SGW starts he'll go back into the army, fighting on the frontline.

I oddly see him coming to join the Socialist Party as a Henry Jackson-esque figure. He might support the social programs that many Socialists in Congress would want, while at the same time wishing to see harsher actions taken upon the Confederacy and possibly even Japan.

 

[MERRICA]

He would possibly be a mercenary and would flourish in the chaos that followed the war. Given that he was the kind of guy who could inspire soldiers to do great things, he would be in incredibly high demand.