My favourite Vinick quote came during the debate with Santos when asked how many jobs he would create as President, he replied none. Asked why he said "Goverment's don't create jobs, people and Business do". Just a brilliant answer.
The West Wing Presidential Election (Timeline)
- Thread starter Roedecker
- Start date
Also don't forget in the West World, Tony Blair isn't Prime Minsiter of the UK.
Maureen Graty is the Prime Miinster.
She makes her appearance, though we only see her on television, during episode 14 of series 6, "The Wake Up Call". During the episode the Iranian Air Force shoot down a British passenger aeroplane, and the Bartlet White House try their best to prevent the Graty government from using the act as a pretext to possibly unjustified military action against suspected Iranian nuclear facilities.
We are told that PM Graty is prone to overreaction, quoting Churchill, and is battling factions within her own party, the implication being that she is in the mould of Margaret Thatcher. We are also told that her Government is unstable suggesting she may have only a small majority in the House of Commons.
She must have become Prime Minister sometime between November 2003 and October 2005 (when we hear her), as the British Prime Minister mentioned in the episode "Shutdown" is male. (It is said "the British Prime Minister and his wife are coming to dinner"). Her husband's name is Reggie. She is also heard speaking to President Bartlet on the speaker phone after American Peacekeeping forces have been killed in the middle east in the episode the "Dover Test" which takes place around October 2005.On November 8th 2006 Prime Minister Graty phoned President-elect Matthew Santos to congratulate him on his election victory.
It does beg the question where the POD is in British history to allow for Graty to be Prime Minister.
Anyone wish to put forward an idea?
Maureen Graty is the Prime Miinster.
She makes her appearance, though we only see her on television, during episode 14 of series 6, "The Wake Up Call". During the episode the Iranian Air Force shoot down a British passenger aeroplane, and the Bartlet White House try their best to prevent the Graty government from using the act as a pretext to possibly unjustified military action against suspected Iranian nuclear facilities.
We are told that PM Graty is prone to overreaction, quoting Churchill, and is battling factions within her own party, the implication being that she is in the mould of Margaret Thatcher. We are also told that her Government is unstable suggesting she may have only a small majority in the House of Commons.
She must have become Prime Minister sometime between November 2003 and October 2005 (when we hear her), as the British Prime Minister mentioned in the episode "Shutdown" is male. (It is said "the British Prime Minister and his wife are coming to dinner"). Her husband's name is Reggie. She is also heard speaking to President Bartlet on the speaker phone after American Peacekeeping forces have been killed in the middle east in the episode the "Dover Test" which takes place around October 2005.On November 8th 2006 Prime Minister Graty phoned President-elect Matthew Santos to congratulate him on his election victory.
It does beg the question where the POD is in British history to allow for Graty to be Prime Minister.
Anyone wish to put forward an idea?
I liked John Spencer and thought he seemed like a good guy, so I mean no offense to him by this, but:
That was a poor reason to change it IMO. I don't see why his death would "force" the writers to change the final outcome of the show (of course some things would have to be changed, but a Vinick win would not need to be changed IMO). I dsagree with the change.
Valamyr
Banned
I liked the Santos win. Why?
For the whole series, the plot revolved largely, politics-wise, around a democratic administration struggling and often failing to push their ideas and their agenda forward, because of an hostile Congress.
They were frustrated at every turn, or almost. Every other episode, the watchers would guess "Man, imagine what these guys would pull off if they had a majority!"
Well, the Santos win came along with partial elections in Congress which gave the democrats there a majority for the first time in the series.
For me, this delivered a feeling of completion, as it the whole show revolved at times around the premise that if that came to be, a skilled democrat president could truly create meaningful change. Its nice to imagine the Santos term like that, and brings a sense of final victory that is well deserved.
For the whole series, the plot revolved largely, politics-wise, around a democratic administration struggling and often failing to push their ideas and their agenda forward, because of an hostile Congress.
They were frustrated at every turn, or almost. Every other episode, the watchers would guess "Man, imagine what these guys would pull off if they had a majority!"
