How about no beer hall putsch or it goes ahead without Hitler (sick/injury?) with Hitler claiming the tesponsibility at the trial? So no jail time or bann of speaking and earlier nazi organization. Come 1929 crash they swoop into the elections in 1930. So roughly similar set-up although Britain may abandon 10 year rule later relative to Germany as it was abandon due to Japan iotl
The War That Came Even Earlier: WWII in 1936/37?!
- Thread starter Volsky
- Start date
Hmm, how about, while the peace treaty is more lenient TTL, the reparations are harsher and the moment Germany fails to pay them, the Entente starts occupying their lands, Saarland, Silesia, Danzig etc. to make sure they receive an equivalent payment, increasing the humiliation and resentment in the German population + a somewhat worse Depression that would stir a feeling of revenge.
Was there any wiggle room to move up the Anschluss by a year; perhaps around the spring or summer of 1937? With confirmation that threats from Britain and France were a non-factor, it would give the Moustache Man all the confirmation he needed to openly support any move on Gibraltar.
I settled on 2 September 1937 as a fantastic date for an attack on Gibraltar by Sanjurju because it's the first flight of the XF4F-2 and I am a frothing, unabashed Grumman fanboy.
I settled on 2 September 1937 as a fantastic date for an attack on Gibraltar by Sanjurju because it's the first flight of the XF4F-2 and I am a frothing, unabashed Grumman fanboy.
The NSDAP got popular in 1932 and won in 1933, the putsch was completely forgotten by everyone.
Nazi Party election results - Wikipedia
The idea of invading Gib without Britain being at war with a major power is pure fantasy. Britain embargoes Spain. France and Portugal tut-tut and follow. Some months later Spain overthrows the overntnment as everyone is starving, and the RN has reduced every target within 15miles of the coast to rubble.
One possibility is that Hitler fails in Austria (maybe going earlier) and, enraged, goes into Czechoslovakia
Earlier war relies on taking off the brakes. Bear in mind that Hitler wanted it a year later (after a Polish capitulation). Chamberlain wanted much later (with no capitulations). Escalation of threat speeds the wings of war. Invading countries, armed forces build-up to unsustainable peacetime levels. If Britain had geared up rearmament sooner, been more confrontational about Czechoslovakia, you might see war in 1938.
A 1936-1937 start requires war with Italy and/or Spain over their military action. The Spanish Civil War being a proxy war with no casus belli. Foreign aid escalates into alliances. Britain was in a strong position to blockade Spain, and France could sweep over the Alps to fight Fascism. They didn't want to as it would have escalated into a massive European War. Something that signalled to Hitler that he could take liberties outside major alliances. Perhaps playing up that signal and the inevitability of conflict might convince the war weary to nip in the bud and fight a ground of their choosing. Allies gain an ally in Republican Spain if they keep the extremists in check.
A 1936-1937 start requires war with Italy and/or Spain over their military action. The Spanish Civil War being a proxy war with no casus belli. Foreign aid escalates into alliances. Britain was in a strong position to blockade Spain, and France could sweep over the Alps to fight Fascism. They didn't want to as it would have escalated into a massive European War. Something that signalled to Hitler that he could take liberties outside major alliances. Perhaps playing up that signal and the inevitability of conflict might convince the war weary to nip in the bud and fight a ground of their choosing. Allies gain an ally in Republican Spain if they keep the extremists in check.
Last edited:
Republican Spain would also be destroyed by the war and wouldn't be very useful as an ally.
One wildly improbable scenario might be the USA versus Japan and the British Empire. With maybe a Fascist France allied to the US and Italy with the British. Germany? Neutral perhaps?
why not? Portugal is allied to Britain, and they dont exactly love the Spanish. Not joining the embargo might get you added to it
Because Salazar had supported Franco in the Spanish Civil War, Portugal would probably stay neutral (and make some profit if it could). Also what would you embargo? In my knowledge there wasn't much Portugal sold to Spain.
Japan had already divorced the Brits, far back in the 1920s. By this OP dates Japan was more dependent on US banks and general business than on its traditional ties to Britain. To retain Japan as a British client state you have to reach back to pre 1920s and reduce political and economic tensions, like Japans Twenty One Demands on China, As the Great War ran out many Japanese leaders felt they needed to end their client state relationship with Britain and take a independent course. Which they made a effective effort to do so post 1918 or earlier.
For Portuguse exports like Tungsten Ore, or agricultural products like Cork, Leathers, Olive Oil it was mostly transit fees on Spanish railroads enroute to the rest of Europe. And, the volume was not large. Some Spanish railways see their volume drop a few percentage point, but probably not to any crippling degree.
Fair points but AIUI the ending of the Anglo-Japanese Treaty was due to US demands at the Washington Naval Conference. So it’s not impossible that a different end to WW1 might see the alliance continued. With the US a locking trade with Japan but Britain and its Empire still open to it.
I don't think Salazar would embargo Spain and the Brits probably wouldn't embargo Portugal because it just wouldn't be worth it.