TL-191: Featherston's Finest - Uniforms, Weapons, and Vehicles of the CSA and Freedom Party

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Alterwright, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    There has been passionate discussion about this multiple times before on other threads, but lets start another exclusive one here!

    Simple enough, so lets ask the real question here: What do you think the uniforms, equipment, and weapons of Featherston's Freedom Party Guards looked like?

    This includes ranks patches, insignias, decals, badges, coats, helmet covers, hats, camouflage patterns, trousers, tunics, leggings, pants, buttons, ammo pouches, bread-bags, holsters, the works. Not one idea will ever be the same, but that's the beauty of it all. Be as vague or detailed as you need to be! Visuals are welcomed!

    Don't be shy, I know you Turtledove "Southern Victory" fans have thought about this before! If you want you can narrow it down to a time period between 1934-1944, when the Freedom Party was firmly in control of the Confederacy.
     
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  2. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    In general, the uniforms would be similar to either British or real-world American ones.

    The Confederate Freedom Party uniforms would strongly emphasize butternut colored pants, along with a white shirt, a red/blue tie, military boots, and a "reverse" pocket protector that contains the St. Andrews' Cross with reverse colors, instead of an armband.
    [​IMG]
    Credit: https://www.deviantart.com/jakarnilson/art/Freedom-Party-Poster-26722331

    Instead of a Roman Salute, they would use the Raised Fist and pump it in the air while yelling either of the following: "Freedom! Freedom! Freedom!" or "Praise Featherston!"
    [​IMG]

    In the front cover of Blood and Iron, there is a symbol of literal Grey Eagle that represents either the Confederate Freedom Party or the Confederacy.
    I've always been a fan of including an alligator or a pair of alligators alongside the eagle, if not a complete replacement, as the National Animal of the Confederacy/Confederate Freedom Party.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I like the idea of a Confederate version of the Gestapo, but they should be given an interesting name: Overseers
     
  3. Trotsky Trotsky

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    I remember it said that the camp guards wore stetsons, so they probably resemble today's state highway patrolmen.
     
  4. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    So I had to look that up, because I had no idea that was what the hat was called. Here are some pictures of the ones I found:

    OFFICERS-WOOL-FELT-CAMPAIGN-HAT-MTC-CORD-6.JPG post-2801-1206810587.jpg
    41DVL6IKWAL._US500_.jpg

    And yeah! Okay, I'd believe that honestly. Concentration camp guards can either look like highway patrolmen or, in cases were funds might be lacking, something like a 1930s chain gang guard, with a tunic and pants colored khaki/butternut.

    And heck I've even found some uniforms to match that. Here are a few examples inspired by U.S. Cavalry units from the Philippines:

    PSCAVALRY.jpg

    Matter of fact the uniforms for the U.S. Army in the Philippines might serve as a good basis for a Confederate "early war" uniform. Most of the colors are brown or khaki/butternut and the cut is distinctly American.
     
  5. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Yes, I feel the same way too, to be honest. I lean toward the uniforms looking heavily American, but with equipment inspired by or directly copied from the British Army, particularly the M 1937 Webbing. To me I feel the uniform would be the American M1941 field uniform with a gun-metal gray M1 steel helmet combined with a British style webbing system. That's how I see the standard grunt though, no idea what the general staff would look like. I also do have a specific idea for the Freedom Party Guardsmen out in the field, but will wait to mention it.

    bf8b296d78855a4d6e3cf8ebebd1b166.jpg large_000000.jpg

    ^^^ For the Confederate Army (and by extension Freedom Party Guardsmen), with appropriate insignia and such, with possible British webbing.

    Oh yeah! I saw that picture on DA. Honestly that is probably the most accurate representation of any Freedom party uniform we are going to get. Its alluded to multiple times so its hard not to miss the description. Now that you mention it I'd be open to the idea of the "clenched fist" being a kind of secondary or unofficial symbol used on armbands by the Freedom Party Guardsmen or Stalwarts. If not then possibly used on a collar patch in a similar fashion as an "SS" style rune.

    A Confederate Gestapo would be interesting to see honestly! I think Clarence Potter is part of an intelligence gathering agency in the Confederacy right? Perhaps the department had a name? They'd need a name of course. Overseers reminds me of the Fallout universe's overseers.
     
  6. Trotsky Trotsky

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    Potter was in military intelligence. He was part of the Army chain of command, not that of the Freedom Party.
     
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  7. Trotsky Trotsky

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    Also, in my mind the Freedom Party Waffen-Guardsmen were basically wearing the U.S. Marines uniform worn at Tarawa and beyond.
     
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  8. Pangur The Cat Donor

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    I visualized them as wearing uniforms along the lines of the waffen SS
     
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  9. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Well I'm glad you mentioned that because I just had this commissioned by a really awesome artist to make just that!


    LoINmnp-1.png

    Credit: https://www.deviantart.com/finerskydiver - Artist Fineskydiver from DeviantArt.

    ^^^ Here it is, the artist's interpretation of the military version of the Freedom Party Guardsmen's uniform ( or Waffen-Guardsmen, whatever you want to call them). The uniform on the far left is a Confederate version of the M1941 field uniform. Note the British style M1937 webbing and gray M1 Helmet with "Confederate Eagle". For the examples in the center and right, we have an interpretation of the camouflage they could have possibly worn. This particular pattern is from our timeline, the USMC "tan" pattern. The black "X"s you see are just a decal of the Confederate flag colored in to blend easier into the camo.

