Dear readers, as you may have noticed I've been giving some thought to the erstwhile Comte de Paris, Charles XI* and would like to share my ideas for the character in the form of a spiritual sequel to Craigo's original article - would anyone else like to see that or would they prefer me to tackle the subject of some other biography?
TL-191: Filling the Gaps
- Thread starter Craigo
- Start date
Message received and understood - I'll have to get working on that article!
One more thing before I go: since the Confederate Congress and a third of the Confederate Senate will be up for re-election every two years while a President of the Confederate States is elected every six years, calling those biennial elections "mid-terms" doesn't really make much sense so I've been looking for a logical alternate - my personal favourite would be "tertiary elections" (since they come a third and two-thirds of the way through a Confederate presidential term), but one has also wondered if simply referring to them as "Biennials" would get the job done in suitable style.
May I please ask if anyone else has thoughts on the subject and any alternate suggestions of their own?
One more thing before I go: since the Confederate Congress and a third of the Confederate Senate will be up for re-election every two years while a President of the Confederate States is elected every six years, calling those biennial elections "mid-terms" doesn't really make much sense so I've been looking for a logical alternate - my personal favourite would be "tertiary elections" (since they come a third and two-thirds of the way through a Confederate presidential term), but one has also wondered if simply referring to them as "Biennials" would get the job done in suitable style.
May I please ask if anyone else has thoughts on the subject and any alternate suggestions of their own?
Friends, the below narrative represents the state of Kaiserliche Marine Capital Ship development on the eve of the SGW. It only includes those capital ships that were active and does not take into account those ships in a reserve or decommissioned status waiting to be scrapped. For further background please reference President Mahan’s previous article on Kaiser Wilhelm II. Summary: Wilhelm II’s meddling results in a large surface fleet of super-dreadnoughts at the expense of other more practical assets. Once he is sidelined by illness Admiral Reader is able to finally pursue his Plan Z (4 aircraft Carriers, 10 Dreadnoughts, 15 Battlecruisers, 5 Heavy Cruisers, 44 light cruisers, 68 destroyers, and 249 U Boats by 1948). Unfortunately for the Empire, and due to aforementioned sovereign’s interference, the Kaiserliche Marine instead is top heavy in early 1941 with 15 Dreadnoughts, only 9 Battlecruisers, 60+ submarines, 8 heavy cruisers, 26 light cruisers, 49 destroyers and zero operational aircraft carriers. Link to previous essay included in notes section (Note 1).
After the perfunctory list I have gone into specifics on the individual post-FGW capital ships. I did not breakdown the Bayern class dreadnoughts or Defflinger/ Mackensen class battlecruisers, for example, as they are identical to the OTL ships of the same name and information can readily be found in the public realm. It is safe to assume that with minor deviations the Kaiserliche Marine developed ITTL much as it did in OTL up until 1917 as was Turtledove’s implication.
Following the capital ship list is a brief introduction to the battle off the coast of Norway (decisive German victory in 1941) and the follow-on decisive defeat of the German High Seas fleet in 1942. Further details of those surface engagements are being worked by President Mahan and contributing editors.
Kaiserliche Marine (1941)
Dreadnoughts
Bayern Class
SMS Bayern (1916)
SMS Baden (1916)
Sachen Class
SMS Sachen (1925)
SMS Wutterburg (1926)
Lothringen Class
SMS Lothringen (1932)
SMS Elsass (1933)
SMS Luxemburg (1933)
Großer Kurfurst Class
Großer Kurfurst (1935)
SMS Bismarck (1935)
SMS Blucher (1936)
SMS Tirpitz (1936)
Friedrich der Große Class
SMS Friedrich der Große (1937)
SMS Hindenburg (1938)
SMS Wilhelm II (1939)
SMS Großdeutschland (1940)
Battlecruisers
Derfflinger Class
SMS Derfflinger (1914)
SMS Moltke (formerly Hindenburg) (1917)
Mackensen Class
SMS Mackensen (1918)
SMS Prinz Eitel Friedrich (1919)
Scharnhorst Class
SMS Scharnhorst (1925)
SMS Graff Spee (1926)
Emden Class
SMS Emden (1927)
SMS Gneisenau (1928)
SMS Schlieffen (1928)
Kaiser Class (under construction as of June 1941)
SMS Kaiser (1942)
SMS Kronprinz (1942)
SMS Kronprinzessin (1943)
SMS Koing (1943)
Lutzow Class (under construction as of June 1941)
SMS Lutzow (1943)
SMS Roon (1943)
Unnamed (1944)
Unnamed (1944)
Aircraft Carriers
Graf Zeppelin Class
SMS Graf Zeppelin (1942)
SMS Peter Strasser (1942)
SMS Hugo Eckener (1943)
Unnamed (1944)
SMS Scharnhorst/ SMS Graf Spee (1925)
Maximum Speed: 33.5 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 3x3 283 mm (19.9 km)
Secondary armament: 7x2 105mm/ 4x1 150mm/ 4x2 150mm (6.7 km)(Note 2)
torpedoes: 2x3 533mm (6 km range/ 64 knots)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 35,400t/ 230
Dramatically ahead of her time when built, predicated upon lessoned learned in FGW, and capitalizing on the fire control that proved so superior to the British battlecruisers in that conflict. When completed, her rapid firing 283 mm guns had the fastest reload of any Battlecruiser on the planet, and her record setting range (over 7,000 nm) meant this class of Battlecruiser would be ideal for prowling the far reaches of the newly expanded German Empire.
