TL-191: Filling the Gaps

Hell to Pay - Operation Downfall and the Invasion of Britain
Operation_Downfall.png

Map of Operation Downfall.

At the beginning of 1944, it was clear through their earlier defeats in the previous year, that the defeat of the Radius Powers was only a matter of time. By May, both Russia and France had surrendered, much of the Confederate States of America was under the Union Flag. Britain on the other hand neither had surrender or has it's territory under enemy control, but still it's defeat was only a matter of time. The Government of Winston Churchill and Oswald Mosley despite of the increasingly desperate situation still have a strong resolve to carry on the war until the bitter end. Around this time, the High Commands of both Germany and the United States would start putting together plans for a joint invasion of the British Isles which was codenamed Operation: Downfall. This operation was broken down into 4 different operations of the own, codenamed Sealion, Coronet, Olympic, and Felix. Sealion was scheduled to launch on September 14th, 1944 with landing areas planned all along the southern coast of England from Cornwall to Kent. The second operation, codenamed Coronet, was to take place on October 9th with landing zones in south-east Ireland was to be followed by landings in Norfolk County on the 11th under Operation Olympic. The final Operation codenamed Felix, was to take place sometime in the spring of 1945 along the eastern coast of Scotland.

The Plan for Defense:
With the Fall of France in April, the British High Command expected that the Central Powers were planning to invade England in the near future, and so they would begin to make preparations to defend Britain in the event of such an invasion were to occur. In June of 1944, the British High Command would divide the British Isles into 12 different areas of Army Control. The most important sectors were ones located along the southern part, where the British Leadership deduced that is where the German-American invaders were most likely going land. The overall commander of all British forces in the British Isles was Oswald Mosley, and under him commanding all units in the Southwestern, South, Southeastern, and London operational areas was General Bernard Montgomery. The ground forces for the British totaled to 4.2 million soldiers in addition millions more of recently raised civilian militia personnel, 62,000 field artillery pieces, 94,000 anti-aircraft weapons, and 1,100 barrels. The Royal Air Force had about 3,000 aircraft of all types as of July of 1944, but shortages of fuel and qualified pilots however meant that a small number were fully operational. The Royal Navy had it's Home Fleet, which on paper had 6 capital ships, 3 aircraft carriers, 5 heavy cruisers, 15 light cruisers, and 36 destroyers, and many other vessels. However, only the battlecruiser HMS Renown and battleship Royal Sovereign were fully operational along with 2 heavy cruisers, 5 light cruisers, and 19 destroyers. The other vessels were either sunk or damaged beyond any repair in the various naval bases in the region. The Royal Navy also suffered from a lack of fuel oil for it's warships and many of it's sailors have been forced in the role as serving as ground troops on land. To further augment their defenses, the British would construct a series of pillboxes, bunkers, anti-barrel traps, and other defenses fortifications and structures all across England in anticipation of an invasion. The British had also planned in making use their stockpile of the newly developed anthrax against the invasion forces, which was a biological weapon which they had developed to use against the food supplies of Germany and America. Another plan devised by the British when an invasion was to commence was to launch a full scale attack against the landing forces by using the large numbers of motor torpedo and gun boats. The end goal for these battle plans was to inflict enough casualties on the enemy to force them into accepting an armistice instead of facing a total defeat.

