The State of Jewtah (filler name)

[Dominic Harvey]

What if the messianic Jews made an exodus to the American frontier like the mormons did? This is what my timeline is going to be. This is just a placeholder for when I completely iron out the details. Bonus points if you can help me figure out a better state name than Jewtah.

So stay tuned

 

[Deleted member 109224]

What if the messianic Jews made an exodus to the American frontier like the mormons did? This is what my timeline is going to be. This is just a placeholder for when I completely iron out the details. Bonus points if you can help me figure out a better state name than Jewtah.

So stay tuned

Altneuland?

 

[Dominic Harvey]

I just thought of one, Judah. I think that would work the best

 

[Unknown]

Or Neveah; that's heaven spelled backwards (my old neighbor's daughter is named Neveah)...

 

[DanMcCollum]

Hmmmm. Something that would help this out, I think, would be an earlier immigration from Eastern Europe. The Jewish population there had a higher percentage of farmers to their Western brethren, i believe, and would be very useful in any settlement. But they didn't start arriving in large numbers til the latter 18th century (around the same time you saw a surge in Eastern European immigrimmig in general).

Perhaps a few rich benefactors, following one of the Russian pogroms, set up an immigration society to help resettle some parts pf the Jewish population in an underpopulated part of Mexico?

The migrants set up their own Republic of Judah, since there is so little local control on the ground?

OR!!! If it happens early enough, maybe Mexico invites them in to settle Texas to set up a buffer with the United States?

 

[Mort the Reaper]

But they didn't start arriving in large numbers til the latter 18th century (around the same time you saw a surge in Eastern European immigrimmig in general).

I think you might've meant the 19th Century.

 

[DanMcCollum]

I think you might've meant the 19th Century.

I did! Thanks

Now, i did a bit more research, and Mexico didn't have complete religious freedom til 1865 under Maximilian. Jewish Mexicans weren't persecuted prior to that (the Inquisition ended at Independence) but they weren't allowed full citizenship either.

So, if my Texas idea was to come to fruition, you're going to need a Liberal government to come to power - at least initially. Possibly the conservatives regain power and try to strip the settlers of their citizenship, causing a rebeionand the establishment of the Republic of Judah

 

[Dominic Harvey]

What I was thinking is that they would settle in Nevada because the entire premise is that they copy the mormons. So I may have to have 2 PODs one regarding European immigration and one regarding actual settlement.

 

[Dominic Harvey]

1835- Virginia born Jewish American named Solomon Sheftall who had a vision with an angel where he met the son of God and he wrote of his instructions and his encounter in a book known as the "Messianic Codex." This called for Jews to keep their traditions but to accept salvation through Jesus, or as they call him Yeshua.

1840- Solomon gains a sizable minority of the Jewish population of the east coast who were quick to use their economic connections to spread his teachings far and wide. However several conservative rabbis would call him a false prophet and a great evil, while to the average American they were still different so tensions were high.

1843- The mormon Exodus begins the same way in OTL after mass persecution.

1850- The Messians, as they were now called had to make a decision. Solomon was suffering due to old age and tensions reached a boiling point. They had fled from Richmond, to New York, to New Orleans then a mob came and killed Solomon, to this day it is unknown if the motive was strictly religious or if it was a paid assassination. This was the boiling point and a new leader, one with the fire of youth took the helm. He had learned of the great undertaking that the mormons had done to protect their livelihood and they would follow suit. The journey west has begun.

Part 1.
Thoughts?

 

[Unknown]

Here's a link to a post by @Minchandre that deals with a Jewish-majority state in the US (in Wyoming, of all places; I'd like to see that TL): https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-a-jewish-us-state.323685/page-2#post-9498432

 

[Dominic Harvey]

That's pretty cool, what I'm thinking is to create a separate culture than traditional Judaism, (I know that Jewish culture is very diverse and can depend on the area due to Jewish history.) so expect Jewish cowboys.

I'm also trying to find a spot for them to settle because I plan on them moving to Nevada.

I'm either going to have them settle between the Quinn and Humboldt rivers or on the pyramid lake, at first anyway

 

[Minchandre]

1835- Virginia born Jewish American named Solomon Sheftall who had a vision with an angel where he met the son of God and he wrote of his instructions and hiencounter in a book known as the "Messianic Codex." This called for Jews to keep their traditions but to accept salvation through Jesus, or as they call him Yeshua.

Modern "Messianic Jews" are mostly descended from groups started by "back to the Bible" Christians, not Jews accepting Jesus.