Compared to the Royal Navy’s Admiral Class battlecruisers, which were to be the last British class designed (but not built) during the Great War, the Scharnhorst class would be smaller, with a reduced caliber, than the proposed competitor. German intelligence had been able to obtain rough sketches of the proposed British battlecruiser, and spies in the UK had been reporting back on the progress of the HMS Hood which was laid down in 1916—only to be scraped when the war ended in August of 1917. Anticipating (incorrectly, as it turned out) the British government to eventually make good on their plans for the Admiral class, the German design called for the new battlecruisers to instead rely on superior speed, maneuverability, and superlative marksmanship, to prevail over her enemies. At 34 knots she was 2 knots faster than the Courageous class of battlecruisers (the aborted Admiral class would have also been limited at 32 knots).
SMS Emden (1927)/ Gneisenau (1928)/ Schlieffen (1928)
Maximum Speed: 31 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 3x2 380 mm (19.5 km)
Secondary armament: 7x2 105mm/ 4x1 150mm/ 4x2 150mm (6.7 km)
torpedoes: 2x3 533mm (6 km range/ 64 knots)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 38,100t / 230m
Almost identical to the earlier Scharnhorst class battlecruiser, but armed with 6, 15-inch main battery guns in 3 turrets, as opposed to the diminutive 283mm (11 inch) guns. Only slight reload, range, and speed penalty were associated with this increased caliber.
SMS Sachen (1925)/ Wutterburg (1926)
Maximum Speed: 28.5 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x2 380mm (18.3 km)
Secondary armament: 6x2 105mm/ 6x2 150mm (7.5 km)
AA: dual purpose 8x2 105mm (4.5 km)/ 12x1 flak 38 (20mm)/ 2x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 41,200t/ 239m
Maneuverability: turning radius 850 m/ rudder shift time 22.4
Bearing the names of the intended last two ships of the FGW era Bayern class dreadnoughts, these two ships were the most powerful super dreadnaughts in the world when completed in 1926. Despite the machinations of the Kaiser, who rued the perceived lack of battleship development by the SDP administration, the fact that these ships were built at all is impressive when other navies around the world were slashing budgets and scrapping ships, as governments focused on domestic affairs during the “Golden Twenties.” Building upon the design of the Bayern class, the Sachen class incorporated not only lessoned learned from the battles fought in the North Sea during the FGW, but also from German inspection of French Battleships interned after The Armistice. This class of German ships introduced the concept of “turtleback armor” whereby armor protecting the ship’s citadel would be angled downward, towards the waterline. The concept, which would be a staple of German dreadnought engineering moving forward, ensured that large caliber shells fired at mid to close range would oftentimes be deflected upwards away from the ships critical components. This armor scheme would make German dreadnoughts exceptionally rugged, especially when the ship was angled towards an opponent, and notoriously difficult to penetrate during battle, unless the German captain was rash enough to present his complete broadside to the enemy. The same protection, unfortunately, did nothing against long range plunging fire or aerial bombs.
SMS Lothringen (1932)/ Elsass (1933)/ Luxenburg (1933)
Maximum Speed: 31 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x2 380 mm (22.4 km)
Secondary armament: 8x2 105mm/ 6x2 150mm (9.4 km)
AA: dual purpose 8x2 105mm (4.5 km)/ 12x1 flak 38 (20mm)/ 2x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)/ 8x2 flakwilling 30 (37 mm)
Torpedoes: 2x4 533mm Vierling torpedoes (6 km range/ 64 knots)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 52,000 t/ 241m
Maneuverability: turning radius 850 m/ rudder shift time 12.8
Named after the Imperial provinces of Alsace-Lorraine and Luxenburg, the ships of this class would later be recognized by historians as arguably the finest to ever fly the flag of the Kaiserliche Marine in the SGW era. The combination of firepower, versatility, and manueveraility of these ships would endear themselves not only to thier crews and Naval historians, but earn the healthy respect of her adversaries.
Building upon the model of the Sachen Class, the two ship classes were very similar from the exterior. The Lothringen class, however, possesd a generational leap forward in terms of powerplant, target aquisition, and maneuverability, and managed an 20% reduction in crew size for normal operation.
The Lothringen Class’ surprising flexible derived from the fact that it could be employed as a proper battleship or as an impromptu battlecruiser. While ‘only’ sporting a 15-inch main armament the Lothringen class boasted the fastest reload time of any Dreadnaught in both the USN and Royal Navy. This class was also unique in that all three ships boasted torpedo tubes (2 quad mounted launchers), which would prove useful on several occasions during the SGW when Royal Navy cruisers, and -in one case a Russian battleship, got too close or when the ship was able to work its way into melee range of the enemy fleet. Drawbacks included her high amount of dispersion when firing at maximum to extreme range. However, the smaller caliber meant that the shells were less likely to over penetrate cruisers, and when combined with the good turret traverse and reload time, made these ships extremely effective in the close confines of the Baltic Sea and the fog draped fiords of Norway.
*Author Note: this class of ship would appear very similar to OTL KMS Bismarck/Tirpitz albeit with superior target acquisition, maneuverability, and robust torpedo compliment.