The Plan for Offense:
After the initial plans for Operation Downfall were agreed upon by senior German and American commanders, both nations would begin amass naval forces in European waters as well any form of transports they could get their hands on such as barges, ocean liners, landing ships, and other types. For Operation Sealion, five different army groups were planned to be landed all along Britain's southern coast which all of them were to be commanded by General Gerd von Rhunstedt. The armies involved included the American 3rd Army under Charles W. Ryder, the German 10th Army under Friedrich Paulus, the US 5th Army commanded by Oscar W. Griswold, the German 14th Army under Fedor von Bock, and the 7th Army under Erich von Manstein. In addition, the German-American 9th Army under General Ritter von Leeb was to land in the northern part of the Lizard peninsula in the event that Ryder's 3rd Army got bogged down. Also taking part in the Sealion Operation were four airborne divisions, the American 11th and 82nd Airborne Divisions and the German 1st and 2nd Parachute Divisions. Supporting the landings were the Task Forces 31 and 14, which constituted 4 battleships, 2 battlecruisers, 6 heavy cruisers 12 light cruisers, 35 destroyers, and other vessels from the navies of Germany, the United States, Denmark, Norway, and the Netherlands. Also supporting the landings were the air groups from the carriers of Task Force 35 and the land based units of the German Luftwaffe and USAF and the air forces of Austria-Hungary and Poland which totaled to 3,600 aircraft. The landing forces for Operation Coronet was the US 9th Army under USMC General William H. Rupertus with the help of both the Paramarine forces and also the Irish Resistance (who were also planning to launch a nationwide uprising on the day that Coronet was to commence.) For Operation Olympic, the US 8th Army was to be commanded by Robert L. Eichelberger, and the German 6th Army was to land in Scotland during Operation Felix was to commanded by Ernst Busch. A grand total of 1.9 million US and 4.2 million German soldiers were planned to be used during Operation Downfall alongside with the supporting forces 195,000 artillery pieces, 2,900 barrels, and up to 10,000 aircraft in all types. For naval forces, the Central Powers had up to 20 battleships, 9 battlecruisers, 7 aircraft carriers, 12 light aircraft carriers, 15 escort carriers, 32 cruisers, and 281 destroyers for naval forces. In addition, the Central Powers could've operated up to 1,300 other vessels such as support ships, landing ship barrel, landing craft, and troopships. The High Command would also make preparations to use chemical weapons in the event that the British put up a stubborn resistance, and even planning on using the new Sarin nerve agent in that event. In addition, the Central Powers also drew plans for potential tactical use of the superbombs if the need arose during the invasion.

Preparations and Termination:
In the last week of May of 1944, the Central Powers would commence their preparations for Operation Downfall as the German Army began to amass their ground forces on the various ports along the English Channel and the North Sea such as Le Havre, Cherbourg, Dieppe, Dunkirk, and the Calais. At the same time, the US Navy would increase their forces in the region following the destruction of Confederate Atlantic Fleet off Currituck. By June 19th, the first elements of the American ground forces under the command of General Omar Bradley of the so-called American Expeditionary Force would arrive at the French port city of Brest. By July 14th, the preparations for Operation Downfall was estimated to be about 55% complete when the new British Government led by Sir Horace Wilson would make peace with the Central Powers after both Churchill and Mosley were ousted from power during a coup d'état on the night of July 13th. With Britain's surrender, the Operation would be scrapped and instead, both German and American forces would enter Britain and would begin an occupation of the country.

In Retrospect:
Even during the preparation stages for Operation Downfall, many commanders on both sides became fearful that they would suffer heavy casualties during the operation. On July 10th, Bradley's top aide would come to a conclusion in a report that the German-American forces alone might suffer at least a million casualties. Many post-war historians would also come to the conclusion that high casualties might've been suffered by both sides if the war lasted long enough for Operation Downfall to the executed. Historians would also highlight that millions of British might have also perished during the Invasion. Laurence Rees, a British historian, would note if chemical and biological weapons, and even Kernwaffern were used during Operation Downfall, he would be on record of stating that the British Isles would've been rendered inhabitable for life to exist there. He would also state that, "If Downfall had been allowed to go ahead by circumstances, this could've ended Britain not just as an Empire, but also a Nation altogether."​
Radius powers? Interesting name. I thought they were called the Entente in both wars.
 
Don’t forget that Mexico fights a bloody civil war in the 1930s, presumably worse than the OTL Mexican Revolution at the end of the Porfiriato.

OTOH, a Mexico under the Catholic Hapsburg monarchy instead of the socialist-type government they had IOTL probably has a higher birth rate than IOTL. Guess it depends on whether the US bothers toppling Maximilian’s successors after GWII and who replaces them.
From 1917 immediately after GW1, to about 1925, to be correct. IOTL, trench warfare came to the North American continent IOTL's Mexican Revolution with the Battle of Celaya in 1915 when Constitutionalist forces under Álvaro Obregón defeated Pancho Villa's forces mounted and irregular infantrymen. Since TTL's version happens later, it's going to be worse with the advent of trench warefare, barrels, airplanes, chemical weapons, and paramilitary squads coming into play.
 


