TL-191: After the End

[FancyHat]

Flag of the United States of America (1945)

Appearing in history books around the world, this flag holds a great deal of cultural significance. The 32 stars represent the 32 states in the Union, a practice continued until the number of states surpassed 60. Additionally, the stars are arranged such that they mirror the pattern of stars on the flag flown at Fort Sumter at the beginning of the Was of Secession. The blue stripes were added in 1918 shortly after the Union's victory in the Great War to represent loyalty to the Union.

Flag of the Confederate States of America

This flag is mostly based on the flag that had been in use since the War of Secession, but the banner of the Freedom Party has been incorporated into the canton. The colors and symbols never had an official meaning but it is apparent how Confederates tended to see themselves as "Americans" for much of the history of the Confederacy. While it is illegal to display the Freedom Party banner in the United States, Quebec, and Texas, this flag has no such restriction. It is still widely condemned as a symbol of racism and oppression.

 

[FancyHat]

North American Allies

Flag of the Republic of Quebec

This flag is based on the earlier provincial flag of Quebec, itself based on a banner carried by Quebecois millitia during the 7 Years' War. The fleurs-de-lis, however, were changed in accordance with a proposal in 1902 to differentiate itself from the provincial flag.

Flag of the Lone Star Republic of Texas

This flag is a combination of two flags flown by the Republic of Texas (before its annexation). The most striking feature is the cannon in the center, derived from a banner flown during the Texan Revolution. The cannon is a symbol of defiance and liberty in Texas. The rest of the flag is the same as the American and Confederate state flag of Texas (although the star is colored black
), and the symbolism is as follows: blue stands for loyalty, white for purity, and red for bravery. Meanwhile, the black star is modified from a Texan independence symbol in 1839.

Flag of the Second Mexican Empire

A simple tricolor defaced with the coat of arms of the Empire. The coat of arms itself is derived from Aztec legend that their gods told them to build a city where they spot an eagle on a cactus eating a serpent, which is now Mexico City. The supporters and crest, meanwhile, are from the Emperor's coat of arms.

 

[CT23]

Two flags I'm curious about:

-Can we see the 60-star USA flag you mentioned?

-Is Ireland's flag any different from OTL Ireland?

 

[Tiro]

Master Kirby, I must say that these are excellent flags!

 

[Blue Moon]

Master Kirby, I must say that these are excellent flags!

Agreed and there will be moar

Over several months I've made a flag for just about every nation, state, and organization in this timeline.

 

[FancyHat]

-Can we see the 60-star USA flag you mentioned?

Actually, after that, the number of stars is reduced to 13 and stays there. You'll see later.

-Is Ireland's flag any different from OTL Ireland?

It doesn't have any reason to be. Ireland's flag was designed well before the POD, and during the Easter Uprising (which, as I recall, still happened in TTL) it came to be widely regarded as the Irish national flag. I thought about defacing it with the Irish coat of arms, but there's just no point.

Master Kirby, I must say that these are excellent flags!

Thanks very much!

 

[FancyHat]

Second Great War: Central Powers

Flag of the German Empire

This flag was designed in 1866 for the North German Confederation. It combines the black and white of the Prussian flag with the red and white of the Hanseatic flags. Unlike the flag of the German confederation, this contained no gold, and thus removed all reference to the Austrian monarchy.

Flag of the Austro-Hungarian Empire

This flag originated as the civil ensign for Austria-Hungary, but was elevated to the status of national flag after their victory in the Second Great War. It displays the coats of arms of Cisleithania (Austria) and the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen (Hungary). Outside of that, the colors have no meaning.

Flag of the Ottoman Empire

For much of the Ottoman Empire's history, its flag was simply a star and crescent on red, the former symbolizing Islam and the latter symbolizing the Sultan. Two green bands were added after the Treaty of Aachen to differentiate the flag of that of Azerbaijan and, additionally, represent the Caliph.

Flag of the Republic of Ireland

The green stripe represents Irish republicanism dating back to the Society of United Irishmen in the late 18th century. The orange stripe symbolizes the Orange Order and, by extension, Protestantism in general. The white in the center represents peace between Catholics and Protestants.