Well, the Santos win came along with partial elections in Congress which gave the democrats there a majority for the first time in the series.
For me, this delivered a feeling of completion, as it the whole show revolved at times around the premise that if that came to be, a skilled democrat president could truly create meaningful change. Its nice to imagine the Santos term like that, and brings a sense of final victory that is well deserved.
Or, conversely, Santos is Van Burened by Bartlett's decision to get involved in Kazakhstan, leading to Roy Sullivan being inaugurated in 2011...
No clue. Remember the whole POD for the West Wing universe centres around the 1970s at some point—probably with Nixon/Watergate and either a different interpretation of the 25th (that allows Speaker Albert to call a special election) or the 25th coming into existence post-'74 special election.
(as always you have to disregard some of their references to OTL events as coincidental or characters making mistakes
So you have 30 years of British politics to play around with to get Graty as PM.
From her personality I imagine that Graty is a Conservative PM.
Maybe:
1970-1974 Ted Heath (Con)
1974-1976 Harold Wilson (Lab)
Resigned 1976
1976-1979 Jim Callaghan (Lab)
Lost 1979 election after "Winter of Discontent"
1979-1984 Margaret Thatcher (Con)
Defeated in Gebneral Election following a fairly poor Falklands War with less success as a result of less US support, and numerous social upheavals during 1983-4 culminating in the 1984 General Strike.
1984-1989 Denis Healey (Lab)
The election of Healey as Labour leader in 1980, defeating Michael Foot, sees Labour remain united, no SDP split, and less left-wing.
1989-1999 Michael Hestletine (Con)
Narrow Conservative victory, followed by larger victory in 1994 General Election; Roy Jenkins is elected Labour leader in 1990, but after defeat in the 1994 General Election is replaced by John Smith. Smith dies of a heart attack in 1997, and is replaced by the youthful, albeit dour Gordon Brown.
1999-2004 Gordon Brown (Lab)
Small Labour victory; Labour more left leaning than in OTL. Hestletine resigns as Conservative leader and is replaced by right-winger, Maureen Graty.
2004- Maureen Graty (Con)
Large Conservative victory following failed Labour reforms. Brown resigns as Labour leader and is replaced by John Hutton.
Maybe:
1970-1974 Ted Heath (Con)
1974-1976 Harold Wilson (Lab)
Resigned 1976
1976-1979 Jim Callaghan (Lab)
Lost 1979 election after "Winter of Discontent"
1979-1984 Margaret Thatcher (Con)
Defeated in Gebneral Election following a fairly poor Falklands War with less success as a result of less US support, and numerous social upheavals during 1983-4 culminating in the 1984 General Strike.
1984-1989 Denis Healey (Lab)
The election of Healey as Labour leader in 1980, defeating Michael Foot, sees Labour remain united, no SDP split, and less left-wing.
1989-1999 Michael Hestletine (Con)
Narrow Conservative victory, followed by larger victory in 1994 General Election; Roy Jenkins is elected Labour leader in 1990, but after defeat in the 1994 General Election is replaced by John Smith. Smith dies of a heart attack in 1997, and is replaced by the youthful, albeit dour Gordon Brown.
1999-2004 Gordon Brown (Lab)
Small Labour victory; Labour more left leaning than in OTL. Hestletine resigns as Conservative leader and is replaced by right-winger, Maureen Graty.
2004- Maureen Graty (Con)
Large Conservative victory following failed Labour reforms. Brown resigns as Labour leader and is replaced by John Hutton.
Good work Will. The show ignored who the British Prime Minster until season six anyway. I think like the US there where two President's who where fictional who served before 1999, so I think Britian would have at least two Prime Ministers prior to Graty who are fictional the same way.
Also in 1999, the Great Lord John Marbury calls the Prime Minsiter by his nickname of "Ricky".
Also in 1999, the Great Lord John Marbury calls the Prime Minsiter by his nickname of "Ricky".
