TL-191: After the End

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@David bar Elias Why didn’t the Nord-du-Québec (North of Quebec) a largely indigenous (more than 2/3) but little populated state either go independent or join the USA? In IOTL the reason why the Quebec independence referendum failed because the native population didn’t want to be a part of a state that they had no stake in or was seen in their interest (helps they don’t see themselves as Quebec or Canadian). It seems more likely they would declare independence later down the line than be part of a state that would marginalise them, as most of their brethren would be in the USA. What’s the story there?

Why Americans would had bothered about opinions of some natives? And if they try to secede Quebec hardly is going to accept that.

Is there a Greg Abbott in this timeline?

Last OTL person born ITTL is in 1925 so no, he is not exist. And even fi there is same name guy he is completely different from OTL.
 
Why Americans would had bothered about opinions of some natives? And if they try to secede Quebec hardly is going to accept that.



Last OTL person born ITTL is in 1925 so no, he is not exist. And even fi there is same name guy he is completely different from OTL.
The Americans might not have cared, but Quebec somehow caring enough to stop them makes no sense. Why would they want to keep any non-European English speakers in their country make any sense. What would possibly convince a country that hardly thinks about Natives at all, to stop a group from succeeding from them? Especially when IOTL the First Nations made it clear they would never accepting being apart from their native brethren in a state that doesn’t care about them, especially once the Quebecers achieve their goal of seceding.
 
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The Americans might not have cared, but Quebec somehow caring enough to stop them makes no sense. Why would they want to keep any non-European English speakers in their country make any sense. What would possibly convince a country that hardly thinks about Natives at all, to stop a group from succeeding from them? Especially when IOTL the First Nations made it clear they would never accepting being apart from their native brethren in a state that doesn’t care about them, especially once the Quebecers achieve their goal of seceding.
Look at the international situation: losing territory to secession marks you as a loser. The US was powerful enough to overcome its malaise and wreak holy vengeance on its enemies but Quebec doesn't have that luxury. It'll crush them under the boot and francify them.
 
Also quite frankly, do the Quebecois indigenous even have the manpower or material support for a secession? Wanting something doesn't mean you're able to actually achieve it or even going beyond complaining about it.
 
Look at the international situation: losing territory to secession marks you as a loser. The US was powerful enough to overcome its malaise and wreak holy vengeance on its enemies but Quebec doesn't have that luxury. It'll crush them under the boot and francify them.
Well francify them would be useless as they’re generally trilingual (Indigenous, English, and French). I just don’t see the Quebec government want anything to do with a bunch of Natives they could care less about, or why their own population would have any support for attempting to crush them. All this implies either side would want a war.
 
Also quite frankly, do the Quebecois indigenous even have the manpower or material support for a secession? Wanting something doesn't mean you're able to actually achieve it or even going beyond complaining about it.

I can't see Quebecois indigenous having manpower or military capacity to defeat Quebec. Not sure if there was even lot of intrest to be independent anyway. If Quebec says no for secession them have not any chances unless USA help them but I can't see why USA would bother.
 
I can't see Quebecois indigenous having manpower or military capacity to defeat Quebec. Not sure if there was even lot of intrest to be independent anyway. If Quebec says no for secession them have not any chances unless USA help them but I can't see why USA would bother.
They're a useful American proxy and the only other nation on the continent north of Mexico, seeing them lose face through either a successful secession or a persistent insurgency would lead to suspicion the US can't keep order in its own backyard.
Well francify them would be useless as they’re generally trilingual (Indigenous, English, and French). I just don’t see the Quebec government want anything to do with a bunch of Natives they could care less about, or why their own population would have any support for attempting to crush them. All this implies either side would want a war.
They'd Francify them by requiring French in all public services and punishing them for English. Quebec would under no circumstances see them leave with territory, but encouraging them to just leave is on the table if they're that opposed to keeping them.
 
They're a useful American proxy and the only other nation on the continent north of Mexico, seeing them lose face through either a successful secession or a persistent insurgency would lead to suspicion the US can't keep order in its own backyard.

They'd Francify them by requiring French in all public services and punishing them for English. Quebec would under no circumstances see them leave with territory, but encouraging them to just leave is on the table if they're that opposed to keeping them.
U.S. wouldn’t care if that territory succeeded or not, because somehow having a separate state either in the Union or as second trade partner wouldn’t really make them look weaker on the world stage as it isn’t their fault Quebec lost to a guerrilla war. Also Quebec punishing the natives for speaking English would start the insurgency, not weaken or somehow kill separatism. The natives wouldn’t be leaving with any of Quebecs European French territory if they left. Forcefully requiring them to speak French, goes against the Quebec update where it showed one leader attempt to preserve the small Anglophone minority as dismissed by a lack of interest. They’re not going to be murderous with a population less than 50,000 especially when they have no interest to deal with them or even think about them. The Quebec government in IOTL thought so little of the natives (outside of mutual opposition to the anglophone government), that the main independence leader for the referendum blamed Jews and Greeks for the failure (even though the natives were the crucial factor in the loss).
 
I would also think that the Republic of Quebec would also provide sanctuary for francophone populations in occupied Canada. As a Metis, I would think that the Quebecois would call home the Metis as they have a common heritage and language. So Quebec wouldn't be hostile to its indigenous populations either. The lands beyond the river are hard to get to. I would think Quebec would grant some form of autonomy to their indigenous peoples, or maybe even pull a New Zealand and have seats in the National Assembly.
 
I would also think that the Republic of Quebec would also provide sanctuary for francophone populations in occupied Canada. As a Metis, I would think that the Quebecois would call home the Metis as they have a common heritage and language. So Quebec wouldn't be hostile to its indigenous populations either. The lands beyond the river are hard to get to. I would think Quebec would grant some form of autonomy to their indigenous peoples, or maybe even pull a New Zealand and have seats in the National Assembly.

And Quebec might too take lot of anti-Actionist refugees from France.
 
TTL's Peaky Blinders analog would certainly be interesting.

Does the Orange Order still exist ITTL?

Any analogue to Peaky Blinders in TTL would be interesting, though far more dystopian compared to our world.

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There is an analogue to the Orange Order in TTL, which has a presence in the United Kingdom, as well as in nations such as Australia and New Zealand.
 
In that same vein, what about St Pieere & Miquelon? I assume the US, though maybe they were offered to Quebec for good will?
 
@TheLastKnight I’m not denying the fact that the Metis and Quebecers have a good relationship (culture and being half-European). I’m just saying there should be autonomy for the Natives who aren’t Metis, and at least should be a mention if their were any secessionist tendencies in the north.

@David bar Elias Can you please tell us why the North decided to stay? Did they like the Basque get full autonomy? I ask because a Cree leader in IOTL with other native groups opposed Quebec succession. While the Quebec government would treat them better than the previous government, it would be nice to know how they were/are treated.
 
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View attachment 884220
@David bar Elias Why didn’t the Nord-du-Québec (North of Quebec) a largely indigenous (more than 2/3) but little populated state either go independent or join the USA? In IOTL the reason why the Quebec independence referendum failed because the native population didn’t want to be a part of a state that they had no stake in or was seen in their interest (helps they don’t see themselves as Quebec or Canadian). It seems more likely they would declare independence later down the line than be part of a state that would marginalise them, as most of their brethren would be in the USA. What’s the story there?

While relations between the indigenous communities of the region and the Québécois government were sometimes strained throughout most of the 20th Century, an organized secessionist movement never developed in the far north of Quebec. The Québécois government would not have allowed any kind of secessionist referendum, and the United States would not have supported the weakening of the Republic of Quebec.
 
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Something I’m wondering: what is the status of spiritualism and occultism in this timeline?

Spiritualism OTL heavily took off after the devastation of the Civil War and given there were several more extremely destructive wars on the North American continent I’m wondering if it had a significantly longer period of appeal or had more revivals.