1840- Solomon gains a sizable minority of the Jewish population of the east coast who were quick to use their economic connections to spread his teachings far and wide. However several conservative rabbis would call him a false prophet and a great evil, while to the average American they were still different so tensions were high.

Way, way unlikely. The Jewish population in the 1830s is quite small and fairly conservative. It's almost impossible that they'd accept a Messiah like this. There's almost more of a chance recruiting directly from Eastern European Jews, mixing a message of the Land of Promise with a messiah founding a New Jerusalem, but still...unlikely.

Here's a link to a post by @Minchandre that deals with a Jewish-majority state in the US (in Wyoming, of all places; I'd like to see that TL): https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-a-jewish-us-state.323685/page-2#post-9498432

Regular Jews, though, not Messianic .

One day I'll write that TL...I actually have fairly extensive notes.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Modern "Messianic Jews" are mostly descended from groups started by "back to the Bible" Christians, not Jews accepting Jesus.

I did not know that!!! Chalk up yet another area of history which I am woefully under studied in.

 

[Dominic Harvey]

Modern "Messianic Jews" are mostly descended from groups started by "back to the Bible" Christians, not Jews accepting Jesus.

Yeah, but it was the best name I could think of so I took some liberty and I figured since the movement started mainly in the 60s if it was used for an earlier point it would be fair game.

Way, way unlikely. The Jewish population in the 1830s is quite small and fairly conservative. It's almost impossible that they'd accept a Messiah like this. There's almost more of a chance recruiting directly from Eastern European Jews, mixing a message of the Land of Promise with a messiah founding a New Jerusalem, but still...unlikely.

This man is a really good speaker and he has God on his side (For some reason I can't do an emoji so imagine a winky face)

 

[Roger II]

Just have them be like (insert wacky thing that was actually a going concern; someone tries to revive Sabbateanism) or Hasidim or something if the Hasid-Misganed fight gets worse.

 

[Dominic Harvey]

Just have them be like (insert wacky thing that was actually a going concern; someone tries to revive Sabbateanism) or Hasidim or something if the Hasid-Misganed fight gets worse.

I didn't have knowledge of any of that but after hearing about Hasidism I think some syncretism is gonna happen. I still want them to be Christian because I want them to be accepted later on and them being partially Christian is the easiest way I can envision this.

 

[Enigmajones]

Interesting concept, but it took me a minute to get the Jewtah joke.

 

[Revachah]

Just have Jewish descended Mexicans maintain higher levels of hidden religious observance in say Nevada or a create a smaller more well defined state where they are in a position of power, make TONS of children and are the majority.

People forget the extent of Anuism in the Southwest and Northern Mexico. With Syrian Jewish migration and idk maybe a call from Jewish immigration by the late 19th century and you'll have a very strong Jewish state.

I'd also say actively incorporating freed indigenous slaves (free slaves of.jewish masters are according to the Talmud Jewish), converting indigenous mothers and the children and actively seeking Jewish settlers in the south and east coast through more zealous homesteaders could be helpful.

At the very least you could have a modern day reservation that is mostly Jewish or a federally recognized tribe who's status is on par to the Canadian Metis that are Jewish.

 

[Droman]

Perhaps the State of New Judah or New Samaria, would be more suitable.

Speaking of Samaria, perhaps that's your cue for a neo-Judaic populace to settle the American frontier? Expelled from the Levant by the Ottomans, finding sanctuary on Ellis Island and then being led by their High Priest to found a new Samaria in Exile...?

 

[sloreck]

While you could have a Jewish majority in "Jewtah", you can't stop non-Jews from coming in and while the majority may elect Jews to the political posts, you have the constitutional proscriptions against establishment of religion that will limit certain aspects of control, as the Mormons found out. Things like closing laws for Saturday (as opposed to Sunday) are certainly doable (until those laws and other religious based blue laws were struck down). Mandatory kosher rules for restaurants, forbidding the raising of swine or other non-kosher animals, not happening. IMHO one key for maintaining a Jewish majority in any state, is that its not terribly attractive as a destination. If you have rich farmlands, mineral wealth, etc you'll have a lot of non-Jewish settlers and others coming in , and there is no way to legally prevent it - discourage maybe but prevent no way. If there is some pull like that for settlers, you'll rather rapidly dilute the Jewish majority.

On top of those issues, the reality is that the Jews of "Jewtah" are not going to get any more support from the rest of the USA than the Mormons did. You have the "despised minority religion oppressing good Christians" meme just waiting to come out, the history of Mormon-federal interactions after the migration to Utah are replete with that.