SMS Großer Kurfürst (1935)/ Bismarck (1935)/ Blucher (1936) / Tirpitz (1936)
Maximum Speed: 30.5 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x2 406 mm (20.3 km)
Secondary armament: 8x2 105mm/ 6x2 150mm (11.5 km)/ dual purpose 8x2 105mm (5.4 km)
AA: dual purpose 8x2 105mm (5.4 km)/ 6x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)/ 26x2 flakwilling 30 (37 mm)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 58,000/ 262m
Maneuverability: turning radius 940 m/ rudder shift time 14.0 sec
Sharing the name with a previous Kaiser's class dreadnought, Großer Kurfürst (translation: "Great Elector", from the title of Frederick William, Elector of Brandenburg) represented the first generation of Super Dreadnoughts built for Kaiser Wilhem II under the direction of Grand Admiral Erich Reader. Moving away from the previous Lothringen class’ emphasis on speed, maneuverability, and rapid rate of fire, the ships of the Grosser Kurfurst class introduced the first massive 406mm (16-inch) sells of any German warship and choose upgrades of armor in the typical German turtle-back scheme to protect itself from enemy fire. Thanks to improved powerplant built by Blohm & Voss the ship only lost .5 knots of speed over the smaller Lothringen Class on paper (in reality, additional AA and deck armor- added after the reports of German observers imbedded with the USN during the Pacific War- resulted in additional speed penalties). The Großer Kurfürst class also continued to build upon the excellent secondary batteries that came to define German dreadnought construction in the post FGW war era, with this class of ships possessing the greatest number of secondary guns and furthest effective range of any warship in the world (only being surpassed by the follow-on German Friedrich der Große class). Operationally the most noticeable differences (besides the increased length and beam) between the Großer Kurfürst and preceding ships was her reduced maneuverability associated with reduced rudder shift time and weight. Sister ships of the Great Elector were named in honor of Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, Field Marshall Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher, and recently deceased Grand Admiral Alfred von Tirpitz.
SMS Friedrich der Große (1938)/Hindenburg(1939)/ Wilhelm II (1939)/ Großdeutschland(1940)
Maximum Speed: 29 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x3 420 mm (24.1 km) (Note 3)
Secondary armament: 10x2 128mm (11.9 km)/ 4x2 150mm (11.5 km)/ dual Pur 10x2 128mm (5.2 km)
AA: dual Pur 10x2 128mm (5.2 km)/ 10x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)/ 8x2 Great 58 (55mm)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 69,000t / 290m
Maneuverability: turning radius 1050 m/ rudder shift time 19.0 sec
A true manifestation of the dream of Kaiser Wilhelm II, the Fredrick the Great class of Super-Dreadnoughts would prove to be the largest and most heavily armed ships every built. Subtlety was not the Friedrich the Great’s forte, because in addition the carrying the most tonnage of any battleship ever built, it was also the longest warship built at that time stretching an impressive 290m from stem to stern. The penalty for carrying the largest shells of any ship afloat was a further reduction in maneuverability and turning radius of 1050m (over half a mile).
Due to her size she possessed a tremendous array of secondaries along with four, triple mounted turrets, sporting 420mm guns (just shy of 17-inches), while the turret traverse speed is slightly inferior to American and British ships of the 1930s.
Her AA is fairly typical of other German battleships, with an adequate long-range punch that sadly does not follow through as planes come closer to the ship itself. Planes that made it past the long-range armament had no trouble hitting her due to her large size and abysmal turning circle. F.D.G’s armor was also typical of German battleship design, with a turtle-back armor scheme that made citadeling her at close range near impossible. Her deck armor is also quite substantial at 50mm, but as would be seen in the battles of 1942/3, would prove catastrophically unequal to the task of defending against British aerial bombs.
F.D.G’s mammoth size and armament was the final culmination of Kaiser Wilhelm’s meddling in Naval affairs. While the Germans continued to build ever larger Super Dreadnaughts that emphasized armor and firepower, the navies of other nations placed less emphasis in these areas. The United States began building up their Battleship fleet in the mid to late 1930s but with an emphasis on range, speed, and target acquisition. The USN Pennsylvania and later Maryland class super dreadnoughts fired a smaller shell than the German F.D Gs, but were almost 10 knots faster, significantly more maneuverable, and had a target acquisition of almost 45km. The Americans also focused much of their research and design on AA gunnery / technology, predicated upon their lessons learned fighting the Japanese during the Pacific War. Thus, while the Grosser Kurfurst / Friedrich the Great classes of battleships would largely rely on a screen of escort ships to protect them from approaching enemy aircraft, American capital ships were more than capable of defending themselves from all but the most overwhelming of air attacks. The Americans, British, and Japanese would also move rapidly ahead with development of purpose-built Aircraft Carriers, long range cruisers, and other asymmetric naval assets throughout the 1930s, leaving the Germans behind in this critical category. Only in submarine design and development would Germany remain a step ahead of her friends and foes alike.
Initially for the supporters of Super Dreadnoughts, the enormous investment in money and material appeared to be prescient, for in the crowning moment of the Kaiserliche Marine during the SGW, a task force of German ships, spearheaded by the Großdeutschland, Elsass, and three battlecruisers (Emden, Schlieffen, and Mackensen) intercepted and virtually annihilated a British squadron comprised of three modern dreadnoughts, and half a dozen cruisers and destroyers, that were supporting the British invasion of Norway. The unfortunate British squadron had expected support from Naval Aviation assets but in a disastrous turn of event, the Royal Navy carrier that was supposed to provide air cover was herself torpedoed and sunk by a German U boat the morning of the engagement, thus the German interlopers were free from airborne harassment. In this battle the Großdeutschland was credited with the destruction of two of the British dreadnoughts with the use of her main battery as well as two cruisers (one of which was sunk via secondary batteries). During this encounter battle, mother nature was also on the side of the Germans, as the high winds and moderate swells interfered with the superior British Y-ranging equipment’s effectiveness, and the reduced early morning visibility allowed the two squadrons to stumble into extremely closer range of one another, a factor that decidedly worked in favor of the Germans and their superior secondaries (not to mention the torpedo equipped dreadnought Elsass and accompanying battlecruisers).