At the same time, the US Navy would increase their forces in the region following the destruction of Confederate Atlantic Fleet off Currituck.​
Has this battle been covered somewhere ?

In Retrospect:
Even during the preparation stages for Operation Downfall, many commanders on both sides became fearful that they would suffer heavy casualties during the operation. On July 10th, Bradley's top aide would come to a conclusion in a report that the German-American forces alone might suffer at least a million casualties. Many post-war historians would also come to the conclusion that high casualties might've been suffered by both sides if the war lasted long enough for Operation Downfall to the executed. Historians would also highlight that millions of British civilians that might have also perished during the Invasion. Laurence Rees, a British historian, would note if chemical and biological weapons, and even Kernwaffern were used during Operation Downfall, he would be on record of stating that the British Isles would've been rendered inhabitable for life to exist there. He would also state that, "If Downfall had been allowed to go ahead by circumstances, this could've ended Britain not just as an Empire, but also a Nation altogether."​
Well one difference with the OTL situtation with Japan is surely the British wouldnt have fought as fantacially as the Japanese were expected to right ? I know ittl they are a different people in some ways but still...
 
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With no invasion like Japan IOTL, does the UK come under German occupation after surrendering?
I would think so considering that they are now a Superbomb power. Unless Britain is somewhat defanged in a major way they could/would become a major thorn in Germanys side again very soon. Not to mention the USA who would also want to keep Britain down and out...
 
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Hell to Pay - Operation Downfall and the Invasion of Britain
Operation_Downfall.png

Map of Operation Downfall.

At the beginning of 1944, it was clear through their earlier defeats in the previous year, that the defeat of the Radius Powers was only a matter of time. By May, both Russia and France had surrendered, much of the Confederate States of America was under the Union Flag. Britain on the other hand neither had surrender or has it's territory under enemy control, but still it's defeat was only a matter of time. The Government of Winston Churchill and Oswald Mosley despite of the increasingly desperate situation still have a strong resolve to carry on the war until the bitter end. Around this time, the High Commands of both Germany and the United States would start putting together plans for a joint invasion of the British Isles which was codenamed Operation: Downfall. This operation was broken down into 4 different operations of the own, codenamed Sealion, Coronet, Olympic, and Felix. Sealion was scheduled to launch on September 14th, 1944 with landing areas planned all along the southern coast of England from Cornwall to Kent. The second operation, codenamed Coronet, was to take place on October 9th with landing zones in south-east Ireland was to be followed by landings in Norfolk County on the 11th under Operation Olympic. The final Operation codenamed Felix, was to take place sometime in the spring of 1945 along the eastern coast of Scotland.

The Plan for Defense:
With the Fall of France in April, the British High Command expected that the Central Powers were planning to invade England in the near future, and so they would begin to make preparations to defend Britain in the event of such an invasion were to occur. In June of 1944, the British High Command would divide the British Isles into 12 different areas of Army Control. The most important sectors were ones located along the southern part, where the British Leadership deduced that is where the German-American invaders were most likely going land. The overall commander of all British forces in the British Isles was Oswald Mosley, and under him commanding all units in the Southwestern, South, Southeastern, and London operational areas was General Bernard Montgomery. The ground forces for the British totaled to 4.2 million soldiers in addition millions more of recently raised civilian militia personnel, 62,000 field artillery pieces, 94,000 anti-aircraft weapons, and 1,100 barrels. The Royal Air Force had about 3,000 aircraft of all types as of July of 1944, but shortages of fuel and qualified pilots however meant that a small number were fully operational. The Royal Navy had it's Home Fleet, which on paper had 6 capital ships, 3 aircraft carriers, 5 heavy cruisers, 15 light cruisers, and 36 destroyers, and many other vessels. However, only the battlecruiser HMS Renown and battleship Royal Sovereign were fully operational along with 2 heavy cruisers, 5 light cruisers, and 19 destroyers. The other vessels were either sunk or damaged beyond any repair in the various naval bases in the region. The Royal Navy also suffered from a lack of fuel oil for it's warships and many of it's sailors have been forced in the role as serving as ground troops on land. To further augment their defenses, the British would construct a series of pillboxes, bunkers, anti-barrel traps, and other defenses fortifications and structures all across England in anticipation of an invasion. The British had also planned in making use their stockpile of the newly developed anthrax against the invasion forces, which was a biological weapon which they had developed to use against the food supplies of Germany and America. Another plan devised by the British when an invasion was to commence was to launch a full scale attack against the landing forces by using the large numbers of motor torpedo and gun boats. The end goal for these battle plans was to inflict enough casualties on the enemy to force them into accepting an armistice instead of facing a total defeat.

