Are things that bad already? In Europe we almost never see police with rifles. (nor criminals with body armor either)
What do they use as patrol rifles?
The top 10 Worst Handguns of the 20th century
- Thread starter wtw
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Are things that bad already? In Europe we almost never see police with rifles. (nor criminals with body armor either)
What do they use as patrol rifles?
It varies from country to country. I believe the UK's firearms equiped officers have either MP5s or G36Cs. I think it is pretty much the same for French and German police too. Anyway, its not like things have gotten any worse in the US. Police have carried shotguns for quite some time, and some rural officers carried lever action rifles throughout the 1960s and 1970s. Also, there was something of a shift in the way that police deal with active shooter situations following Columbine. Rather than wait for SWAT officers to arrive (and prolong the killing), responding officers are trained to advance on and eliminate the shooter as quickly as possible. Due to this shift in doctrine, beat officers are generally equipped with more SWAT type equipment. In any situation where you would need a long gun, a rifle is simply better than a shotgun.
How could I have forgotten? I would kind of hesitate to include the Gyrojet, though. It is more of a novelty than a real firearm. Although there were reports of them being carried in Vietnam, I don't think they were ever fired in anger.
The M1911 is not the best designed handgun of the whole 20th century. It had alot of superfluous features that John Browning himself deleted on his later designs.
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The jump from MP5 to G36 is a big one. the MP5, apart from the wonderful 510 (10mmAuto) fires 9mmP, wich will mean a contained use in terms of range/penetration. The 5,56 in the G36 will go through a lot of stuff, making civilian casualties more problematic.
Here in Portugal the National Republican Guard ( A Gendermarie style force) are issued with G3 rifles in 7,62NATO, wich is a bit of a overkill, but the police mostly use SMG and Shotguns when something more than a pistol is required.
5.56 actually has less of a risk of overpenetration than a 9mm, due to the rapid fragmentation of the round in the target.
Not with SS109 ammo. It will go through an helmet, a car door, a cheap wall...
And there is no such thing as "spent" SS109 in city ranges. Miss a guy at one end of a long street ans it will still kill somebody at the other end. 9mm looses speed a lot closer to you...
SS109 is not typically used by LEOs. Most police departments issue either hollow point or OTM ammo in patrol rifles. Any stray round is still deadly. A .22LR is potentially lethal at 600+ yards.
I think the reason that no body disagrees with you inculsion of the Glock is that it is largely true. The number of makers that make Glock clones is massive. Between the 1911 and Glock that right there is 90% of the semiauto handgun market in anything 9mm Luger or larger. Both designs have killed developement. Although one has to wonder with the current technology if there could be more real advancement in this area.
I recall several articles about the Gyrojet pistol's Vietnam experience in various gun magazines back then. Apparently the manufacturer aimed its marketing at the parents of officers serving over there, claiming the pistol was better than the 1911's they were normally issued. Almost invariably, the Gyrojets fell victim to the harsh wet environment within days and turned into useless lumps of metal. The rounds also had an unacceptably high failure rate, and the electronics couldn't withstand combat conditions. The weapons were universally panned by every combat reviewer I saw. One article IIRC did mention use in a firefight and pointed out that the rocket rounds were very effective in pinpointing the location of the shooter.
BlairWitch749
Banned
10. colt double action new service revolver in .38 long... the cylinder was awkward and unreliable as fuck and it was underpowered; also why use a double action revolver if you aren't going to teach your troops to use a double action shooting stance
9. desert eagle... high in hollywood coolness low in functionality
8. lugar see 9 plus very poor and inconsistant construction in replacement parts
7. soviet block 9mm makarov pistols... ugly, ugly ugly cheap pieces of shit
6. soviet tt-33 pistols see post 7 but more ugly; it's curves are just all fucking wrong
5. colt all american 2000; colt's pathetic attempt to retake market share in law enforcement back from glock; not only was it a flop, it looks hideous
4. japanese nambu pistols, not even good for clubbing
3. beretta m1934; hideous, underpowered just a general cheap piece of shit
2. the smith and wesson chief specials (especially in .45 acp) it looks like a turd only slightly shaped like a gun
1. steyr m... no weapon of war should look like a fischer price toy
9. desert eagle... high in hollywood coolness low in functionality
8. lugar see 9 plus very poor and inconsistant construction in replacement parts
7. soviet block 9mm makarov pistols... ugly, ugly ugly cheap pieces of shit
6. soviet tt-33 pistols see post 7 but more ugly; it's curves are just all fucking wrong
5. colt all american 2000; colt's pathetic attempt to retake market share in law enforcement back from glock; not only was it a flop, it looks hideous
4. japanese nambu pistols, not even good for clubbing
3. beretta m1934; hideous, underpowered just a general cheap piece of shit
2. the smith and wesson chief specials (especially in .45 acp) it looks like a turd only slightly shaped like a gun
1. steyr m... no weapon of war should look like a fischer price toy
DON'T YOU DARE INCLUDE THE MAKAROV!!!!!!!!
That thing is a cheap, accurate, and reliable little brick shithouse of a gun. Supposedly have very nice sights and a nice trigger for a service handgun. The 9x18, although less powerful than the 9x19, is still nothing to laugh at.
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The Nagant revolver could have been included on the list. Complicated design firing a relatively anemic cartridge. Was also a slow weapon to reload weapon compared to other revolvers.
Most stuff made from Darra Adam Khel. Those "Khyber Pass Copies" handguns would easily make the top 10.
I would hesitate to include Khyber Pass guns on the list. Although some of them are copies of existing designs, a number are homebrew designs. Although they are still firearms (and still awful), they are not true production firearms. It would be like adding zipguns to the list.
I did include American "Ring of Fire" pistols on the list, but these were productions weapons that were all roughly the design and produced under factory conditions.
I hope what I posted makes sense.
Meh, 5 years is sort of splitting hairs.
Furthermore, I'm willing to dispute your inclusion of the Steyr M on your list of the worst firearms ever. Yeah, it's a fugly little Glock clone, but it seems to be a functional handgun. Damn Glock for stifling handgun development!!!
1. The Webley-Fosbery semi-automatic Revolver.
An answer to a question that was never asked.....
That a revolver would be better if it was recoil operated
There's an Italian auto-revolver from the 80s too. A solution looking for a problem.