The Germans and the British would both draw stark conclusions from this engagement. Unfortunately for the Germans it would be the wrong lesson, while for the Royal Navy they would learn the proper ones. The Germans discounted the absence of British aircraft as insignificant to the outcome and congratulated themselves (once again) for producing surface ship superior to those of the Royal Navy. This victory would thus encourage the appetites of those seeking a decisive surface engagement akin to the one fought in 1916. The British correctly identified the need for better carrier escorts as well as the necessity of air cover for future operations, and thus the Admiralty began taking steps to ensure that they would enjoy air superiority over the North Sea for any future engagement.
The following year, with the newly completed Graff Zeppelin and Peter Strassen finally operational, the Kaiserliche Marine would sortie virtually the entire High Seas Fleet in that was expected to be the decisive battle of the war. In fact, it turned out to be one of the decisive naval battles of the war, just not as Berlin had hoped. The following engagement would see the inexperienced aircrews of the Zeppelin/ Strassen cleanly outmatched. Both carriers would be lost along with 4 of Germany’s dreadnoughts. This included the super dreadnoughts Hindenburg and Wilhelm II, along with the Blucher, and Sachen. The British Grand Fleet then engaged the retreating High Seas Fleet with losses on both sides, and while the majority of German ships managed to escaped back to the safety of land-based aircraft from the Jutland Peninsula, the battle had already been won for the British. Among the thousands of casualties suffered was indeed German pride and confidence, a fact not lost on Grand Admiral Reader. In his memoirs after the war, Reader would write of the fitting irony, regarding the deceased sovereign and his namesake. For just as the Kaiser, who was to blame for much of Germany’s negligent naval expenditures of the interwar period, was known for his bluster, his namesake SMS Wilhelm II had sunk without ever having had the chance to fire her massive guns in anger.
Note 1: reference "Kaiser Wilhelm II (1858-1941) Part 2.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/tl-191-filling-the-gaps.148857/page-116#post-12932414
Note 2: Only the effective armor piercing (AP) combat ranges of the secondary armaments are listed, being defined as the maximum distance the weapon could penetrate approximately 5 cm of armor. Total ballistic ranges for these smaller secondary armaments were, in many cases, double the distances listed above.
Note 3: The only class of German battleships to deploy 4 triple-turrets, the Friedrich der Große class would present the heaviest broadside of any battleships in the world. In the late 1930s the IJN drew up plans for 5 super-dreadnoughts that would have carried massive 460 mm (18.1 inch) guns, however development was delayed due to financial recoupment costs associated with the Pacific War, and competing Naval priorities. At the outbreak of the SGW these massive Japanese battleships were still in the development phase, with planned production set for the mid to late 1940s.
After the perfunctory list I have gone into specifics on the individual post-FGW capital ships. I did not breakdown the Bayern class dreadnoughts or Defflinger/ Mackensen class battlecruisers, for example, as they are identical to the OTL ships of the same name and information can readily be found in the public realm. It is safe to assume that with minor deviations the Kaiserliche Marine developed ITTL much as it did in OTL up until 1917 as was Turtledove’s implication.
Following the capital ship list is a brief introduction to the battle off the coast of Norway (decisive German victory in 1941) and the follow-on decisive defeat of the German High Seas fleet in 1942. Further details of those surface engagements are being worked by President Mahan and contributing editors.
Kaiserliche Marine (1941)
Dreadnoughts
Bayern Class
SMS Bayern (1916)
SMS Baden (1916)
Sachen Class
SMS Sachen (1925)
SMS Wutterburg (1926)
Lothringen Class
SMS Lothringen (1932)
SMS Elsass (1933)
SMS Luxemburg (1933)
Großer Kurfurst Class
Großer Kurfurst (1935)
SMS Bismarck (1935)
SMS Blucher (1936)
SMS Tirpitz (1936)
Friedrich der Große Class
SMS Friedrich der Große (1937)
SMS Hindenburg (1938)
SMS Wilhelm II (1939)
SMS Großdeutschland (1940)
Battlecruisers
Derfflinger Class
SMS Derfflinger (1914)
SMS Moltke (formerly Hindenburg) (1917)
Mackensen Class
SMS Mackensen (1918)
SMS Prinz Eitel Friedrich (1919)
Scharnhorst Class
SMS Scharnhorst (1925)
SMS Graff Spee (1926)
Emden Class
SMS Emden (1927)
SMS Gneisenau (1928)
SMS Schlieffen (1928)
Kaiser Class (under construction as of June 1941)
SMS Kaiser (1942)
SMS Kronprinz (1942)
SMS Kronprinzessin (1943)
SMS Koing (1943)
Lutzow Class (under construction as of June 1941)
SMS Lutzow (1943)
SMS Roon (1943)
Unnamed (1944)
Unnamed (1944)
Aircraft Carriers
Graf Zeppelin Class
SMS Graf Zeppelin (1942)
SMS Peter Strasser (1942)
SMS Hugo Eckener (1943)
Unnamed (1944)
SMS Scharnhorst/ SMS Graf Spee (1925)
Maximum Speed: 33.5 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 3x3 283 mm (19.9 km)
Secondary armament: 7x2 105mm/ 4x1 150mm/ 4x2 150mm (6.7 km)(Note 2)
torpedoes: 2x3 533mm (6 km range/ 64 knots)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 35,400t/ 230
Dramatically ahead of her time when built, predicated upon lessoned learned in FGW, and capitalizing on the fire control that proved so superior to the British battlecruisers in that conflict. When completed, her rapid firing 283 mm guns had the fastest reload of any Battlecruiser on the planet, and her record setting range (over 7,000 nm) meant this class of Battlecruiser would be ideal for prowling the far reaches of the newly expanded German Empire.
