TL-191: Featherston's Finest - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the CSA and Freedom Party

[Alterwright]

By the way, might one ask if this is the best place to share some ideas and ask for some assistance in developing the Confederate States Army Air Corps/Air Force/Air Army? (I've been trying to develop some ideas in detail, but would appreciate some fresh eyes on the subject & my thoughts concerning same).

Hm? Why not! I already changed the title of the thread anyway to be more "inclusive". That way more talk about the other branches can be made, including the Confederate Navy, the Confederate Marines, the Confederate Air Force, and all the other smaller sub-divisions and military organizations.

So go for it! I don't really mind either way, the subjects in threads change frequently anyway!

 

[Alterwright]

I'd be happy help but Alterwright as OP has final say on this but if you have requests for a pic and would like to exchange thoughts, you can always shoot me a PM.

You know, you guys don't have to ask my permission. You can do whatever honestly. This whole thread's been leaning toward equipment and vehicles for a while!

So then why stop at just the army and air force? We're gonna leave the navy out of this now? The Marines? The militia? Lets include them!

 

[Alterwright]

Freedom Party Vanguard sounds cool. The FPV.

Oh my god, why didn't they just use acronyms more. That's, like, quintessentially American, for both the CS and US.

 

[Trotsky]

By the way, given this thread was originally created to arm Freedom Party Guards, I wanted to share one idea that had occurred to me - that the Freedom Party Guards, a Paramilitary Organisation intended to operate against Domestic Opposition across State lines (and act as an alternative to the CS Army, should Featherston et al ever need to crack down on the Butternut Boys), might well produce Front Line units only after the abortive Forrest Coup (though I may be mistaken in my assumptions about that timeline).

More to the point, I would like to suggest that these Front Line military units could be called the Freedom Party Vanguard (in the same way that one has the original SS AND the Waffen SS).

Pinkard pitches Koenig the idea of sending guardsmen to the TX panhandle at the beginning of The Grapple - early 1943. Forrest's Bunker Plot takes place almost a full year later, 1944, almost one third into IATD. Around the time of the latter, the Confederate central government had more or less ceased to exist at this point, and I doubt there was anyone in place to start toying around with names.

 

[Alterwright]

SV42 Cerberus. Duel 20mm AA guns mounted in a turret on the FV38.

View attachment 408189
Too good a name not to use.

Ey, multiple heads? Multiple auto-canons? Both spit fire? Seems legit! Yeah, good theme going here with using the FV38 Coyote's hull for different iterations sporting different weapons. That's the turret of a German AA gun, I know that for sure, but this one has two guns instead of four (I think the German one had four).

Hey! You think its possible to up-gun the FV38 Coyote? The 6 pdr./57mm gun might need to be replaced to keep up with US tanks sporting bigger guns and thicker armor. There any way to squeeze a bigger gun into the FV38 turret?

 

[Alterwright]

- One imagines that the "Crocodile" would be an amphibious vehicle (probably most useful when crossing the Ohio and the other major rivers on various fronts); possibly an upgrade of a more soft-skinned original (a distinct improvement that remains something of a rattletrap).

- "Zouave" would be an especially excellent name for a French design licensed by the Confederate States of America (or vice versa).

- One imagines that the "Sharpshooter" would be an upgrade of the "Rifleman" (basically motorised artillery, rather than Armoured Fighting Vehicles, though the Sharpshooter comes a little closer than the Rifleman).

- For some reason "Jackrabbit" makes me think of a motorcycle, rather than tracked vehicle.

- "Ranger" and "Hunter" make me imagine a rough country vehicle (something more along the lines of a troop transport than a battle-line vehicle); I'd put money on their being purpose-built to hunt insurgents.

Yeah, we still need an amphibious tank/vehicle for the Confederates. Given the terrain they need to cross, vehicles with excellent traits suitable for fording and crossing rivers would be a priority. Might need to look into Japanese or American designs from our time to get an idea. This would also include non-combat amphibious vehicles as well, like the DUKW.

I think I'd like "Ranger", "Hunter", or "Trooper" to be associated with vehicles comparable to the Jeep or other rugged off-road wheeled stuff, both for the recon role, raiding role, and logistics role. The Italians, for example, had a sweet looking recon car called the SPA-Viberti AS.42 - or just the "Sahariana" for short. It was the Italian's answer to what the Long Range Desert Group had and it was a pretty solid design in my opinion - able to hold machines guns, an auto-canon, or even mount a light infantry gun. Something like would be perfect for the Confederates operating on the deserts and plains near Texas, Sonora, Baja, and Chihuahua. Very rugged and rough looking too.

Heh, "Jackrabbit" for a motorcycle would be cool. If not that, then a Confederate name using one of the tribes names they had in Sequoyah - like "Seminole" or "Comanche".

