You would probably need to transport it as syrup and make the taffy later, but basically you put hot maple syrup on a patch of snow, roll it around a stick, then eat it. It is delicious.
Three Sisters' Brother (aka the Franco-Haudenosaunee Alliances)
- Thread starter Ibn Chaldun
- Start date
Good job, you two. Now I will be very disappointed if this TL doesn't feature Richelieu eating a mapple syrup waffle.
Chapter X: Sunday Morning Census
Chapter X – Sunday Morning Census
*
“Morning dear”, Tekakwitha heard from her back inside the bedroom. Good! The Sleepyhead was finally awake as well. She had to talk to him. This new idea she had, it was brilliant.
Those of her people that chosen to live with the French, clearly were on the fringes of society and treated as second class. This had to change. And her vector for that was knowledge. The adults should be helped integrating into the society, for example by teaching them French, so they could make a living.
And their children should be in taught like the European ones. They equally should learn trades and therefore gain the same opportunities as the French.
This only was a part of her job, overseeing the native affairs. The most important issue of the colony, if anyone asked her.
She made sure that her people living with the French were treated justly, she assisted them wherever she could, she adjudicated over the minor quarrels between the different Peoples and she oversaw the attempts to convert her people. Her interference in this matter was of utmost important, she was sure. The Missionaries, mainly Jesuits, arrived by ship and had no clue about the culture they were about to enter. Some of the earliest ones to head for her people had done more harm than good in spreading the true faith. So she made sure that every single one of them at least had basic knowledge of the language, culture and customs of the people he was about to enter.
With the growing number of marriages between French men and native women there arose another issue. The French seemed to underestimate their wives, giving them surprisingly little respect for her people’s taste. She had witnessed it with Samuel in the beginning of their marriage. Her husband luckily had quite soon seen the error of his ways. Many of his landsmen were equally wise. The anecdotal stories of the wife’s relatives showing up and...convincing...the husband to behave better, seemed to have had quite the impact on the Europeans. Especially among farmers, the knowledge of farming the Three Sisters clearly played a role.
However, society in Canada was not the same everywhere and local differences had to be considered. She divided the population in four groups.
The first she called the “Urbans”, who she figured at around 600 people. Living in the three main towns Quebec, Trois-Riviers and Montreal, they were an amalgam of all population groups. There were Catholic French and there were Huguenots combined with natives living with them. While Quebec itself was mixed religion, Trois-Riviers was the Huguenot center and Montreal predominantly Catholic. Some of the members of this group, especially the ones from Quebec, had the bad habit of returning to France after a couple years, a development Samuel and she wanted to change, maybe though encouraging more marriages.
The second group were the “Rurals”, around 500. They were running small farms along the shoreline of the Great River between the three cities. Majority of them were Huguenots, who had come over in entire families. The minority of Catholics and the originally single Huguenots had generally married a native wife.
The third group she called the “Westerners”, around 200. These had been predominately single Catholic men who had moved to the area of the Great Lakes. They lived there either in the two settlements of Cataraqui and Niagara or in remote cabins or directly with natives. Native wifes were very common among this group. In the Fur War and the Epidemic both Haudenosaunee had lost many men, and now the French seemed to compensate these losses. This group was primarily dealing with the Fur Trade. Farming did exist especially around Niagara, however this was a minority occupation. Some had taken up the native habit of cultivating tobacco. Also noteworthy were the Jesuit missionaries of Michilimackinac.
And the fourth, small group, the “Coureur des Bois” were quite obscure and numbered less than 50 people. They had essentially run away from the colony and now roamed the woods, making a living as independent fur traders. Some she figured, most have settled down with a native tribe of their choice.
Living alongside these Groups of French and their native women were other natives families, mainly along the Urbans and the Westerners. Notably, this included the Montagnais of Quebec and some christianized remnants of the Wendat and Algonquin around Montreal. With the westerners she had no clear overview, but it was mainly Christians from far Western Tribes around Michilimackinac and Niagara. These were the people whose first advocate she was. Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka preferred to stay on their own, except for the women who had married Europeans.
***
Champlain had just woken up. And already his wife was pestering him with her ideas. Uhh! He loved her, he really did. And of course her ideas were good, as they always were. But sometimes she acted like her topics were the only ones of importance and every single one of her thought the epitome of wisdom. He had to care about so much more matters. Little and insignificant things such as economy, administration, diplomacy and defense for example. Could he not at least enjoy a little rest on a Sunday morning? Ah, now he was there again, running though these issues in his mind.
The economy was still the main concern of his. Without being profitable, the Dugua's company would no longer send additional colonists. So keeping the finances in order was paramount. There were some strains of income, but none of them was perfect:
While the backbone, the fur trade, went smooth and the pelts the natives each summer brought to Montreal were plentiful and of great quality, there were some clouds on the horizon. Rhagenratka and Haudenosaunee had cornered the market and more and more were aware of their goods value and so drove an ever harder bargain.
Champlain had to do something against that. Breaking this monopoly was the main driver behind encouraging French settlement around the Great Lakes.
Secondly, there was a small, but growing number of shops and manufacturers in Quebec.
Reducing the reliance on French imports could be major cost saver, while at the same time jumpstart an internal economy.