 

[22iron thunder]

Has anyone looked into the space programs of this TL because it might be pretty interesting with a surviving German Empire.

 

[FancyHat]

Has anyone looked into the space programs of this TL because it might be pretty interesting with a surviving German Empire.

An important part of 1964 onward is the "Space Chase" between the US and Germany.

 

[MountainDew17]

"Sam" (MGM, 2011)

An idea that i had the other day

Sam Carsten
born: 1891

Career

1909: Enlists in US Navy

1914: Great War begins, Sam holds the rank of Seaman First Class aboard the battleship USS Dakota. Takes part in the US Navy's assault on the British Naval Base at Pearl Harbor in the Sandwich Islands.
1915: While on liberty in the Sandwich Islands, Sam discovers British Spy, John Liholiho. After Liholiho's arrest and execution, Sam is promoted to Petty Officer 3rd Class.
1916: The Battle of the Three Navies.
1917: Great War ends.

1918: Transferred to Aircraft Carrier, USS Remembrance. Suffers from Influenza, recovers with no permanent effects.
1919: While making a Port-of-Call in Ireland, takes part in suppression of Protestant rebellion
1921: Passes officers exam, promoted to Ensign, and transferred to Destroyer USS O'Brien.
1920's-1930’s: Makes various Ports-of-call throughout the world including Ireland, Britain, Germany, France, Norway, Holland, Russia, Italy, Egypt, Palestine, Spain, Portugal, CSA, Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Gibraltar, Algeria, India, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Manila, and Singapore.
1925: Transferred back to USS Remembrance

1932: Pacific War begins, Sam promoted to Lieutenant JG (Junior Grade)
1934: Pacific War ends

1941: Second Great War begins. Sam takes part in Raid on Charleston and the defense of Bermuda.
1942: Battle of Midway. USS Remembrance Sunk, Sam promoted to Lieutenant (O-3). Sam is given command of the Destroyer Escort, USS Josephus Daniels, which he will command until 1945.
1942-1945: While in command of the USS Josephus Daniels, Sam takes part in gun running to Cuba and Ireland, sinks a British Merchant Cruiser,
takes part in several raids of the confederate coast, takes part in the US Invasion of Haiti, and takes part in a top secret exchange with the German High Seas Fleet.
1944: Great War ends
1945: Sam promoted to Lieutenant Commander. Late in the Year, Sam is transferred to the command of the Light Cruiser, USS Thomas Custer.

1947: Sam promoted to Commander, transferred to Command of Heavy Cruiser, USS Pittsburgh.

1950: Indian War begins
1951: Sam promoted to Captain, placed in Command of the Battleship USS New Hampshire
1953: Indian War ends

1954: Sam accomplishes lifelong goal and is promoted to Rear Admiral and placed in command of the USS Theodore Roosevelt Battle Group.
1959: After 50 years of service in the United States Navy, Sam retires at the age of 68. He receives a final promotion to Vice Admiral after he is nominated by Socialist President Mike Mansfield. Sam retires to the Sandwich Islands.

1960: Sam is tapped by President-elect, Irving Morrell, to be Secretary of Defense.
1961: Sam confirmed by Senate as Secretary of Defense by unanimous vote. CIA’s Montego Bay invasion fails in Jamaica, the Jamaican Communist Government remains in place.
1962: Jamaican Missile Crisis: Chinese Communist Government moves medium-range nuclear missiles into Jamaica. Secretary Carsten orchestrates Naval Blockade of Jamaica. Sent as Chief negotiator to end the Crisis. Sam receives 1962 Nobel Prize.

1963: The Compact of Democratic States, CDS, (OTL NATO), begins the 4th Pacific War against the Japanese Empire

1968: Sam is seen as the likely VP Nominee for the Democratic Party as Vice President John F. Kennedy, the heavy frontrunner for the Democratic Nomination for President, sweeps the Primaries. However, this all comes to a screeching halt when Vice President Kennedy is assassinated by Confederate die-hard William Jefferson Blythe III on June 4th, 1968, at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, California, shortly after being declared the winner of the California Democratic Primary, and thus having clinched enough delegates to win the nomination.
1969: Sam, who was planning to retire anyway, is unceremoniously fired by Socialist President George McGovern. McGovern’s popularity, which was already low, plummets to a point from which it never recovers. On his final day in office, President Morrell presents Sam with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, stating “Without Sam, The United States as we know her, would not exist. He exemplifies what every hard working American should strive to be.