The Plan for Offense:
After the initial plans for Operation Downfall were agreed upon by senior German and American commanders, both nations would begin amass naval forces in European waters as well any form of transports they could get their hands on such as barges, ocean liners, landing ships, and other types. For Operation Sealion, five different army groups were planned to be landed all along Britain's southern coast which all of them were to be commanded by General Gerd von Rhunstedt. The armies involved included the American 3rd Army under Charles W. Ryder, the German 10th Army under Friedrich Paulus, the US 5th Army commanded by Oscar W. Griswold, the German 14th Army under Fedor von Bock, and the 7th Army under Erich von Manstein. In addition, the German-American 9th Army under General Ritter von Leeb was to land in the northern part of the Lizard peninsula in the event that Ryder's 3rd Army got bogged down. Also taking part in the Sealion Operation were four airborne divisions, the American 11th and 82nd Airborne Divisions and the German 1st and 2nd Parachute Divisions. Supporting the landings were the Task Forces 31 and 14, which constituted 4 battleships, 2 battlecruisers, 6 heavy cruisers 12 light cruisers, 35 destroyers, and other vessels from the navies of Germany, the United States, Denmark, Norway, and the Netherlands. Also supporting the landings were the air groups from the carriers of Task Force 35 and the land based units of the German Luftwaffe and USAF and the air forces of Austria-Hungary and Poland which totaled to 3,600 aircraft. The landing forces for Operation Coronet was the US 9th Army under USMC General William H. Rupertus with the help of both the Paramarine forces and also the Irish Resistance (who were also planning to launch a nationwide uprising on the day that Coronet was to commence.) For Operation Olympic, the US 8th Army was to be commanded by Robert L. Eichelberger, and the German 6th Army was to land in Scotland during Operation Felix was to commanded by Ernst Busch. A grand total of 1.9 million US and 4.2 million German soldiers were planned to be used during Operation Downfall alongside with the supporting forces 195,000 artillery pieces, 2,900 barrels, and up to 10,000 aircraft in all types. For naval forces, the Central Powers had up to 20 battleships, 9 battlecruisers, 7 aircraft carriers, 12 light aircraft carriers, 15 escort carriers, 32 cruisers, and 281 destroyers for naval forces. In addition, the Central Powers could've operated up to 1,300 other vessels such as support ships, landing ship barrel, landing craft, and troopships. The High Command would also make preparations to use chemical weapons in the event that the British put up a stubborn resistance, and even planning on using the new Sarin nerve agent in that event. In addition, the Central Powers also drew plans for potential tactical use of the superbombs if the need arose during the invasion.

Preparations and Termination:
In the last week of May of 1944, the Central Powers would commence their preparations for Operation Downfall as the German Army began to amass their ground forces on the various ports along the English Channel and the North Sea such as Le Havre, Cherbourg, Dieppe, Dunkirk, and the Calais. At the same time, the US Navy would increase their forces in the region following the destruction of Confederate Atlantic Fleet off Currituck. By June 19th, the first elements of the American ground forces under the command of General Omar Bradley of the so-called American Expeditionary Force would arrive at the French port city of Brest. By July 14th, the preparations for Operation Downfall was estimated to be about 55% complete when the new British Government led by Sir Horace Wilson would make peace with the Central Powers after both Churchill and Mosley were ousted from power during a coup d'état on the night of July 13th. With Britain's surrender, the Operation would be scrapped and instead, both German and American forces would enter Britain and would begin an occupation of the country.

In Retrospect:
Even during the preparation stages for Operation Downfall, many commanders on both sides became fearful that they would suffer heavy casualties during the operation. On July 10th, Bradley's top aide would come to a conclusion in a report that the German-American forces alone might suffer at least a million casualties. Many post-war historians would also come to the conclusion that high casualties might've been suffered by both sides if the war lasted long enough for Operation Downfall to the executed. Historians would also highlight that millions of British civilians that might have also perished during the Invasion. Laurence Rees, a British historian, would note if chemical and biological weapons, and even Kernwaffern were used during Operation Downfall, he would be on record of stating that the British Isles would've been rendered inhabitable for life to exist there. He would also state that, "If Downfall had been allowed to go ahead by circumstances, this could've ended Britain not just as an Empire, but also a Nation altogether."​

Another great map, S. Marlowski.