Third, there was farming. That really was not built for export, but still integral to the colony. Due to the farmers in the Great River valley, the towns could be fed. And these farms had some interesting byproducts. There was the maple sap they harvested in spring. The syrup the cooked was still mostly used locally as a sugar replacement, yet there was some promise it could become a valuable trade commodity.
Especially, Queen Regent Marie de Medici had been rather fond of it and old Pierre Dugua was doing his best to popularize it with the upper echelons of French nobility.In the west there was another interesting option. Some inhabitants of Cataraqui had begun to plant tobacco. Honestly, Champlain thought, their product was pretty bad. But maybe, somehow this could grow into a cash crop as well.
In total, he now ruled over a vast realm with more than 2000 people under his jurisdiction, so he needed an administrative center. On Cap Diamant, the rock above Quebec he had ordered the construction of a Fortress, Chateau St. Louis, to be the governor’s residence, the administrative center and the main protection for his capitol and the farms located upriver.
Diplomatically, French, Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka now had a true alliance. In the west, rarely did any other nation even offer the semblance of hostility in the presence of this behemoth.
However, in the South-East there was concern. The new Dutch colony, Ft. Orange, was dangerously close. Settled in 1618 right downstream from the towns of the Kanienkehaka.
Already some of his allies sold their furs there. Most were loyal, but still this was a rather unfortunate situation, that could drive prices up further.
Luckily the Dutch seemed to have made their first mistake already. Rumors said that they had signed a treaty, not unlike the one Champlain and the Haudenosaunee, with the Mahican, another ancestral enemy of the Kanienkehaka.
Still these Dutch had to be limited. The Kanienkehaka River Valley was French and had to stay French. The less other Europeans interfered on it the better.
When he asked Jean de Biencourt to invest more into his southern domains, the old man astonishingly enough not called him “stupid” as he almost habitually did, but instantly agreed.
Given how dependent the Acadia was on cod, he had instantly seen the danger of the Dutch establishing themselves in the vicinity.
*****
*
“Morning dear”, Tekakwitha heard from her back inside the bedroom. Good! The Sleepyhead was finally awake as well. She had to talk to him. This new idea she had, it was brilliant.
Those of her people that chosen to live with the French, clearly were on the fringes of society and treated as second class. This had to change. And her vector for that was knowledge. The adults should be helped integrating into the society, for example by teaching them French, so they could make a living.
And their children should be in taught like the European ones. They equally should learn trades and therefore gain the same opportunities as the French.
This only was a part of her job, overseeing the native affairs. The most important issue of the colony, if anyone asked her.
She made sure that her people living with the French were treated justly, she assisted them wherever she could, she adjudicated over the minor quarrels between the different Peoples and she oversaw the attempts to convert her people. Her interference in this matter was of utmost important, she was sure. The Missionaries, mainly Jesuits, arrived by ship and had no clue about the culture they were about to enter. Some of the earliest ones to head for her people had done more harm than good in spreading the true faith. So she made sure that every single one of them at least had basic knowledge of the language, culture and customs of the people he was about to enter.
With the growing number of marriages between French men and native women there arose another issue. The French seemed to underestimate their wives, giving them surprisingly little respect for her people’s taste. She had witnessed it with Samuel in the beginning of their marriage. Her husband luckily had quite soon seen the error of his ways. Many of his landsmen were equally wise. The anecdotal stories of the wife’s relatives showing up and...convincing...the husband to behave better, seemed to have had quite the impact on the Europeans. Especially among farmers, the knowledge of farming the Three Sisters clearly played a role.
However, society in Canada was not the same everywhere and local differences had to be considered. She divided the population in four groups.
The first she called the “Urbans”, who she figured at around 600 people. Living in the three main towns Quebec, Trois-Riviers and Montreal, they were an amalgam of all population groups. There were Catholic French and there were Huguenots combined with natives living with them. While Quebec itself was mixed religion, Trois-Riviers was the Huguenot center and Montreal predominantly Catholic. Some of the members of this group, especially the ones from Quebec, had the bad habit of returning to France after a couple years, a development Samuel and she wanted to change, maybe though encouraging more marriages.
The second group were the “Rurals”, around 500. They were running small farms along the shoreline of the Great River between the three cities. Majority of them were Huguenots, who had come over in entire families. The minority of Catholics and the originally single Huguenots had generally married a native wife.
The third group she called the “Westerners”, around 200. These had been predominately single Catholic men who had moved to the area of the Great Lakes. They lived there either in the two settlements of Cataraqui and Niagara or in remote cabins or directly with natives. Native wifes were very common among this group. In the Fur War and the Epidemic both Haudenosaunee had lost many men, and now the French seemed to compensate these losses. This group was primarily dealing with the Fur Trade. Farming did exist especially around Niagara, however this was a minority occupation. Some had taken up the native habit of cultivating tobacco. Also noteworthy were the Jesuit missionaries of Michilimackinac.
And the fourth, small group, the “Coureur des Bois” were quite obscure and numbered less than 50 people. They had essentially run away from the colony and now roamed the woods, making a living as independent fur traders. Some she figured, most have settled down with a native tribe of their choice.