    He got creative with the "SS style" rune collar patches. They're simple, but I think they work. A simple St. Andrew cross on the left and a private's chevron flipped 90 degrees, in the colors of the Freedom Party.

    While I do believe the Freedom Party might have used a camo pattern close to that of our timeline's USMC, other camo patterns still can be used - like the British Para's "brush stroke" pattern on their Denison Smocks if you want a more British influence.
     
  10. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Yes, I definitely agree. Like an American version of the camo pattern I feel. I wouldn't go as far as to say they would have the same exact camo patterns as the actual SS, but hey, I could be wrong! I'm saying they wouldn't have exact copies of it because the designs were tailored with European foliage and terrain in mind. Camo designers are weird like that. But again I could be wrong! And besides its all speculation anyway.

    And if you really want to take the SS parallels even further, I'd say the Freedom Party would develop their own insignia in a similar vein as the SS. Like making "runes" or utilizing Confederate symbology into their insignia. All I can think of is them using the St. Andrew Cross, the Southern Cross of Honor, and a few other American symbols like the eagle in their SS rune like insignia and patches.
     
  11. Pangur The Cat Donor

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    That adds up, I vaguely recall a few references to mottled camouflage which is why I was thinking Waffen SS however yeah the US marines had mottled camo as well
     
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  12. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Yeah, I feel like a lot of readers make that connections honestly, which is fine. I think Turtledove intentionally leaves things vague so that the audience can visualize it themselves. I personally just happened to visualize it as a Confederate version of the USMC camo lol

    Though I'm not sold on the idea. The tan version of the camo was meant for sandy Pacific islands and the green version was meant for Pacific jungles. The only region I can think of where this exact pattern might be used by the Freedom Party Guardsmen is in the Caribbean, like in either Cuba, the Bahamas, Haiti, or Bermuda. For mainland North America it might just be a different color scheme all together!
     
  13. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    All right, so after a bit of searching there are, in fact, some camouflage generator on the internet and I decided to give one a try to make a Freedom Party "Waffen-SS" type camo pattern for them that is not based off either out time lines's version of German, British or American patterns.

    The result below is what I got. Its not perfect and you could argue its too "modern" for what is supposed to be a WWII style camo pattern, but to be fair you could also argue its "too German". To me it kind of feels like a fusion between the splinter pattern and pea-dot pattern with with a different color scheme.

    I used this camo generator: http://www.happyponyland.net/camogen.php

    The idea I had in mind of for the one below was a "Forest Mud" type pattern.

    camogen.php.png

    The one below here is a "Georgia Mud" pattern, with a reddish-brown and green color scheme.

    camogen-1.php.png
     
  14. Pangur The Cat Donor

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    Both very plausible color wise and as for to German, well thats near enough impossible to avoid with the folk we are talking about.Well done
     
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  15. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    I like the first one for keeping in mind the khaki/butternut, gray, and brown uniforms the Confederates wear. I have a thing for theming I guess!

    Any ideas for infantry webbing or kit? Helmets and such?
     
  16. Pangur The Cat Donor

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    M1 US Helmet?
     
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  17. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Definitely, yes. For the U.S. Army, despite Turtle implying otherwise, it seems a lot of fans like to give the Stahlhelm to the yankees due to a heavy German influence that permeates their military. For the Confederates they tend to lean toward a more traditional American or British look. And nothing's more symbolically American than an M1 helmet.

    I'd wager that the Freedom Party Guards would also wear a camo version of the field cap as well.

    15174697320.jpg

    Kinda like this, but not in the USMC design. More akin to the regular army uses. it would have the Confederate eagle on it, in the same way the Germans designed their M43 field cap.
     
  18. Pangur The Cat Donor

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    I very agree which sometimes makes to hard to visualize uniforms as the Confederates behaved like Nazis yet were so close to the UK. I can vaguely see the Mexicans and maybe reserve Confederates in ww1 British kit and the front line confederates equipped rather differently. The question is that was true would be what influences would be in play? Maybe a French influence?
     
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  19. Alterwright "You were never even a player."

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    Influence on Confederate uniforms you say? I'd say a heavy British influence during the Great War for sure, but less so by the time of the Second Great War. It would probably go as far as webbing, weapons, and boots, but as for the actual uniform and helmet its really up in the air (even if Turtledove did refer to the Confederate Army adopting a "coal-scuttle" design for its helmets, which is a nod to the German Stahlhelm buuuuut, we're just gonna ignore that lol. Seems better to give that one to the U.S. in my opinion)

    I can see rear echelon units of the Confederate Army being equipped with their surplus bolt action Tredegars instead. Same goes for their "volkssturm" inspired Veterans' Brigades and National Assault Force, though I could be wrong. This means they also might be issues surplus equipment from the Great War, including Brodie helmets and 1908 Pattern Webbing.

    For a French Influence though... well maybe someone else may have a different say on that! I've got my own ideas of course, but I'd rather see someone else's thoughts! XD

    I do however see more of a French influence among troops of the Mexican Army. They kinda did in real life, being issued with Adrian helmets.
     
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  20. Pangur The Cat Donor

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    Point taken on the Mexicans. As for the Confederates I forgot about this when I was posting earlier, the Vickers helmet So its quite possible to keep to the British influence and keep to canon!
     
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