 

[Alterwright]

Pinkard pitches Koenig the idea of sending guardsmen to the TX panhandle at the beginning of The Grapple - early 1943. Forrest's Bunker Plot takes place almost a full year later, 1944, almost one third into IATD. Around the time of the latter, the Confederate central government had more or less ceased to exist at this point, and I doubt there was anyone in place to start toying around with names.

So I was right! "The Grapple" and "In at the Death" just kind of bled into one in my mind I guess. Either way, Featherston already had Freedom Party men on the front lines by 1943. All in a desperate attempt to stave off the yankees.

 

[cortz#9]

Ey, multiple heads? Multiple auto-canons? Both spit fire? Seems legit! Yeah, good theme going here with using the FV38 Coyote's hull for different iterations sporting different weapons. That's the turret of a German AA gun, I know that for sure, but this one has two guns instead of four (I think the German one had four).

Hey! You think its possible to up-gun the FV38 Coyote? The 6 pdr./57mm gun might need to be replaced to keep up with US tanks sporting bigger guns and thicker armor. There any way to squeeze a bigger gun into the FV38 turret?

The German "Ostwind" had one 3.7 cm cannon on a Pz.IV IOTL and the "Wirbelwind" had four 20 mm cannons also in a Pz.IV. I only used two 20 mm guns to have the SPAAG look a little different.

It was always my plan to put a 75mm in the Coyote but I was busy today and quite frankly just plain forgot about it.

 

[cortz#9]

You know, you guys don't have to ask my permission. You can do whatever honestly. This whole thread's been leaning toward equipment and vehicles for a while!

It's always polite to ask.

 

[Alterwright]

So here's a stupid idea! For uniforms this time!

I really want to know what you guys think of the Freedom Party Guardsmen bringing back a few articles of uniform clothing from the Civil War. I'm talking specifically about the fez worn by the Zouaves on both the Union and Confederate sides of the Civil War.

Now, I'm not advocating that the Freedom Party Guardsmen universally adopt the fez, but I'd argue that certain national or states militias during this time might bring it back as a way of boosting fighter morale and harkening back to the glory of the Civil War days. I can at least see certain groups of the Freedom Party Guardsmen adopting the fez on a regional basis, such as when units are policing areas of the Deep South and fighting against black guerrillas.

Its not a totally silly or exotic idea in the context of a WWII era conflict I feel. The Italian Army and Fascist Blackshirt Militia actually wore the fez in North Africa, Sicily, and Italy, and the famous French Zouaves (yes THOSE Zouaves) were still kicking around in WWII, wearing a far less flashier uniform, but still sporting a modified version of their iconic headgear (although the one they wore in 1940 was distinctly more North African in style)

Here's a few pictures of the fez, from the Confederate "Louisiana Tigers" Zouaves, the Blackshirts, and WWII French Zouaves.

So why the fez in particular you ask? I dunno. Looks kind of distinct and unique to me really. Just a bit of variety. And there's historical precedence to me, if a bit flimsy. In the beginning of the Civil War there was a bit of a Zouave craze going around on both sides. The Yankees and Confederates raised companies and regiments with exotic looking Zouave uniforms based on the French ones of so much fame. The North had more money to raise such regiments and was more prevalent with them, BUT the South raised companies of Zouaves of their own. Some were considered elite even. The Zouave phase fizzled out at the end of the Civil War in our timeline. In TL-191 the Civil War ends in 1862. By 1881 after the Second Mexican War the United States would want nothing to do with Britain and France, and would likely even change their uniforms around to have less of a French look to them (the cut and color of their uniforms, the iconic french kepi style "forage cap"). But the Confederates? Maybe! I can certainly see the Freedom Party on a regional basis adopting unit patches and badges taken from the banners of famous Confederate regiments of the Civil War and even some units adopting names. This would even extent to certain uniform choices, primarily, in this case, headwear.

Or not.

 

[Alterwright]

The German "Ostwind" had one 3.7 cm cannon on a Pz.IV IOTL and the "Wirbelwind" had four 20 mm cannons also in a Pz.IV. I only used two 20 mm guns to have the SPAAG look a little different.

It was always my plan to put a 75mm in the Coyote but I was busy today and quite frankly just plain forgot about it.

Could call it the FV38M-A2 if ya want! to signify the change or alteration! Would still be called the Coyote of course!

 

[cortz#9]

FV38M-A2 Coyote with 75 mm gun and co-axial MG.

 

[Alterwright]

FV38M-A2 Coyote with 75 mm gun and co-axial MG.