Living alongside these Groups of French and their native women were other natives families, mainly along the Urbans and the Westerners. Notably, this included the Montagnais of Quebec and some christianized remnants of the Wendat and Algonquin around Montreal. With the westerners she had no clear overview, but it was mainly Christians from far Western Tribes around Michilimackinac and Niagara. These were the people whose first advocate she was. Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka preferred to stay on their own, except for the women who had married Europeans.
***
Champlain had just woken up. And already his wife was pestering him with her ideas. Uhh! He loved her, he really did. And of course her ideas were good, as they always were. But sometimes she acted like her topics were the only ones of importance and every single one of her thought the epitome of wisdom. He had to care about so much more matters. Little and insignificant things such as economy, administration, diplomacy and defense for example. Could he not at least enjoy a little rest on a Sunday morning? Ah, now he was there again, running though these issues in his mind.
The economy was still the main concern of his. Without being profitable, the Dugua's company would no longer send additional colonists. So keeping the finances in order was paramount. There were some strains of income, but none of them was perfect:
While the backbone, the fur trade, went smooth and the pelts the natives each summer brought to Montreal were plentiful and of great quality, there were some clouds on the horizon. Rhagenratka and Haudenosaunee had cornered the market and more and more were aware of their goods value and so drove an ever harder bargain.
Champlain had to do something against that. Breaking this monopoly was the main driver behind encouraging French settlement around the Great Lakes.
Secondly, there was a small, but growing number of shops and manufacturers in Quebec.
Reducing the reliance on French imports could be major cost saver, while at the same time jumpstart an internal economy.
Third, there was farming. That really was not built for export, but still integral to the colony. Due to the farmers in the Great River valley, the towns could be fed. And these farms had some interesting byproducts. There was the maple sap they harvested in spring. The syrup the cooked was still mostly used locally as a sugar replacement, yet there was some promise it could become a valuable trade commodity.
Especially, Queen Regent Marie de Medici had been rather fond of it and old Pierre Dugua was doing his best to popularize it with the upper echelons of French nobility.In the west there was another interesting option. Some inhabitants of Cataraqui had begun to plant tobacco. Honestly, Champlain thought, their product was pretty bad. But maybe, somehow this could grow into a cash crop as well.
In total, he now ruled over a vast realm with more than 2000 people under his jurisdiction, so he needed an administrative center. On Cap Diamant, the rock above Quebec he had ordered the construction of a Fortress, Chateau St. Louis, to be the governor’s residence, the administrative center and the main protection for his capitol and the farms located upriver.
Diplomatically, French, Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka now had a true alliance. In the west, rarely did any other nation even offer the semblance of hostility in the presence of this behemoth.
However, in the South-East there was concern. The new Dutch colony, Ft. Orange, was dangerously close. Settled in 1618 right downstream from the towns of the Kanienkehaka.
Already some of his allies sold their furs there. Most were loyal, but still this was a rather unfortunate situation, that could drive prices up further.
Luckily the Dutch seemed to have made their first mistake already. Rumors said that they had signed a treaty, not unlike the one Champlain and the Haudenosaunee, with the Mahican, another ancestral enemy of the Kanienkehaka.
Still these Dutch had to be limited. The Kanienkehaka River Valley was French and had to stay French. The less other Europeans interfered on it the better.
When he asked Jean de Biencourt to invest more into his southern domains, the old man astonishingly enough not called him “stupid” as he almost habitually did, but instantly agreed.
Given how dependent the Acadia was on cod, he had instantly seen the danger of the Dutch establishing themselves in the vicinity.
*****
Februar 1621: The Champlains refelct on the state of the colony. Tekakwitha is concerned about the status of the Natives in the colony and wishes for better education. Samuel has concern about the Fur Trade Revenue and seeks to find other cash crops. He is encouraging French colonists to go West. Because of the abundant marriages between French and Natives incentivized by the genderr imbalance within the haudenosaunee a significant metis population is beginnng to grow. Also, a fortress is being built above Quebec. While the Dutch settle Ft. Nassau, the Acadians want to counter this development by putting more focus on their southern regions. Demographically, the cities are of mix of religions while the Great River Valley Farms are dominated by Huguenots. The West is dominated by Catholics. Converted natives are almost exclusively Catholic.
Overview of Canadian settlements (including non-wife natives):
Quebec - 300 (350)
Montreal - 200 (300)
Trois-Rivières - 100 (170)
Cataraqui & surrounding - 50 (150)
Niagara & surrounding - 50 (100)
Farmers in the Valley - 500
Farmers/Traders/Isolates in the West - 100
Coureur de bois - <50
Edit: Adjusted Population Numbers (again)
Overview of Canadian settlements (including non-wife natives):
Quebec - 300 (350)
Montreal - 200 (300)
Trois-Rivières - 100 (170)
Cataraqui & surrounding - 50 (150)
Niagara & surrounding - 50 (100)
Farmers in the Valley - 500
Farmers/Traders/Isolates in the West - 100
Coureur de bois - <50
Edit: Adjusted Population Numbers (again)
Last edited:
2.895 People? That's like so much better from OTL 
, if my calculation is correct in ten years we'll have around 6.000 people in the colony! What's a big boon comparing to OTL, where we just reached these numbers by the 1660s. We have to remember that in the Early 18th Century the Little Ice Age diminished a bit, resulted in a population boom on the North American Colonies (including New France, that went triple the population during the period), so we'll be able to see even more population for the future, this without counting in another peaks in migration from France, although it depends on the butterflies.