I accept this into my own head-canon, too. The only difference is that I probably would have involved the Norwegians, although I don’t know if the Norwegian Navy could have had the material and manpower to do such a thing.

I don't like the name Radius Powers tbh.
Entente is used regularly in the books iirc, and it just feels off.

To each their own.

I find it more creative than the continued use of “Entente” and “Central” Powers. Outside of its WWI analogue, it feels off when it’s used to describe WWII (SGW) alliances.

Surely, alternate names would have been used by at least one of them.

Radius Powers is a great nod to the Axis Powers of OTLs WW2 which of course ITTL is the Second Great War...

Yes, that was pretty much the reason why I chose that name.
 
I don't like the name Radius Powers tbh.
Entente is used regularly in the books iirc, and it just feels off.
Well in OTL the Entente and Central Powers were used only during WWI and during WW2 they became Allies and Axis. So to meet that halfway the Central Powers tag could remain from the GW but the Entente becomes the Radius in the SGW perhaps to encourage Britain and Russia and CSA that France wasnt trying to take the lead in the alliance-I know doesnt sound very French :p
 
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Well in OTL the Entente and Central Powers were used only during WWI and during WW2 they became Allies and Axis. So to meet that halfway the Central Powers tag could remain from the GW but the Entente becomes the Radius in the SGW perhaps to encourage Britain and Russia and CSA that France wasnt trying to take the lead in the alliance-I know doesnt sound very French :p
To be fair, the Second Great War ITTL was really just a continuation of the first with the Entente being more traditionalist and revanchist. The implications of an Entente victory are less serious for the Central Powers than they were for the Allies OTL if the Axis won WW2. ln the case of OTL, it would be bigger and much more devastating on a worldwide scale than ITTL since it's more ideologically driven IOTL as opposed to TTL where the causes are still militarism, the alliance system, imperialism, and nationalism. I'm not saying the Freedom Party and the Population Reduction are to be overlooked, but the Population Reduction was the centerpiece of the Freedomites whereas the Jewish Holocaust was just scratching the surface for what the Nazis had in mind. Hence, I think Central Powers and Entente make sense here. Also, nobody on the Central Powers jumped ship to the Entente as Italy and Japan did from the Entente OTL after Versailles. The Central Powers and Entente were the same as in the First Great War whereas the Axis was formed by the big loser of WW1 and joined by the Entente members who felt cheated after Versailles.
 
I accept this into my own head-canon, too. The only difference is that I probably would have involved the Norwegians, although I don’t know if the Norwegian Navy could have had the material and manpower to do such a thing.
Norway used to have one of the largest merchant navies in the world, so I guess they would've been useful as help in supplying the invasion forces.
 
To be fair, the Second Great War ITTL was really just a continuation of the first with the Entente being more traditionalist and revanchist. The implications of an Entente victory are less serious for the Central Powers than they were for the Allies OTL if the Axis won WW2. ln the case of OTL, it would be bigger and much more devastating on a worldwide scale than ITTL since it's more ideologically driven IOTL as opposed to TTL where the causes are still militarism, the alliance system, imperialism, and nationalism. I'm not saying the Freedom Party and the Population Reduction are to be overlooked, but the Population Reduction was the centerpiece of the Freedomites whereas the Jewish Holocaust was just scratching the surface for what the Nazis had in mind. Hence, I think Central Powers and Entente make sense here. Also, nobody on the Central Powers jumped ship to the Entente as Italy and Japan did from the Entente OTL after Versailles. The Central Powers and Entente were the same as in the First Great War whereas the Axis was formed by the big loser of WW1 and joined by the Entente members who felt cheated after Versailles.
Well I dont know that in a world where the CSA won it be "only" CSA blacks and say those in Haiti and the Caribbean that were eliminated.There is a chance that the Freedomite "Population Reduction " program once it became entrenched could have spread to Central and South America or even Africa.The elimination of all blacks in the Western Hemisphere or on Earth would have been a potential horrible future developmlent. Also just because the Irish and French and Russian Jews and other European Jews and "undesirables" werent specifically targeted for elimination by the Entente/Radius powers-as far as we know at least-it doesnt mean they wouldnt have gotten there eventually if they were victorious. We have no reason to think they wouldnt become more like their CSA ally in victory and we cant sufffer from a lack of imagination in that regard.
I also think this overlooks the fact that despite the Entente/Radius being made up of the same countries as in the GW all of those countries were under very different governments,ideologies and in some ways cultures in the SGW just as there was a big difference between Germany in OTL WWI and WW2. The Central Powers on the other hand didnt change that much or at all between and during the 2 wars. I just think we have to be very careful with the idea that an Entente/Radius victory ITTL would have been "better" than an Axis victory in OTL when the truth is it could have lead to as bloody or even a more bloody outcome in the long run...
 