Compared to the Royal Navy’s Admiral Class battlecruisers, which were to be the last British class designed (but not built) during the Great War, the Scharnhorst class would be smaller, with a reduced caliber, than the proposed competitor. German intelligence had been able to obtain rough sketches of the proposed British battlecruiser, and spies in the UK had been reporting back on the progress of the HMS Hood which was laid down in 1916—only to be scraped when the war ended in August of 1917. Anticipating (incorrectly, as it turned out) the British government to eventually make good on their plans for the Admiral class, the German design called for the new battlecruisers to instead rely on superior speed, maneuverability, and superlative marksmanship, to prevail over her enemies. At 34 knots she was 2 knots faster than the Courageous class of battlecruisers (the aborted Admiral class would have also been limited at 32 knots).
SMS Emden (1927)/ Gneisenau (1928)/ Schlieffen (1928)
Maximum Speed: 31 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 3x2 380 mm (19.5 km)
Secondary armament: 7x2 105mm/ 4x1 150mm/ 4x2 150mm (6.7 km)
torpedoes: 2x3 533mm (6 km range/ 64 knots)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 38,100t / 230m
Almost identical to the earlier Scharnhorst class battlecruiser, but armed with 6, 15-inch main battery guns in 3 turrets, as opposed to the diminutive 283mm (11 inch) guns. Only slight reload, range, and speed penalty were associated with this increased caliber.
SMS Sachen (1925)/ Wutterburg (1926)
Maximum Speed: 28.5 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x2 380mm (18.3 km)
Secondary armament: 6x2 105mm/ 6x2 150mm (7.5 km)
AA: dual purpose 8x2 105mm (4.5 km)/ 12x1 flak 38 (20mm)/ 2x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 41,200t/ 239m
Maneuverability: turning radius 850 m/ rudder shift time 22.4
Bearing the names of the intended last two ships of the FGW era Bayern class dreadnoughts, these two ships were the most powerful super dreadnaughts in the world when completed in 1926. Despite the machinations of the Kaiser, who rued the perceived lack of battleship development by the SDP administration, the fact that these ships were built at all is impressive when other navies around the world were slashing budgets and scrapping ships, as governments focused on domestic affairs during the “Golden Twenties.” Building upon the design of the Bayern class, the Sachen class incorporated not only lessoned learned from the battles fought in the North Sea during the FGW, but also from German inspection of French Battleships interned after The Armistice. This class of German ships introduced the concept of “turtleback armor” whereby armor protecting the ship’s citadel would be angled downward, towards the waterline. The concept, which would be a staple of German dreadnought engineering moving forward, ensured that large caliber shells fired at mid to close range would oftentimes be deflected upwards away from the ships critical components. This armor scheme would make German dreadnoughts exceptionally rugged, especially when the ship was angled towards an opponent, and notoriously difficult to penetrate during battle, unless the German captain was rash enough to present his complete broadside to the enemy. The same protection, unfortunately, did nothing against long range plunging fire or aerial bombs.
SMS Lothringen (1932)/ Elsass (1933)/ Luxenburg (1933)
Maximum Speed: 31 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x2 380 mm (22.4 km)
Secondary armament: 8x2 105mm/ 6x2 150mm (9.4 km)
AA: dual purpose 8x2 105mm (4.5 km)/ 12x1 flak 38 (20mm)/ 2x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)/ 8x2 flakwilling 30 (37 mm)
Torpedoes: 2x4 533mm Vierling torpedoes (6 km range/ 64 knots)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 52,000 t/ 241m
Maneuverability: turning radius 850 m/ rudder shift time 12.8
Named after the Imperial provinces of Alsace-Lorraine and Luxenburg, the ships of this class would later be recognized by historians as arguably the finest to ever fly the flag of the Kaiserliche Marine in the SGW era. The combination of firepower, versatility, and manueveraility of these ships would endear themselves not only to thier crews and Naval historians, but earn the healthy respect of her adversaries.
Building upon the model of the Sachen Class, the two ship classes were very similar from the exterior. The Lothringen class, however, possesd a generational leap forward in terms of powerplant, target aquisition, and maneuverability, and managed an 20% reduction in crew size for normal operation.
The Lothringen Class’ surprising flexible derived from the fact that it could be employed as a proper battleship or as an impromptu battlecruiser. While ‘only’ sporting a 15-inch main armament the Lothringen class boasted the fastest reload time of any Dreadnaught in both the USN and Royal Navy. This class was also unique in that all three ships boasted torpedo tubes (2 quad mounted launchers), which would prove useful on several occasions during the SGW when Royal Navy cruisers, and -in one case a Russian battleship, got too close or when the ship was able to work its way into melee range of the enemy fleet. Drawbacks included her high amount of dispersion when firing at maximum to extreme range. However, the smaller caliber meant that the shells were less likely to over penetrate cruisers, and when combined with the good turret traverse and reload time, made these ships extremely effective in the close confines of the Baltic Sea and the fog draped fiords of Norway.