Unrelated but, @Ibn Chaldun, apart from racist Johann, there were any good swiss souls that selected to remain in New France?
, if my calculation is correct in ten years we'll have around 6.000 people in the colony! What's a big boon comparing to OTL, where we just reached these numbers by the 1660s. We have to remember that in the Early 18th Century the Little Ice Age diminished a bit, resulted in a population boom on the North American Colonies (including New France, that went triple the population during the period), so we'll be able to see even more population for the future, this without counting in another peaks in migration from France, although it depends on the butterflies.Unrelated but, @Ibn Chaldun, apart from racist Johann, there were any good swiss souls that selected to remain in New France?
Indeed sounds delicious
Yeah I agree thats the easiest solution.Counting the natives, eh? They wont escape disease. But 6k in 1630 is pretty much what i have in mind, however some of these will be in Acadia.
Edit: That's the power of native women. Each one that married a French does not have to be ferried accords the Atlantic which allows much higher growth. And ITTL you have a significant gender imbalance in the Haudenosaunee (War and Army centered smallpox outbreak).
This influx of course is not sustainable because the diseases, but the second Metis generation of course is demographically sustainable and therefore allows for a solid natural growth
Actually I have the growth rate increase arond 1700. Not as dratically, yet significantly.
Acadia is underpopulated and very catholic. Hard Question: Where in western Europe do we have suppressed Catholics?
I so wanted to do something with them. But essentially, they are great at close order warfare. And..I mean...a Haudenosaunee Tercio would be hilarious but kinda useless in North American native warfare.
Edit: Such a butchered post
Last edited:
formion
Banned
This source places the metis mixed couples at 0,3%
This book mentions that in 1663 there were 3 mixed marriage couples in Quebec and 1 in Trois Rivieries. https://books.google.com/books/about/Gateways_to_Empire.html?id=NhaeDwAAQBAJ
What has changed in this timeline so that the attitudes of the French are so vastly different? We are talking about 100 times more mixed marriages than OTL. Peoples attitudes do not change so dramatically because a colonial captain/leader took an indigenous wife to promote mixed marriages.
One place that the catholics were second class citizens was Ireland by the way. After the flight of the wild geese there were irish regiments in the french army ( post 1690).
This book mentions that in 1663 there were 3 mixed marriage couples in Quebec and 1 in Trois Rivieries. https://books.google.com/books/about/Gateways_to_Empire.html?id=NhaeDwAAQBAJ
What has changed in this timeline so that the attitudes of the French are so vastly different? We are talking about 100 times more mixed marriages than OTL. Peoples attitudes do not change so dramatically because a colonial captain/leader took an indigenous wife to promote mixed marriages.
One place that the catholics were second class citizens was Ireland by the way. After the flight of the wild geese there were irish regiments in the french army ( post 1690).
IOTL literally we didn't have any native woman on the main cities for the french, as the St. Lawrence Iroquoians were destroyed [probably] by the Mohawk in the Late 16th Century. The lack of intermixed marriages in the main cities is because there weren't "ready" native woman, the Métis emerged (without any state-sponsor or colonial government promoting it) in the Great Lakes Area exactly because of that, with many of them more connected to their wifes' tribe than to the canadien government in Quebec (and because of that mainly weren't counted in the population censuses of the colony), the attitudes weren't vastly different, they just managed to implement this attitude in a vastly different form than IOTL (by basically settling native women in the St. Lawrence as part of their alliance with the Iroquois and Neutrals).
We. Need. Irish. Canadiens.
formion
Banned
@Talus I of Dixie thanks for the clarification! I understand the situation better now.
There differences to OTL, as mentioned below. However, you make a valid point for the Lower St. Lawrence valley (aka Quebec). There the native population is not significantly higher than OTL. - Again I'm really grateful for your input! The quality (inc. Sources) is just amazing.
And yes - Ireland is indeed what im hinting at.
Very good points as well.
If I may add one thing: The local epidemic and the war did cause a massive Gender imbalance among the Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka, especially within the fertile age groups. I think it is fair to say that the suddenly lose almost 1500 to 1700 young men. Yes, their adoption customs could make up a bit for it, but still that is giant loss.
Now, 500 young, single French men show up in the west. Even in OTL, a connection with Europeans was seen as prestigous among many native groups (esp. the Objibwe generally are touted as an example). And these nations urgently need men. Don't get me wrong, but humans will human in that situation. And this means a metis population, which I indeed intend to become detatched from the western government quite quickly, a development that will have (at least) one chapter for its own. The matrilineal customs of the Iroquoians are really helpful there.
A word on diseases: Since the western settlers aren't going there straight from the ships, they are less likely to bring them just yet, but in the medium run the natives will be hit as OTL. Only now there is a metis population with a better resistance.
The epidemic I caused was transported there by a dormant carrier, so the outbreak was limited to the warriors (=men). It was the main change I enacted to facillate the intermarriage. Champlain's marriage was primarily a vehicle to legitimize such unions and a way of increasing cultural awareness within the French colonial administration, to make for example the Jesuit missionaries more effective.