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Well I dont know that in a world where the CSA won it be "only" CSA blacks and say those in Haiti and the Caribbean that were eliminated.There is a chance that the Freedomite "Population Reduction " program once it became entrenched could have spread to Central and South America or even Africa.The elimination of all blacks in the Western Hemisphere or on Earth would have been a potential horrible future developmlent. Also just because the Irish and French and Russian Jews and other European Jews and "undesirables" werent specifically targeted for elimination by the Entente/Radius powers-as far as we know at least-it doesnt mean they wouldnt have gotten there eventually if they were victorious. We have no reason to think they wouldnt become more like their CSA ally in victory and we cant sufffer from a lack of imagination in that regard.
I also think this overlooks the fact that despite the Entente/Radius being made up of the same countries as in the GW all of those countries were under very different governments,ideologies and in some ways cultures in the SGW just as there was a big difference between Germany in OTL WWI and WW2. The Central Powers on the other hand didnt change that much or at all between and during the 2 wars. I just think we have to be very careful with the idea that an Entente/Radius victory ITTL would have been "better" than an Axis victory in OTL when the truth is it could have lead to as bloody or even a more bloddy outcome in the long run...
Make no mistake, the Entente was far from being a good guy. But, I think we would have heard something about the other Entente Powers trying to do the same thing that Italy and Japan did OTL (ie trying to recreate the Roman Empire and the violent building of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere respectively) if they were going to. Now, I'm not going to say the CSA wouldn't have tried wiping out blacks elsewhere but based on what was in the books, it was unlikely that the Freedomites would've touched the US blacks due to their relative numeral insignificance. And the British and French wouldn't have let the CSA touch their Caribbean colonies as long as they were there to rule. If they dared try to touch Africa, it probably wouldn't end well for them given how Nazi Germany failed with their plan to wipe out millions of Slavs in the USSR. The books should really have been more clear if the Freedom Party had plans beyond the Confederacy and Haiti. Given that there wasn't much information given, I'm inclined to believe for now that they didn't have any immediate plans for the rest to exterminate the whole black population of the Americas and Africa if they won. As far as me saying the Entente winning would've been "less bad" than the Axis OTL, I only speculate that because the Entente as a whole simply fought for land in the area and returning to their glory days when they were on top of the world (except maybe Japan) instead of trying to create a horrid new world order and imposing that on much of the world like the Axis.
 
Make no mistake, the Entente was far from being a good guy. But, I think we would have heard something about the other Entente Powers trying to do the same thing that Italy and Japan did OTL (ie trying to recreate the Roman Empire and the violent building of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere respectively) if they were going to.
Well when it comes to Japan at least the information we have about them pretty much indicates thats exactly what they were trying to do ITTL .It also probably had a different name- The Illustrious East Asia Co-Profitability Realm ? But still the same idea and goals nevertheless....
Now, I'm not going to say the CSA wouldn't have tried wiping out blacks elsewhere but based on what was in the books, it was unlikely that the Freedomites would've touched the US blacks due to their relative numeral insignificance. And the British and French wouldn't have let the CSA touch their Caribbean colonies as long as they were there to rule. If they dared try to touch Africa, it probably wouldn't end well for them given how Nazi Germany failed with their plan to wipe out millions of Slavs in the USSR. The books should really have been more clear if the Freedom Party had plans beyond the Confederacy and Haiti. Given that there wasn't much information given, I'm inclined to believe for now that they didn't have any immediate plans for the rest to exterminate the whole black population of the Americas and Africa if they won.
Well to be honest that seems a little like wishful thinking.Its true HT doesnt tell us for certain but I think the fact that they went after Haiti demonstrates that they were interested in eliminating more of the worlds black population than that under their direct control or in their sphere of influence. Now blacks in the areas of the USA they didnt directly control would be left alone-until they directly controlled them. But what about Puerto Rico ,Brazil and other countries with sizable black populations in Central and South America that would be worefully unprepared to fend off a CSA with superbombs?
We can assume that the British and French would shield their black populations to a certain degree based on sovereignty but its also possible than in the interest of being good allies like Japan in TMITHC they are complict with the CSA in eliminating as many blacks as possible.Africa is another issue but in places not controlled by Germany -like Liberia or Ethiopia or British and French controlled places who knows ? If the Freedomite CSA survived and lasted into the 1990's or later I think its a safe assumption there would be way less black people in the Western Hemisphere and on Earth in general..
As far as me saying the Entente winning would've been "less bad" than the Axis OTL, I only speculate that because the Entente as a whole simply fought for land in the area and returning to their glory days when they were on top of the world (except maybe Japan) instead of trying to create a horrid new world order and imposing that on much of the world like the Axis.
Well again HT didnt give us more information about this for certain but we shouldnt suffer from a lack of imagination. As noted above Japans goals were probably very similar to Axis Japans goals. England certainly wanted Ireland back as well as Canada which could probably be pried from the USA if the Entente/ Radius was victorious. Also I dont imagine them evacuating India any time soon. Also France and Russia would have a field day with Germany and Austria -Hungary and the rest of Central Power Europe .Not mention the nebulous but likely "unpleasant" steps they would likely take with their own Jewish and other minorities viewed as "undesirable" populations. The timeline is probably longer than in an OTL Axis controlled world but I see no reason to not see a horrendous new world order resulting from an Entente/Radius controlled world....
'
 
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The Entente of GWII is a far clearer continuation of the Entente of GWI than the Axis was to the Central Powers.

"Central Powers" isn't used in the books either iirc. "Quadruple Alliance" is the preferred term in GWI, while it goes mostly unnamed in GWII. I wouldn't be surprised if QA remained the usual term.

Since GWI and GWII are far more similar both in scope and context than otl WWI and WWII, I really don't see any reason why the alliances would change names ittl.

That and "Radial Powers" just sounds goofy to me.
 
The Entente of GWII is a far clearer continuation of the Entente of GWI than the Axis was to the Central Powers.
Only in the sense it was the same countries involved. In the sense of a switch to hard right ideology and goals its very similar
"Central Powers" isn't used in the books either iirc. "Quadruple Alliance" is the preferred term in GWI, while it goes mostly unnamed in GWII. I wouldn't be surprised if QA remained the usual term.

Since GWI and GWII are far more similar both in scope and context than otl WWI and WWII, I really don't see any reason why the alliances would change names ittl.
Well again this isnt entirely true if you consider The Destruction,the Superbombs,whole towns being wiped out and other horrors that reared their head in the SCW that were absent or on a much lower scale than that in the GW.Also the fact that Quadruple Alliance which I shorten to Allies in my headcannon didnt change doesnt mean that the name Entente wouldnt change.The Entente lost the GW and it was lead by people and ideologies that the leaders of those same countries in the SGW believe were weak and a failure and lead to defeat.It actually makes perfect sense that they would want to be known by a different name.
That and "Radial Powers" just sounds goofy to me.
Its Radius Powers actually and it doesnt sound goofy at all to me. Its a very clever name using a synonym for Axis and considering the group of people we are talking about its entirely appropriate...
 
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What is the consensus of the Second Great War Confederate Surface Navy?

For me and my headcanon, the CS Navy is give or take roughly the same size as OTL's Kriegsmarine, with 3 Battlecruisers, 6 heavy cruisers, 7 light cruisers, 4 flotilla leaders, and 25 destroyers, in addition to a plethora of other ships as well as a single aircraft carrier which was never completed. In addition, I was thinking of them also using whatever Union warships they could find serviceable, repair them, and use them against their former owners.
 
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