1999-2004 Richard Caborn (Lab)
Small Labour victory; Labour more left leaning than in OTL. Hestletine resigns as Conservative leader and is replaced by right-winger, Maureen Graty. Caborn rose through the Labour ranks as a trades unionist in 1970s Yorkshire. In the early 1980s he was a Euro MP
In 1994, following the resignation of Roy Jenkins, Caborn masterminded John Smith's leadership campaign, and became the Leader of the Opposition's closest ally following his election. Following the death of Smith in 1997, Caborn beat Gordon Brown to the Labour leadership. A keen sports fan, Caborns narrow election victory in 1999 is often attributed to the way he associated himself with the England soccer team that won the 1998 World Cup in France. Known to many prior to 1998 as Dicky, his prime ministerial nickname stems from a meeting with David Beckham after the World Cup, where the footballer mistakenly referred to him on TV as "Ricky", a name used since by Tory politicians in jest.
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Superb, Will now, me and you should write "Number Ten"!!!!
I like the idea of England winning the World Cup in 1998, beat Argentina (POD Beckham not set off ), beat The Neatherlands in the Quarter Final, Brazil in the semi-final, and France in the Final.
Also Prime-Minister Carbon and President Lassister help forge the Good Friday Peace Accord in 1998.
Graty Wins the 2004 General Election by just eight seats, and not lilked by the left of the Party.
I thought of the Caborn administration as being left-leaning with heavy lobbying from Trade Unionists (In TTL Unions are stronger thanks to the Thatcher regime being a footnote in history, and the Hestletine administration being more left-leaning than Thatcherism). Caborn struggled with the Unions who expected an easy ride after 10 years of Tory rule, and as such the urn-of-the-century is marked by strikes in Britains coal, rail and manufacturing industries. Caborn loses the support of his northern heartlands, and Labour becomes increasingly split between traditionalists and modernisers.
Without the SDP split Labour is in need of reform. By the time of the 2004 General election Labour has lost much of it's traditional support to a resurgent Liberal Party, spliting the working class vote, and ensring a substantial majority for Graty.
Following Caborns resignation after his defeat, the Labour party faced the difficult issues of reform, and a group of centre-right politicians headed by John Hutton, Alan Milburn, Tony Blair and Peter Mandleson, became known as the "Group of Four" that started that process.
West Wing..
Back to the "West Wing" for a second. The point of the ending was NOT whether the Republicans or the Democrats should have won but that Josh Lineman, the Rob Lowe character and the woman who was involved with Josh, who had all been "deputies" in the Bartlet presidency, were now in the positions of authority.
The ending was essentially one of renewal, of the baton passing to the next generation.
"The West Wing - The Next Generation" - I see it now.
Perhaps Patrick Stewart could play the Cajun vice-president, Jean-Luc Picard.
Back to the "West Wing" for a second. The point of the ending was NOT whether the Republicans or the Democrats should have won but that Josh Lineman, the Rob Lowe character and the woman who was involved with Josh, who had all been "deputies" in the Bartlet presidency, were now in the positions of authority.
The ending was essentially one of renewal, of the baton passing to the next generation.
"The West Wing - The Next Generation" - I see it now.
Perhaps Patrick Stewart could play the Cajun vice-president, Jean-Luc Picard.
Back to the "West Wing" for a second. The point of the ending was NOT whether the Republicans or the Democrats should have won but that Josh Lineman, the Rob Lowe character and the woman who was involved with Josh, who had all been "deputies" in the Bartlet presidency, were now in the positions of authority.
The ending was essentially one of renewal, of the baton passing to the next generation.
"The West Wing - The Next Generation" - I see it now.
Perhaps Patrick Stewart could play the Cajun vice-president, Jean-Luc Picard.
Very funny. Why not the senior Senator from Lousiana?
I don't think that Lassiter was meant to be the president that came before Bartlet. I think the mention of Reagan's name was a mistake, and Owen Lassiter was meant to be a Reagan analogue - this is evidenced by how they talk about him, as if his presidency was a while ago, and how his former staff are referred to as "geriatrics". I think that after Ford served one term it was clear he wouldn't win another, so Lassiter (comparable to Reagan) got the nomination and served two terms; he was then followed by Newman (who would be more comparable to a victorious Mondale or Dukakis) who served one term before losing to Bartlet's predecessor (comparable to Bush snr.) who served two terms. So:
1975 - 1979: Gerald Ford
1979 - 1987: Owen Lassiter
1987 - 1991: D Wire Newman
1991 - 1999: nameless Republican who couldn't make it to the funeral
1999 - 2007: Jed Bartlet
2007 - 201?: Matt Santos
1975 - 1979: Gerald Ford
1979 - 1987: Owen Lassiter
1987 - 1991: D Wire Newman
1991 - 1999: nameless Republican who couldn't make it to the funeral
1999 - 2007: Jed Bartlet
2007 - 201?: Matt Santos
1984-1989 Denis Healey (Lab)
The election of Healey as Labour leader in 1980, defeating Michael Foot, sees Labour remain united, no SDP split, and less left-wing.
Denis who?
Everyone knows that Jim Hacker was was the British PM after Thatcher.
http://www.yes-minister.com/introduc.htm
The election of Healey as Labour leader in 1980, defeating Michael Foot, sees Labour remain united, no SDP split, and less left-wing.
Denis who?
Everyone knows that Jim Hacker was was the British PM after Thatcher.
http://www.yes-minister.com/introduc.htm
Ah, but Sellner (a DINO) ended up as Speaker of the House, so it's unlikely ALL of Santos's agenda would get through.
Wikipedia has just posted the Popular vote for the 2006 Election. Although they are not actually given on the shown, it seems on a DVD Comentery For Season 7, John Wells says the Populer Vote numbers and how they forgot to add them as captions on the show as they done for the 2002 election.
The UK Series 7 DVD does not have the comenteries on the DVD so I have not heard this myself.
The totals are:
Santos & McGarry 68,746,542
Vinick & Sullivan 68,754,328
Vinick wins the popular vote by just 7,786 votes making it the closest Presidential election in history in terms of the popular vote.
The UK Series 7 DVD does not have the comenteries on the DVD so I have not heard this myself.
The totals are:
Santos & McGarry 68,746,542
Vinick & Sullivan 68,754,328
Vinick wins the popular vote by just 7,786 votes making it the closest Presidential election in history in terms of the popular vote.
The 1998 Presidential election is the election in which Governor of New Hampshire Josiah Bartlet and Texas Senator John Hoynes who the Presidency with 303-235 margin in the elec college, with 48 million votes and 48% of the popular vote. It was never made clear who their Republican opponents where, but their was a throwaway line in the series seven epsiode "The Wedding" which mentions the name Eisenhower as the opponent eight years before.
We know that Bartlet won both Florida and Gerogia, but lost in Texas., although in series 1 set less than a year since the election, Hoynes says that he delivered the south in the election. He also lost in Maine which was confirmed during the 2002 election. He did win in Oregon by 10,000 votes, but seems likely that he lost in Colorado (claimed during series 7 that Bartlet was never popular or liked in that state), and in New Mexico (he only won in 2002 during his landlside win by just 6,000 votes.
He of course carried New Hampshire his home state.
The 1998 election would use our worlds elec vote totals from 1992,1996,2000.
Anyway would like to guess who the rest of the map looked.
We know that Bartlet won both Florida and Gerogia, but lost in Texas., although in series 1 set less than a year since the election, Hoynes says that he delivered the south in the election. He also lost in Maine which was confirmed during the 2002 election. He did win in Oregon by 10,000 votes, but seems likely that he lost in Colorado (claimed during series 7 that Bartlet was never popular or liked in that state), and in New Mexico (he only won in 2002 during his landlside win by just 6,000 votes.
He of course carried New Hampshire his home state.
The 1998 election would use our worlds elec vote totals from 1992,1996,2000.
Anyway would like to guess who the rest of the map looked.