Last edited:
Could I ask for more details about the epidemiological situation?
Iirc, you "gifted" the Haudenosaunee and Wendat with a variola major outbreak. This is a highly contagious disease, so on what grounds does your assumption that the initial outbreak was contained to the warriors stand? I suppose it is because of the low population density; but wouldn't the displacements of people during the war counteract this? I would be highly surprised if not a single infected warrior didn't make it back home to spread the disease.
Second, you mention the metis as immune to the disease - is it because immunity (well, at least resistance) is transmitted genetically? (I really have no clue about disease, sorry).
Third, I suppose after a number of waves of the same disease, the native population should be immunised in turn : how long did it historically take? Is there a chance of the population bouncing back, say, in the XVIIIth century instead of undergoing a long decline under the pressure of war, diseases, and colonisation?
Last, you mentioned you were interested in the effects the epidemics had on the survivors - any hint on cultural changes brought among the first nations by these outbreaks, OTL and TTL?
Iirc, you "gifted" the Haudenosaunee and Wendat with a variola major outbreak. This is a highly contagious disease, so on what grounds does your assumption that the initial outbreak was contained to the warriors stand? I suppose it is because of the low population density; but wouldn't the displacements of people during the war counteract this? I would be highly surprised if not a single infected warrior didn't make it back home to spread the disease.
Second, you mention the metis as immune to the disease - is it because immunity (well, at least resistance) is transmitted genetically? (I really have no clue about disease, sorry).
Third, I suppose after a number of waves of the same disease, the native population should be immunised in turn : how long did it historically take? Is there a chance of the population bouncing back, say, in the XVIIIth century instead of undergoing a long decline under the pressure of war, diseases, and colonisation?
Last, you mentioned you were interested in the effects the epidemics had on the survivors - any hint on cultural changes brought among the first nations by these outbreaks, OTL and TTL?
Indeed it is. And indeed this is a very specific type of outbreak. The settlements of the Rhagenratka were primarily along the shore of Lake Erie, the biggest cluster was around Niagara. Since the virus only infected the natives after passing there, these local villages were not affected on the voyage to Wendake.
Then when the outbreak becomes obvious in Wendake, they are deep in enemy territorry, not exactly a place where a single warrior would wander off.
When the army finally gets bogged down from disease around the Tionantati, the disease spreads to them. But, the Tionontati are still not on the best of terms with the Allies, so there is not a high chance they just send people to the south.
For the Army itself, the Wendat bands still are a threat in their minds, so they are quite careful about not wandering off. Then, in this camp, contact of course is very close and therefore the infection speed is very high. So all that will die, die very fast.
What this does, except the gender imbalance, is giving the natives an outline of the concept of a quarantine. In OTL they had the unfortunate habit of Gathering among the sick, which is.. of course suboptimal.
After over two months the remains slowly move south, and everyone of the survivors is no longer infectious when they arrive in the Rhagenratka villages.
Okay, first things first. They are not inherently immune as in they will not contract the disease. Even in the isolated European colonies smallpox regularily killed a lit of people since the colonists had had no previous exposure and therefore aquired immunity. It only reduces the Death Rate from the near annihilation pure natives faced to a devastating plague. The effects of smallpox e.g. will still be much more severe than in Europe.
Let me explain: One of the big issues for native american in that matter is their extremely low genetic diversity. I would refer you to this post and the conversation below to outline the problem and what a a metis population can do to mitigate that and what not. In short, it is not gonna be a wonder cure for the epidemics, but there will be a functional society left. Especially, since this measure drives down mortality from all Old World diseases, not just smallpox.
A bit what i said above. The low genetic diversity will always be an issue if you dont have populations mingling. "Immunity" as such is lost after each generation that got hit by the disease if it does not go endemic. This is not realistic in the Haudenosaunee/Neutrals since their population is too low. Another effect we may however not forget is how the natives were treated OTL. Their mistreatment and bad living conditions came with low birth rates, early deaths and high child mortality. So the still functioning metis population makes it much easier to rebound demographically. Also, given that the metis children will naturally survive in higher numbers than their peers without European influence, their DNA will become more widespread over time. Combined with the introduction of European crops like wheat through the contacts with the French, the Natives in TTL stand a much better chance of recupering from the epidemics. If one assumes, say 3/4 of the growth rate a European colony can reach, than this graph above would look completely different
OTL the Jesuits really fell out of favor among many natives because they believed the "Blackrobes" had brought the diseases, which of course hindered attempts to convert the natives.
The Haudenosaunee went berserk with their Mourning Wars, because to them there was almost no such thing as a natural death (excluding drowing ironically). They would then attack neighboring tribes for revenge and get captives to replace the losses. Of course this would lead to more deaths. And this to more mourning wars....well, safe to say - it was not very effective.
The societal effects are proably even more devastating. But frankly, I have not found a good source on that. I figure it must be incrediblly hard to procure such information from original sources.
TTL the Jesuits will not fall victim to this mistake by the natives. However, there is nothing I can do to change the mourning wars before there is a significant portion of Christian Haudenosaunee. They will exist, they will be bloody and the Mahican, the Susquehannock and the various Algonquian Nations will suffer.