*Author Note: this class of ship would appear very similar to OTL KMS Bismarck/Tirpitz albeit with superior target acquisition, maneuverability, and robust torpedo compliment.
SMS Großer Kurfürst (1935)/ Bismarck (1935)/ Blucher (1936) / Tirpitz (1936)
Maximum Speed: 30.5 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x2 406 mm (20.3 km)
Secondary armament: 8x2 105mm/ 6x2 150mm (11.5 km)/ dual purpose 8x2 105mm (5.4 km)
AA: dual purpose 8x2 105mm (5.4 km)/ 6x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)/ 26x2 flakwilling 30 (37 mm)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 58,000/ 262m
Maneuverability: turning radius 940 m/ rudder shift time 14.0 sec
Sharing the name with a previous Kaiser's class dreadnought, Großer Kurfürst (translation: "Great Elector", from the title of Frederick William, Elector of Brandenburg) represented the first generation of Super Dreadnoughts built for Kaiser Wilhem II under the direction of Grand Admiral Erich Reader. Moving away from the previous Lothringen class’ emphasis on speed, maneuverability, and rapid rate of fire, the ships of the Grosser Kurfurst class introduced the first massive 406mm (16-inch) sells of any German warship and choose upgrades of armor in the typical German turtle-back scheme to protect itself from enemy fire. Thanks to improved powerplant built by Blohm & Voss the ship only lost .5 knots of speed over the smaller Lothringen Class on paper (in reality, additional AA and deck armor- added after the reports of German observers imbedded with the USN during the Pacific War- resulted in additional speed penalties). The Großer Kurfürst class also continued to build upon the excellent secondary batteries that came to define German dreadnought construction in the post FGW war era, with this class of ships possessing the greatest number of secondary guns and furthest effective range of any warship in the world (only being surpassed by the follow-on German Friedrich der Große class). Operationally the most noticeable differences (besides the increased length and beam) between the Großer Kurfürst and preceding ships was her reduced maneuverability associated with reduced rudder shift time and weight. Sister ships of the Great Elector were named in honor of Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, Field Marshall Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher, and recently deceased Grand Admiral Alfred von Tirpitz.
SMS Friedrich der Große (1938)/Hindenburg(1939)/ Wilhelm II (1939)/ Großdeutschland(1940)
Maximum Speed: 29 knots
Artillery: Main Battery 4x3 420 mm (24.1 km) (Note 3)
Secondary armament: 10x2 128mm (11.9 km)/ 4x2 150mm (11.5 km)/ dual Pur 10x2 128mm (5.2 km)
AA: dual Pur 10x2 128mm (5.2 km)/ 10x4 flakvierling 38 (20mm)/ 8x2 Great 58 (55mm)
Gross tonnage/ Length: 69,000t / 290m
Maneuverability: turning radius 1050 m/ rudder shift time 19.0 sec
A true manifestation of the dream of Kaiser Wilhelm II, the Fredrick the Great class of Super-Dreadnoughts would prove to be the largest and most heavily armed ships every built. Subtlety was not the Friedrich the Great’s forte, because in addition the carrying the most tonnage of any battleship ever built, it was also the longest warship built at that time stretching an impressive 290m from stem to stern. The penalty for carrying the largest shells of any ship afloat was a further reduction in maneuverability and turning radius of 1050m (over half a mile).
Due to her size she possessed a tremendous array of secondaries along with four, triple mounted turrets, sporting 420mm guns (just shy of 17-inches), while the turret traverse speed is slightly inferior to American and British ships of the 1930s.
Her AA is fairly typical of other German battleships, with an adequate long-range punch that sadly does not follow through as planes come closer to the ship itself. Planes that made it past the long-range armament had no trouble hitting her due to her large size and abysmal turning circle. F.D.G’s armor was also typical of German battleship design, with a turtle-back armor scheme that made citadeling her at close range near impossible. Her deck armor is also quite substantial at 50mm, but as would be seen in the battles of 1942/3, would prove catastrophically unequal to the task of defending against British aerial bombs.
F.D.G’s mammoth size and armament was the final culmination of Kaiser Wilhelm’s meddling in Naval affairs. While the Germans continued to build ever larger Super Dreadnaughts that emphasized armor and firepower, the navies of other nations placed less emphasis in these areas. The United States began building up their Battleship fleet in the mid to late 1930s but with an emphasis on range, speed, and target acquisition. The USN Pennsylvania and later Maryland class super dreadnoughts fired a smaller shell than the German F.D Gs, but were almost 10 knots faster, significantly more maneuverable, and had a target acquisition of almost 45km. The Americans also focused much of their research and design on AA gunnery / technology, predicated upon their lessons learned fighting the Japanese during the Pacific War. Thus, while the Grosser Kurfurst / Friedrich the Great classes of battleships would largely rely on a screen of escort ships to protect them from approaching enemy aircraft, American capital ships were more than capable of defending themselves from all but the most overwhelming of air attacks. The Americans, British, and Japanese would also move rapidly ahead with development of purpose-built Aircraft Carriers, long range cruisers, and other asymmetric naval assets throughout the 1930s, leaving the Germans behind in this critical category. Only in submarine design and development would Germany remain a step ahead of her friends and foes alike.
Initially for the supporters of Super Dreadnoughts, the enormous investment in money and material appeared to be prescient, for in the crowning moment of the Kaiserliche Marine during the SGW, a task force of German ships, spearheaded by the Großdeutschland, Elsass, and three battlecruisers (Emden, Schlieffen, and Mackensen) intercepted and virtually annihilated a British squadron comprised of three modern dreadnoughts, and half a dozen cruisers and destroyers, that were supporting the British invasion of Norway. The unfortunate British squadron had expected support from Naval Aviation assets but in a disastrous turn of event, the Royal Navy carrier that was supposed to provide air cover was herself torpedoed and sunk by a German U boat the morning of the engagement, thus the German interlopers were free from airborne harassment. In this battle the Großdeutschland was credited with the destruction of two of the British dreadnoughts with the use of her main battery as well as two cruisers (one of which was sunk via secondary batteries). During this encounter battle, mother nature was also on the side of the Germans, as the high winds and moderate swells interfered with the superior British Y-ranging equipment’s effectiveness, and the reduced early morning visibility allowed the two squadrons to stumble into extremely closer range of one another, a factor that decidedly worked in favor of the Germans and their superior secondaries (not to mention the torpedo equipped dreadnought Elsass and accompanying battlecruisers).
The Germans and the British would both draw stark conclusions from this engagement. Unfortunately for the Germans it would be the wrong lesson, while for the Royal Navy they would learn the proper ones. The Germans discounted the absence of British aircraft as insignificant to the outcome and congratulated themselves (once again) for producing surface ship superior to those of the Royal Navy. This victory would thus encourage the appetites of those seeking a decisive surface engagement akin to the one fought in 1916. The British correctly identified the need for better carrier escorts as well as the necessity of air cover for future operations, and thus the Admiralty began taking steps to ensure that they would enjoy air superiority over the North Sea for any future engagement.
The following year, with the newly completed Graff Zeppelin and Peter Strassen finally operational, the Kaiserliche Marine would sortie virtually the entire High Seas Fleet in that was expected to be the decisive battle of the war. In fact, it turned out to be one of the decisive naval battles of the war, just not as Berlin had hoped. The following engagement would see the inexperienced aircrews of the Zeppelin/ Strassen cleanly outmatched. Both carriers would be lost along with 4 of Germany’s dreadnoughts. This included the super dreadnoughts Hindenburg and Wilhelm II, along with the Blucher, and Sachen. The British Grand Fleet then engaged the retreating High Seas Fleet with losses on both sides, and while the majority of German ships managed to escaped back to the safety of land-based aircraft from the Jutland Peninsula, the battle had already been won for the British. Among the thousands of casualties suffered was indeed German pride and confidence, a fact not lost on Grand Admiral Reader. In his memoirs after the war, Reader would write of the fitting irony, regarding the deceased sovereign and his namesake. For just as the Kaiser, who was to blame for much of Germany’s negligent naval expenditures of the interwar period, was known for his bluster, his namesake SMS Wilhelm II had sunk without ever having had the chance to fire her massive guns in anger.
Note 1: reference "Kaiser Wilhelm II (1858-1941) Part 2.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/tl-191-filling-the-gaps.148857/page-116#post-12932414
Note 2: Only the effective armor piercing (AP) combat ranges of the secondary armaments are listed, being defined as the maximum distance the weapon could penetrate approximately 5 cm of armor. Total ballistic ranges for these smaller secondary armaments were, in many cases, double the distances listed above.
Note 3: The only class of German battleships to deploy 4 triple-turrets, the Friedrich der Große class would present the heaviest broadside of any battleships in the world. In the late 1930s the IJN drew up plans for 5 super-dreadnoughts that would have carried massive 460 mm (18.1 inch) guns, however development was delayed due to financial recoupment costs associated with the Pacific War, and competing Naval priorities. At the outbreak of the SGW these massive Japanese battleships were still in the development phase, with planned production set for the mid to late 1940s.
Last edited:
Last year I did a piece on the US home front in SGW. Now I want to do a CS home front piece. Any suggestions for what it might look like? I’m picturing a combination of the OTL Confederate homefront in our civil war and Nazi Germany in WWII.
There never was a Charles XI from either pretender to the French Throne in real life, with the exception of Carlos, Duke of Madrid from the Legitimist claim. He would have been Charles XI of France if he ruled France, but it never happened and died 5 years before the start of the Great War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orléa...ist_claimants_to_the_French_throne_since_1848
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimists#List_of_Legitimist_claimants_to_French_throne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonapartiste
[Headquarters of Major General Arthur MacArthur; Fredericksburg, Virginia; February, 1944]
MacArthur: "Do you mean to tie my hands General Dowling?"
Dowling: "No sir. The orders I gave you are from the War Department. I'm simply the messenger...…….and one of your new army commanders"
MacArthur: "But of course. They sure do want to run everything from Philadelphia, I suppose. I'm pretty sure Morrell doesn't get this level of, uh, constraint."
Dowling: "With respect, sir, General Morrell has advanced hundreds of miles in less than a year. You, however, have advanced...……..significantly less"
MacArthur: "So I'm the commander of Army Group East in name only, it would seem. And Kreuger is being sent to me as well as an army commander? For what purpose?"
Dowling: "For the purpose of ending the war, sir."
Hey all. Sorry to be so delinquent on the next installment of "Army Group East". It should be out soon, but hopefully you'll enjoy the teaser.
MacArthur: "Do you mean to tie my hands General Dowling?"