1972: New York Senator Joshua Blackford sweeps the Democratic Primaries. With the help of his cousin and Campaign Manager, Yossel Reisen Jr., Senator Blackford taps Sam to be his running mate. Senator Blackford and Former Secretary of Defense Sam Carsten are unanimously nominated at the Democratic Convention in Boston. Sam’s “American Dream” speech, is a major hit, and his line “I know the American Dream still exists, because I’m living it”, becomes the campaigns theme. The Blackford/Carsten ticket crushes President McGovern and Vice President Pat Brown in a route.
1973: Sam Carsten is inaugurated as Vice President of the United States.
1975: The 4th Pacific War ends with a CDS Victory and the collapse of the Japanese Empire.
1976: President Blackford and Vice President Carsten are re-elected in a massive landslide.
1980: Secretary of State George Enos Jr. wins the Democratic Nomination, choosing House Minority Leader Gerald R. Ford as his running mate. At the Democratic Convention in Milwaukee, Vice President Carsten’s “Only in America” speech, while not as big as his legendary “American Dream Speech in 1972, it still is a huge hit. “Only in America can a man come from a small farm in Montana, and see the world. Only in America, can a man rise from a lowly Seaman to Vice Admiral. Only in America, can a boy who grew up on a lonely Montana farm, become the Vice President of the greatest nation in the history of the world. In America, it has been said that if your work you’re hardest, and never stop believing, that you can accomplish anything. Tonight, I stand here before you as living proof of that. Only in America”. In November, Secretary Enos is narrowly defeated by Socialist Governor Carl Martin of California.
1981: Sam retires for the final time, to a modest estate in Hawaii.

1992: Democratic Senators Al Gore of Tennessee and Bob Kerrey of Nebraska are elected President and Vice President of the United States, defeating Socialist President Jerry Brown of California and Vice President Bill Bradley of New Jersey. Gore and Kerrey are the 1st Democrats to occupy the Oval Office since 1981.
1993: In his Inaugural Address, President Gore pledges to restore the “Carsten Promise” to America. On May 11th, 1993, former Vice President Sam Carsten passes away at the age of 102. President Gore calls for a National Week of Mourning, to honor “One of America’s Greatest Heroes”.

In 2011, on what would be Vice President Carsten’s 120th Birthday, the film “Sam” is released nationwide. The Biopic/Epic chronicles the unforgettable true story of Sam Carsten, America’s most unlikely Vice President.

Starring:

Dylan Baker as Sam Carsten (1935-1993)
Chad Duell as Sam Carsten (1909-1925)
Michael Weatherly as President Joshua Blackford
Greg Kinnear as President Irving Morrell
Nathan Fillion as Vice President John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Matthew Perry as White House Chief of Staff Jonathan Moss
TJ Ramini as White House Chief of Staff Yossel Reisen Jr.
Christian Slater as President Mike Mansfield
William H. Macy as Secretary of State George Enos Jr.
Michael Rodrick as Governor George Enos III
Steven Culp as Secretary of State Robert F. Kennedy
Martin Sheen as President Carl Martin
Sean Murray as Pat Cooley (1942-1943)
Jamie Sheridan as Pat Cooley (1969-1993)
Sheamus Dever as Thad Walters (1942-1945)
Adam Baldwin as Thad Walters (1954-1959)
Tom Selleck as Thad Walters (1993)
Scott Wolf as Lou Manfree
David Schwimmer as Myron Zwelling
Nathan Kress as Petty Officer 3rd Class Vic Crossetti
William deVry as President Al Gore
Don Johnson as Vice President Bob Kerrey

 

[rob2001]

I like it. Are you going to be doing any other biographies like that? One person I'm interested in is Armstrong Grimes.

 

[scourge]

Sam Carsten developed Melonoma at the of In At the Death so how would he live to be 102?

 

[MountainDew17]

The wonders of modern medicine and because it makes a better story

 

[scourge]

We have a hard time dealing with Melonoma now. What miracle meds would TL 191 have that we don't?

 

[Medicus]

Sam Carsten developed Melonoma at the of In At the Death so how would he live to be 102?

Precisely my thought. Sam survives both wars and despite the odds goes from an enlisted man to Lieutenant Commander. Then after all that he develops melanoma from decades of sun exposure and dies an early death in late 1940s-early 1950s.

 

[MountainDew17]

2011's "Sam" was followed by 2 years later by "Jack", which focused around the events at the Ambassador Hotel on June 4th, 1968. On the Day of the California Democratic Presidential Primary, Vice President John Fitzgerald "Jack" Kennedy arrives with his brothers, Attorney General Joseph Patrick "Joe" Kennedy Jr, Secretary of State Robert Francis "Bobby" Kennedy and Massachusetts Senator Edward Moore "Ted" Kennedy in Los Angeles. Kennedy is heavily favored to win the primary against New Mexican Senator Barry Goldwater in the primary, giving him enough delegates to secure the Democratic Nomination. That night, after the expected win, Vice President Kennedy plans to announce Secretary of Defense Sam Carsten as his running mate.

Meanwhile, President Irving Morrell, his Chief of Staff, Jonathan Moss, and Secretary Carsten, are flying into LA as well aboard Air Force One.

The movie focuses on the events of that day, which culminates in the assassination of Vice President Kennedy by Confederate die-hard William Jefferson Blythe III.

Much of the same cast is used, and Nathan Fillion's portrayal of the slain Vice President earns his his 1st Oscar nomination and win.

 

[FancyHat]

Because it's pretty inconvenient to post all my flags on the thread three or four at a time, I'll be posting a link to a website I'll be collecting them on. Hopefully you're still interested then.

 

[HongCanucker]

Because it's pretty inconvenient to post all my flags on the thread three or four at a time, I'll be posting a link to a website I'll be collecting them on. Hopefully you're still interested then.

Why not create an Imgur album that you can link to us, and add each new flag to that album as you work on the lot? That's pretty convenient for us.

 

[Berkeley2017]

What percentage of African Americans from the prewar South survived their Holocaust? And in America today, does blacks make up a lesser percentage of the US population today? And if you see a black person in any of the non-Carribbean regions of America, will you more likely think he is an immigrant or a "traditional" (descended from slaves like most African-Americans today OTL) black person?

 

[Nivek]

What percentage of African Americans from the prewar South survived their Holocaust? And in America today, does blacks make up a lesser percentage of the US population today? And if you see a black person in any of the non-Carribbean regions of America, will you more likely think he is an immigrant or a "traditional" (descended from slaves like most African-Americans today OTL) black person?

That is a question i was making other thread(filling the future and gaps), i think
IIRC,
Some data to mention:

A special note is worth observing. During the twentieth century, there was an enormous mass migration of blacks from the deep south into the north. In 1900; 90% of all blacks lived in the south; but by the 1970s, it was only 50%.

Form Wikipedia 1900 8,833,994 11.6% 18.0%
1930 11.9 million 9.7% (lowest) 13%

LET'S SAY pararelik 6 millons black die.... 60% all black and 25% all confederates gone.... WOW.

Acording the books, black in north exist, mostly liberated ones since pre secession war and some who flew north during the few year of open frontier during post war. Not more that 1-2 Millon at much(they exist and are full citizen but the white americans care little about those and the feel this mutual).

So otl numbers of black in modern times (2010's) this 42,020,743, if USA start fullifying the full equality manifiesto and support... i can imagine like 10-12 millons for nowadays. yeah 60 year for pre war numbers....

people think holocaust was bad, this was far worse.

About Racial Aptituted, with 'Equality' and horror of racism, they will melloed down, but black in 'U TL191 SA north' non dixie-carribean areas either one emigrated post population reduction or being there since before the mason-dixon division so are people with long or short heritage respectly.