Last edited:
Thank you for the detailed answer. I know about the collapse of the native populations post-european contacts, but still find it as chilling everytime I read about it. Frankly, I don't know how you even manage to write about it, especially putting yourself in native characters' point of view.
Either way! Keep up all this great work, and pardon me for being so curious ahah
Either way! Keep up all this great work, and pardon me for being so curious ahah
No Problem. Always happy to answer questions
It is hard, I think thats the main reason why so many TL writers (including me, frankly) in this time and place are desperate to find a mitigating change and go to quite some lenghts to introduce them.
Let's be honest here, the scenario I'm proposing is possible, yet not reallylikely, especially the means of infection.
Still, stuff like variola minor would require even more hand-waving if the colonizers come from Europe. And everything else requires a really early pre contact POD or is not really realistic because it requires too sweeping changes to culture, knowledge or similar.
Last edited:
Okay, guys. Going over the story I really realized how my pop numbers are off the charts. I corrected that down. Also, actual work has been quite stressful recently, so my progress on the next chapters is much slower than anticipated.
Last edited:
Take your time. Thank you for the correction - it really shows how carefully you did all that! And... good luck with your work!
I reduced the inhabitants of Canada from around 2300 (excluding non-wife natives) to around 1300. Acadia was deceased in a similar manner to under 300. The old numbers were just plain unrealistic. Such an immigration drive in the first years of the colony completely forgets about the fact that many early colonists would reutrn to Europe quite soon and massively overestimates the push factors in France.
The new numbers account for a latent death rate of settlers, increased returners to France and less natural growth in the beginning. Also, the immigration is fixed around 60 (plus native wifes), which historically was the number Dugua had to ferry over each year according to his charter for the OTL 1604 colony, which is the base of TTL Canada.
Last edited:
Chapter XI: Syrup in Paris
Chapter XI – Syrup in Paris
*
“So Dugua, seems like the crown got the good piece, huh?” The new Cardinal [1] could be quite annoying, Dugua thought. But he had to keep his mouth shut, of course. “Your excellency, the syrup is dropping”, he replied instead. “Thanks. You know, Dugua, I never liked these waffle thingies, but your weird syrup makes them rather palatable”. Richelieu was licking his finger like a small child [2].
“Still”, the cardinal continued, “how much profit does your colony turn?” It was obvious. The Crown wanted Dugua’s land for itself. And they had a good shot at it. He had no children and he was old, almost 70 years.
On the other hand, the coming strong man of France had a point. Clearly, his returns had started to diminish. “Indeed, Indeed”, he responded. “While we obviously can’t compete with the returns from the fisheries of Acadia, we still are profitable.”
“Ah yes, the fur. And this syrup. Which is marvelous, I must say.”
“Canada has to offer another strength Acadia can not. How could France expect to hold onto these profitable lands without a stable population? And, pardon me, this is not exactly something Acadia can do".
The Cardinal pondered, but now the old man had a point. Acadia indeed was a peculiar place.
While the salted cod made the colony very profitable, there was little real immigration or reason to penetrate the interior of the land. While the three Acadian settlements [3] all had a functional port, comparatively high military population and strong, sea oriented defenses, its population of less than 300 was exclusively male and many returned to France after their tenure ended. There were almost no real colonists.
And while officially the colony was owned by the crown, in fact it depended on the merchants coming for the cod. In summers they would fish, store the catch in barrels of salt and sail back.
The market for fish in Europa was practically endless. And so the stream of French fishermen in the waters of New France was ever expanding.
The catch would go either directly to France or to Spain and Italy. Their profits were immense and the Crown made sure it took its share. It was imperative to keep things that way.
The populous Canada nearby surely was a decent deterrent for demotivating English or other incursions into Acadia.
Since the competing English fishermen had no reliable source of salt, they had to dry their cod on the shore before transporting it back to Europe. For that, they needed coastal stations. Right now, they only controlled some eastern parts of the island of Terre-Neuve, where they inhabited some semi-permanent camps. This already was a thorn in the French side and a danger to their trade interests. The complete island had to be brought under French control, but how? He was already lacking the men to send to the New World – and the European endeavors took enough of his attention and resources. [4]
And there was another theater in need of support. The West Indian islands. Their plantations made them richer than either Acadia or Canada. And since the Spanish hold on the islands was collapsing, it was time to grab them. He just had authorized an attempt to found a plantation colony on St. Christopher [5]. Among all these ventures in Europe, Acadia and the West Indies Dugua's trade company in Canada was an afterthought.
Still, mainly to protect all of France’s interests in the New World, he had ordered a new fleet, the very first Royal French navy. While some galleys were built for the Mediterranean, the majority of the ships would be galleons for the Atlantic. A first batch of 20 ships already had been ordered from the Dutch.
***
Even missing royal support, Canada did little but expand these days. The Great Lakes were home to ever more French venturing into the unknown.
This was nothing Champlain or the authorities were responsible for anymore. In the beginning they had assisted men moving west, but slowly the drawback became immanent: These men quickly became rather detached from the colony. In general, excluding the outposts of Niagara and Cataraqui, they mingled with the natives and had little to do with the colony.
Only in summers they would bring their furs to one of the French trade posts on the shores of the Great Lakes, where the lake barks would take them up to begin the long journey East.