As for occultism, a lot of late 19th century occultism ( Theosophy, the Golden Dawn, etc.) should be unaffected. Aleister Crowley was born after the POD but close enough to it he or a close analogue probably still exists, but his life probably looks different-which means that any more recent interest in occultism/witchcraft would also almost certainly be different given Crowley heavily influenced Wicca’s founder Gerald Gardner and the 1960’s counterculture figures who took an interest in the occult. Was there anything similar to the 1960’s/1990’s spikes of interest in occultism, witchcraft and/or neopaganism? If so what is the status of these subcultures today?

I’m also guessing the Freedomites were not as into esoteric shit as the Nazis were, which probably means there’s no equivalent to esoteric Nazism and Volkisch paganism probably doesn’t have the same level of appeal.
IDK, there may be some Volkism in Germany. There were those movements in the 20s before the Nazis i think.
 
Can you provide some more information on General Ishii Yamanda, such as what year he was born and what he did before gaining power? I'd also be very intrigued to know how he is remembered by the world in general and in Japan.

Ishii Yamada was born in 1922. He was the son of Ishii Shiro, who, as in our world, eventually commanded the Unit 731, the notorious Imperial Japanese Army unit that engaged in chemical and biological weapons research, along with large numbers of atrocities.

Ishii Yamada attended the Imperial Japanese Army Academy, and graduated in 1944, at the end of the Second Great War. Ishii steadily rose in the ranks of the Imperial Japanese Army during the Japanese invasion of the Russian Empire in the late 1940s, and during the continued Japanese invasion of China in the 1950s. By 1960, Ishii had risen to a position of high command in the China Expeditionary Army, and had managed to secure political alliances within the highest levels of the military regime that governed the Japanese Empire that would eventually secure his appointment as Prime Minister in 1966.

During his time as a military commander in the late 1940s and early 1950s, Ishii became part of a faction of military officers known as the Universal Victory faction, whose adherents believed that the ultimate goal of the Japanese Empire would be world conquest, even at the cost of destructive war on a global scale.

Ishii, like other members of the Universal Victory faction, despised the United States, while dismissing the USA as a weak threat to the Japanese Empire because of its imagined internal divisions and instability stemming from the North American Wars. This kind of contempt for the USA was not limited to the Universal Victory faction within the highest ranks of the Japanese military. It was rooted in the outcomes of the previous wars between the Japanese Empire and the United States in the early 20th Century in which the Japanese had not suffered any serious territorial losses in spite of technically being on the losing side in the two Great Wars.

Ishii was a person with intense hatreds, which was compounded by a level of paranoia that would not have been out of place for Josef Stalin from OTL. Ishii, aside from his xenophobia for anyone who was not Japanese, hated those in the Japanese military and civilian government who disagreed with his beliefs on the necessity of world conquest. The leadership of the Imperial Japanese Navy, which by the 1960s had become skeptical of continuing the invasion of China and was opposed to actively pursuing war with the United States, was viewed by Ishii as a personal enemy.

Historians would later come to a consensus that General Ishii came to power in 1966 over other possible candidates as part of a larger power struggle between the Imperial Japanese Army and the Imperial Japanese Navy for control over the Japanese government and the resources of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Ishii gained support from the Japanese army leadership as a preferred alternative to Admiral Okada Haruka, who did not support continuing the war in China or acting with aggression against the United States and the CDS.

The ultimate result of the rule of General Ishi Yamada was the Fourth Pacific War, which led to the collapse of the Japanese Empire.

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By 2024, Ishii Yamada is remembered in the United States with a level of popular loathing rivalled only by Jake Featherston and Clarence Potter.

Ishii is also remembered with high levels of popular loathing in the nations that suffered devastation during the Fourth Pacific War, especially in China.

In the Republic of Ezo and within the Japanese diaspora, Ishii is hated for his crimes and for bringing about the downfall of the Japanese Empire.

In the Japanese Worker’s Republic, Ishii was blamed for the falll of the Japanese Empire and its catastrophic effects on Japanese society. The Fourth Pacific War was remembered in the JWR as the “Ishii War,” as well as during the rule of the Ecological Union.
 
Just out of interest, I don't suppose you have some ideas for Pablo Picasso, the cubist artist, and a certain Benito Mussolini in the TL ~ 191 universe?

I'd also be interested in reading a biography of Admiral Okada Haruka.
 
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