View attachment 408360

Oh that's beautiful! Look at that gun! Now this looks like a proper up-gunned version of the Coyote! Like it got sharper teeth and a nastier bite. I can see this being deployed either in early 1942 or late 1942, after Ohio is taken and after the Confederates beat off failed offensives in Virginia in 1941. Really looks nice with the new gun and coaxial on here and really looks like a main line tank for the Confederates. Would definitely still serve along side the older 57mm armed FV38M-A1 Coyotes too (US tankers would probably refer to large formations of Confederate tanks as "packs" or something, definitely would say that of they were seeing groups of Timber Wolves )

 

[Trotsky]

re the fez thing: no.

If HT bothered to tell us that the guardsmen wore camo as their distinctive combat uniform, he would've also mentioned the fez. Why include one bit of info but not the other?

 

[Alterwright]

re the fez thing: no.

If HT bothered to tell us that the guardsmen wore camo as their distinctive combat uniform, he would've also mentioned the fez. Why include one bit of info but not the other?

Turtledove doesn't mention other things either in his books, as much as he does include bits of info on other things. He can't cover everything of course and it would be impractical to describe a Freedom Party uniform in detail. He does the same with the Mexican uniforms as well, their most distinctive feature being the yellowish-khaki color. But He doesn't mention the Mexican helmets or other articles of clothing or equipment either, and yet does for the CS and even US uniforms. Despite him even making reference to the Confederates adopting a "coal-scuttle" like helmet, quite a few fans of the series here on this site picture the Confederates with US M1 or even British style helmets. He keeps it vague yet descriptive enough to get an idea. We as readers have to fill out the blanks and details

For me? I'd say a blue fez with a red tassel, the same colors as the Freedom Party flag, if a few units of the FP guards in some states wore them. All just opinion of course, but it'd surely make an exotic look

 

[Alterwright]

SPAAG SV41. Coyote with turret removed and a 3.7 cm auto-cannon on a rotating mount.

View attachment 407901

The gun lost a little clarity when I shrunk it. needs an animal name, open to suggestions.

Hey, I don't think this one has been named yet!

So since the SV42 is called the "Hellhound" (or Cerberus, it was unclear), if we're going by demonic dog names... how about just "Black Hound". Kinda redundant though lol

But I would like to say that either Hellhound or Black Hound is perfectly acceptable for Confederate name. Apparently there is an Appalachian folkloric tale that in Kentucky and West Virginia there is a black dog like creature that hunts and stalks the back mountain roads.

Or we can give it to one of the barrel killers that haven't been named yet Either is fine.

 

[Alterwright]

So the good thing is that we seem to have the main line tanks named. I like the names and designations at least!

• FV38M-A1 Coyote - 57mm gun
• FV38M-A2 Coyote - 75mm gun
• FV42H Dire Wolf - 20 pdr. gun
• FV44M Timber Wolf - 17 pdr. gun

We also seem to have the light tanks named as well:

• FV38L Stalwart - 25mm Hotchkiss gun
• SV38 Stalwart "Flamer" - flamethrower

 

[Catsmate]

Interesting, I didn't know that.

It does make his life in TL-191 probably very different than OTL. John was born in 1855 to a polygamist gunsmith father (who opened a business in Ogden in 1852). Given that these events predate Turtledove's PoD John Browning will still be born, but he may die in the fighting between Federal forces and Mormon rebels. He's might stay in Georgia (assuming he goes missioning there) but his historical connections to the Winchester company are unlikely.

 

[cortz#9]

Hey, I don't think this one has been named yet!

So since the SV42 is called the "Hellhound" (or Cerberus, it was unclear), if we're going by demonic dog names... how about just "Black Hound". Kinda redundant though lol

But I would like to say that either Hellhound or Black Hound is perfectly acceptable for Confederate name. Apparently there is an Appalachian folkloric tale that in Kentucky and West Virginia there is a black dog like creature that hunts and stalks the back mountain roads.

Or we can give it to one of the barrel killers that haven't been named yet Either is fine.

Black Hound sounds good, I'll edit in later.

So the good thing is that we seem to have the main line tanks named. I like the names and designations at least!

• FV38M-A1 Coyote - 57mm gun
• FV38M-A2 Coyote - 75mm gun
• FV42H Dire Wolf - 20 pdr. gun
• FV44M Timber Wolf - 17 pdr. gun

We also seem to have the light tanks named as well:

• FV38L Stalwart - 25mm Hotchkiss gun
• SV38 Starwart "Flamer" - flamethrower

You misspelled "Stalwart" on the SV38 flamer.

 

[cortz#9]

It does make his life in TL-191 probably very different than OTL. John was born in 1855 to a polygamist gunsmith father (who opened a business in Ogden in 1852). Given that these events predate Turtledove's PoD John Browning will still be born, but he may die in the fighting between Federal forces and Mormon rebels. He's might stay in Georgia (assuming he goes missioning there) but his historical connections to the Winchester company are unlikely.

So his firearm designs would most likely be butterflied, pity.