The furs then went to Niagara, were ported down alongside the Great Falls, then put on smaller barges to Cataraqui.
From there they were taken down the Great River to Montreal, where another group of barks took them to Quebec where they were loaded in the big ships to Europe.
Through many hands each single fur did go. And every single of these hands took its slice of the profits.
On the bright side, with the demise of the Wendat the Northern River was now open. Champlain sent more than one expedition north, exploring and opening new markets for fur.
Every summer, when the Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka would bring their furs to the fair in Montreal, more and more of the Northern Nations would also show up.
The quality of their furs was mesmerizing. The further north, the better seemed the quality. Slowly, this crossroads of the wilds become the center of Canada.
It was not by chance that by 1625 Champlain and his family, including his twin son and daughter born in 1622, spent most of their time there.
The big advantage Canada had over Acadia was the Huguenot immigration. Most of the newly arrived were now Calvinists and steadily they became the majority east of Montreal to farm the Great River Valley. 60 colonists was demanded of Dugua in his charter but in truth the number was closer to 100 or so each year. Meanwhile, the number of returners to France declined each year. The Huguenots generally came with their family, to settle in the Great Valley. And the few arriving Catholics generally went west after staying in Montreal for a while. By now, Champlain estimated his colony to grow by around 80 persons each year, including new born children.
In the West, the Jesuits missionaries became more and more active. Some of them lived in the major Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka towns, slowly founding congregations and slowly introducing the natives to European ideas. Having been through Tekatwitha’s rigorous training, they were at least partially prepared for their task and generally competent enough to avoid major mishaps.
To the South, the Dutch were not really getting of the ground. They had founded a second settlement, Niew Amsterdam, yet it only grew slowly. Additionally, their alliance with the Mahican destroyed any outlook of meaningful participation in the northern fur trade. Even though they started trading firearms to their native allies, their ancestral enemies, the Kanienkehaka were much more experienced with the new weapons and had steadier supply. Constant low-intensity skirmishes between the Mahican and the Kanienkehaka increasingly started to spread in the vicinity of Ft. Orange and naturally the Haudenosaunee warriors were inclined to prevent further armaments of their enemies wherever possible, inciting attacks on isolated Dutch colonists.
*****
*
“So Dugua, seems like the crown got the good piece, huh?” The new Cardinal [1] could be quite annoying, Dugua thought. But he had to keep his mouth shut, of course. “Your excellency, the syrup is dropping”, he replied instead. “Thanks. You know, Dugua, I never liked these waffle thingies, but your weird syrup makes them rather palatable”. Richelieu was licking his finger like a small child [2].
“Still”, the cardinal continued, “how much profit does your colony turn?” It was obvious. The Crown wanted Dugua’s land for itself. And they had a good shot at it. He had no children and he was old, almost 70 years.
On the other hand, the coming strong man of France had a point. Clearly, his returns had started to diminish. “Indeed, Indeed”, he responded. “While we obviously can’t compete with the returns from the fisheries of Acadia, we still are profitable.”
“Ah yes, the fur. And this syrup. Which is marvelous, I must say.”
“Canada has to offer another strength Acadia can not. How could France expect to hold onto these profitable lands without a stable population? And, pardon me, this is not exactly something Acadia can do".
The Cardinal pondered, but now the old man had a point. Acadia indeed was a peculiar place.
While the salted cod made the colony very profitable, there was little real immigration or reason to penetrate the interior of the land. While the three Acadian settlements [3] all had a functional port, comparatively high military population and strong, sea oriented defenses, its population of less than 300 was exclusively male and many returned to France after their tenure ended. There were almost no real colonists.
And while officially the colony was owned by the crown, in fact it depended on the merchants coming for the cod. In summers they would fish, store the catch in barrels of salt and sail back.
The market for fish in Europa was practically endless. And so the stream of French fishermen in the waters of New France was ever expanding.
The catch would go either directly to France or to Spain and Italy. Their profits were immense and the Crown made sure it took its share. It was imperative to keep things that way.
The populous Canada nearby surely was a decent deterrent for demotivating English or other incursions into Acadia.
Since the competing English fishermen had no reliable source of salt, they had to dry their cod on the shore before transporting it back to Europe. For that, they needed coastal stations. Right now, they only controlled some eastern parts of the island of Terre-Neuve, where they inhabited some semi-permanent camps. This already was a thorn in the French side and a danger to their trade interests. The complete island had to be brought under French control, but how? He was already lacking the men to send to the New World – and the European endeavors took enough of his attention and resources. [4]
And there was another theater in need of support. The West Indian islands. Their plantations made them richer than either Acadia or Canada. And since the Spanish hold on the islands was collapsing, it was time to grab them. He just had authorized an attempt to found a plantation colony on St. Christopher [5]. Among all these ventures in Europe, Acadia and the West Indies Dugua's trade company in Canada was an afterthought.
Still, mainly to protect all of France’s interests in the New World, he had ordered a new fleet, the very first Royal French navy. While some galleys were built for the Mediterranean, the majority of the ships would be galleons for the Atlantic. A first batch of 20 ships already had been ordered from the Dutch.
***
Even missing royal support, Canada did little but expand these days. The Great Lakes were home to ever more French venturing into the unknown.