Dowling: "No sir. The orders I gave you are from the War Department. I'm simply the messenger...…….and one of your new army commanders"
MacArthur: "But of course. They sure do want to run everything from Philadelphia, I suppose. I'm pretty sure Morrell doesn't get this level of, uh, constraint."
Dowling: "With respect, sir, General Morrell has advanced hundreds of miles in less than a year. You, however, have advanced...……..significantly less"
MacArthur: "So I'm the commander of Army Group East in name only, it would seem. And Kreuger is being sent to me as well as an army commander? For what purpose?"
Dowling: "For the purpose of ending the war, sir."
Hey all. Sorry to be so delinquent on the next installment of "Army Group East". It should be out soon, but hopefully you'll enjoy the teaser.
Entirely True for OUR History, but since Harry Turtledove explicitly describes the reigning King of France as "Charles XI" this thread had to rationalise his existence somehow; Craigo (the founder of FILLING THE GAPS), being a jolly clever fellow and outstandingly persistent besides, stumbled onto the fact that Prince Philippe the Comte de Paris was blessed with a short-lived son called Charles of Orleans (born & died in 1875).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philippe,_Count_of_Paris
In the History we know Charles of Orleans died at less than a year old, but in the version of Earth-191 written for FILLING THE GAPS he lived to maturity and was able to claim the crown Napoleon III style after the catastrophic defeat of the Third Republic in the Great War; unfortunately he also turned out to be more "L'etat c'est moi" than Citizen King (possibly because Constitutionalism got his elder brother & father nowhere fast and because Democracy was thoroughly discredited in the eyes of many by the Third Republic's ultimate failure*).
*Although my own take on the character is further pushed towards Absolutism (cloaked under the forms of Constitutional Monarchy) by his identification with Charles VII, mostly due to the parallels between the sad position of France in the aftermath of Henry V & John, Duke of Bedford's successful campaigns - one expects that HM Charles XI devoted quite a bit of time to seeking after his own Joan of Arc - and it wouldn't surprise me if Charles XI was also eager to replay Charlemagne's brutally successful Saxon Wars at the expense of the German Empire.
So in other words you are entirely-correct, but we plead "ALTERNATE HISTORY!"
Shouldn't it be Confederate States Senator, instead of United States?
Here's an interesting filling:
OTL:
The following wars occurred: Ten Year's War (10 October, 1868-28 May, 1878), Little War (26 August 1879-3 December 1880), and the Cuban War of Independence (February 24, 1895–February 15, 1898). The first two wars were Spanish victories, while the last one was an America-Cuban victory and part of the Spanish-American War (April 1898-August 1898). The Spanish-American War resulted in an American victory, resulting in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines being given to the Unite States.
Dominican Restoration War (1863–1865) resulted in a Dominican victory against the Spanish. In 1867 and 1869, the Dominican government applied to be annexed by the United States, but the proposition failed in Congress. The Dominican Republic would eventually be occupied by U.S. forces until it was left alone after World War I.
TL-191:
It would be interesting to see how possible a Spanish-Confederate War would have occurred for possession of island territory in the Caribbean. Perhaps it would have eventually gotten involved in Spain's colonial wars later, instead of sooner. Eventually, this conflict would have resulted in both Cuba and Porto Rico (as it was called back then) being annexed to the Confederacy, even if Turtledove didn't include the latter in the books. At first, I would have included Santo Domingo (as it was called back then for the Dominican Republic) in this possible annexation with or without a proposition from its government, but then I thought about how unlikely the Confederacy would have wanted to have a border next to a "black republic". Or... if they annex it, they would just ignore Haiti.
The years between 1868-1878 for the Caribbean would have seen either the creation of Spanish-speaking nations independent from Spain, or become Confederate territory with the exception of British and Danish colonies.
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_War_of_Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Restoration_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Santo_Domingo#Annexation_proposal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_War_of_Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish–American_War
OTL:
The following wars occurred: Ten Year's War (10 October, 1868-28 May, 1878), Little War (26 August 1879-3 December 1880), and the Cuban War of Independence (February 24, 1895–February 15, 1898). The first two wars were Spanish victories, while the last one was an America-Cuban victory and part of the Spanish-American War (April 1898-August 1898). The Spanish-American War resulted in an American victory, resulting in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines being given to the Unite States.
Dominican Restoration War (1863–1865) resulted in a Dominican victory against the Spanish. In 1867 and 1869, the Dominican government applied to be annexed by the United States, but the proposition failed in Congress. The Dominican Republic would eventually be occupied by U.S. forces until it was left alone after World War I.
TL-191:
It would be interesting to see how possible a Spanish-Confederate War would have occurred for possession of island territory in the Caribbean. Perhaps it would have eventually gotten involved in Spain's colonial wars later, instead of sooner. Eventually, this conflict would have resulted in both Cuba and Porto Rico (as it was called back then) being annexed to the Confederacy, even if Turtledove didn't include the latter in the books. At first, I would have included Santo Domingo (as it was called back then for the Dominican Republic) in this possible annexation with or without a proposition from its government, but then I thought about how unlikely the Confederacy would have wanted to have a border next to a "black republic". Or... if they annex it, they would just ignore Haiti.
The years between 1868-1878 for the Caribbean would have seen either the creation of Spanish-speaking nations independent from Spain, or become Confederate territory with the exception of British and Danish colonies.
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_War_of_Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Restoration_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Santo_Domingo#Annexation_proposal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_War_of_Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish–American_War