This was nothing Champlain or the authorities were responsible for anymore. In the beginning they had assisted men moving west, but slowly the drawback became immanent: These men quickly became rather detached from the colony. In general, excluding the outposts of Niagara and Cataraqui, they mingled with the natives and had little to do with the colony.
Only in summers they would bring their furs to one of the French trade posts on the shores of the Great Lakes, where the lake barks would take them up to begin the long journey East.
The furs then went to Niagara, were ported down alongside the Great Falls, then put on smaller barges to Cataraqui.
From there they were taken down the Great River to Montreal, where another group of barks took them to Quebec where they were loaded in the big ships to Europe.
Through many hands each single fur did go. And every single of these hands took its slice of the profits.
On the bright side, with the demise of the Wendat the Northern River was now open. Champlain sent more than one expedition north, exploring and opening new markets for fur.
Every summer, when the Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka would bring their furs to the fair in Montreal, more and more of the Northern Nations would also show up.
The quality of their furs was mesmerizing. The further north, the better seemed the quality. Slowly, this crossroads of the wilds become the center of Canada.
It was not by chance that by 1625 Champlain and his family, including his twin son and daughter born in 1622, spent most of their time there.
The big advantage Canada had over Acadia was the Huguenot immigration. Most of the newly arrived were now Calvinists and steadily they became the majority east of Montreal to farm the Great River Valley. 60 colonists was demanded of Dugua in his charter but in truth the number was closer to 100 or so each year. Meanwhile, the number of returners to France declined each year. The Huguenots generally came with their family, to settle in the Great Valley. And the few arriving Catholics generally went west after staying in Montreal for a while. By now, Champlain estimated his colony to grow by around 80 persons each year, including new born children.
In the West, the Jesuits missionaries became more and more active. Some of them lived in the major Haudenosaunee and Rhagenratka towns, slowly founding congregations and slowly introducing the natives to European ideas. Having been through Tekatwitha’s rigorous training, they were at least partially prepared for their task and generally competent enough to avoid major mishaps.
To the South, the Dutch were not really getting of the ground. They had founded a second settlement, Niew Amsterdam, yet it only grew slowly. Additionally, their alliance with the Mahican destroyed any outlook of meaningful participation in the northern fur trade. Even though they started trading firearms to their native allies, their ancestral enemies, the Kanienkehaka were much more experienced with the new weapons and had steadier supply. Constant low-intensity skirmishes between the Mahican and the Kanienkehaka increasingly started to spread in the vicinity of Ft. Orange and naturally the Haudenosaunee warriors were inclined to prevent further armaments of their enemies wherever possible, inciting attacks on isolated Dutch colonists.
*****
[1] We are in 1625. Richelieu became Chief Minister one year earlier.
[2] Sorry, I could not resist
[3] St. Louis (Around the Merrimack River estuary, north of OTL Boston), Pentagouet and Port-Royal (as OTL)
[4] Due to increased French presence, the continuous raiding around Newfoundland is more favorable towards the French. OTL, the English fishermen had considerable control over eastern Newfoundland. TTL, they are concentrated around (OTL) St. Johns. Also, Richelieu in is more favorable towards colonial expansion than OTL. The Calvinists will not be forbidden from settling in Canada TTL.
[5] St. Kitts, as OTL. As OTl, the colony will fail.
1625: More and More French Fishermen start exploiting the Cod of Newfoundland and Acadia. Because of the increased revenue slowly their merchant fleet starts to develop. This will result in major butterflies down the road. Richelieu, and with him French government, becomes more interested in Colonial ventures. The navy he commisions is bigger than OTL and more strongly geared towards the Atlantic.
Meanwhile, Canada expands west. These catholic westerners become detached from the colonial administration and mingle with the natives. This ensures a coming Metis population with both French and Native heritage. Also, the conversion efforts of the Jesuits (and Recollects, French Franciscans basically) are more successful since they are being prepared before setting off. Montreal becomes at least equal in importance to Quebec.
The Dutch become diplomatically isolated because of their Mahican alliance and their colony is not really profitable.
What the butterfly? France is becoming more colonially interested in New England and Newfoundland than OTL, their involvement in Newfoundland is stronger than OTL. Still, this will not abruptly change their military involvements in Europe in the short term (Anglo-French war 1627-1629; 30 years war, Franco-Spanish war). However, starting with a different English civil war on the horizon, including an (extremely) different outcome, things will start to change.
Meanwhile, Canada expands west. These catholic westerners become detached from the colonial administration and mingle with the natives. This ensures a coming Metis population with both French and Native heritage. Also, the conversion efforts of the Jesuits (and Recollects, French Franciscans basically) are more successful since they are being prepared before setting off. Montreal becomes at least equal in importance to Quebec.
The Dutch become diplomatically isolated because of their Mahican alliance and their colony is not really profitable.
What the butterfly? France is becoming more colonially interested in New England and Newfoundland than OTL, their involvement in Newfoundland is stronger than OTL. Still, this will not abruptly change their military involvements in Europe in the short term (Anglo-French war 1627-1629; 30 years war, Franco-Spanish war). However, starting with a different English civil war on the horizon, including an (extremely) different outcome, things will start to change.
Last edited: