The State of Franklin: A Local Perspective

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HillbillyJake

Howdy folks, I'm a longtime resident of East TN, and I'm creating this thread about the State of Franklin in order to pose a few questions and hopefully gain some insight from the larger AH community,

State of Franklin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If you're familiar with Appalachia, Early America, or the Civil War, you may have heard tell of this quasi-state. If you haven't, that's quite alright. The rundown is pretty much just "precursor to Tennessee, Revolutionary-era mountain men rail against North Carolina's rule." I'm from close to the area, albeit slightly west of Franklin's borders, but that hasn't blunted my fascination for the state and its history. Despite my decent familiarity with Franklin, there are a few questions that I wish to pose to the larger AH community:

1. What would a plausible Franklin state flag look like?
2. What would be more plausible circumstances for Franklin's statehood, 1784 or 1865?
 

HillbillyJake

In regards to my first question, here's what Wikipedia has to say:
"John Sevier also proposed to commission a Franklin state flag, but it was never designed."

After putting more thought into the questions, I realize the second one may need to be answered before the first. Generally, state flags at least attempt to convey some message central to that state. For example, Tennessee's OTL flag has 3 stars representing the Three Grand Divisions. As far as the Franklin flag question goes, I believe the state's "central message" would be quite malleable depending on the circumstances of statehood.

If Franklin gained statehood in the 1780s, the central message would probably be more "neutral" - not to say that the famed independent streak did not exist in her mountain-dwelling settlers, but that it would be a wholly different beast if, say, Franklin instead came about in the aftermath of the Civil War.

So, with that said, I'd like to hear what you all think about the second question I posed:
What would be more plausible circumstances for Franklin's statehood, 1784 or 1865?
 

HillbillyJake

www.thoughtco.com

The Story of Franklin, the State That Failed

The Lost State of Franklin lasted only five years, but led to an important provision regarding statehood in the Constitution.
www.thoughtco.com www.thoughtco.com

"However, as historian George W. Troxler notes in the Encyclopedia of North Carolina, Franklin’s organizers did not know at the time that North Carolina had decided to take it back.
'The December 1784 constitution of Franklin did not formally define its boundaries,' Troxler wrote. By implication, jurisdiction was assumed over all of the ceded territory and area approximating the future state of Tennessee.'"

If this source is to be trusted, apparently Franklin would have very similar borders to OTL's Tennessee - i.e. stretching all the way to the Mississippi.
 

HillbillyJake

Here's a somewhat plausible series of events I see happening in regards to Franklin's statehood
1784 - North Carolina doesn't rescind the cession of the Overmountain lands
1785 - John Sevier brings a petition for Frankland's statehood before Congress, but the admission fails by two votes (7 states voted, 9 states needed)
1786 - After attempting to curry Benjamin Franklin's favor by renaming the territory after him, his support lends enough weight to Franklin's second statehood attempt and it squeaks through Congress with the 9 yes votes needed
1786 - Franklin's borders are officially set, the state has its original borders, not stretching to the Mississippi.
1796 - The remainder of North Carolina's former western lands are admitted as the State of Tennessee

Why did I write the events this way?
1. I personally find the name Frankland unappealing (who was Frank? why did he deserve a land?)
2. From what I've seen thus far, I believe East TN's chances of statehood were much greater immediately after the Rev. War than anytime before, during, or after the Civil War

If y'all feel I've made an egregious mistake by laying out the draft the way I have, please let me know - I promise I've got thick skin
 

HillbillyJake

cloistered scholar said:
A state of Franklin during the Civil War could include parts of North Carolina and Georgia. Otherwise I think its too small.
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In regards to this: I don't think any parts of North Carolina or Georgia were ever included in the plans for this specific breakaway state, if I recall correctly it was just meant to be arved from Tennessee and Alabama. Also, I believe Nickajack may be a more likely name for a Civil War-born East TN state, but that's just me.

One more thing - You're absolutely right in saying that a Civil War E. TN state would very likely be much larger than a Revolutionary War E. TN state,
 

HillbillyJake

Screen Shot 2022-02-18 at 3.51.48 AM.png


On another note, if Franklin were to gain statehood in 1786, would it expand at all after the Civil War? I see Franklin's admission not acting terribly hard to butterfly anything, I imagine it would be a Union-supporting slave state, although I'm not too certain about the slave state part. IIRC, East TN's low rates of slavery were due to economic infeasibility, rather than a sense of righteous abolitionism.

The attached map shows OTL Franklin's original territory in green, Anti-Secession Tennessee in yellow, and Pro-Secession Tennessee in red.
 

HillbillyJake

jacobthebruh said:
Here's a somewhat plausible series of events I see happening in regards to Franklin's statehood
1784 - North Carolina doesn't rescind the cession of the Overmountain lands
1785 - John Sevier brings a petition for Frankland's statehood before Congress, but the admission fails by two votes (7 states voted, 9 states needed)
1786 - After attempting to curry Benjamin Franklin's favor by renaming the territory after him, his support lends enough weight to Franklin's second statehood attempt and it squeaks through Congress with the 9 yes votes needed
1786 - Franklin's borders are officially set, the state has its original borders, not stretching to the Mississippi.
1796 - The remainder of North Carolina's former western lands are admitted as the State of Tennessee

Why did I write the events this way?
1. I personally find the name Frankland unappealing (who was Frank? why did he deserve a land?)
2. From what I've seen thus far, I believe East TN's chances of statehood were much greater immediately after the Rev. War than anytime before, during, or after the Civil War

If y'all feel I've made an egregious mistake by laying out the draft the way I have, please let me know - I promise I've got thick skin
Click to expand...
After talking with a few people on Discord, I’ve decided that I’m most likely going to go with this Revolutionary War origin for Franklin. Keep in mind that this isn’t yet set in stone, so if anyone wishes to dissent, you’re welcome to do so
 
Tabs

Tabs

Fellow east Tennessean here, and I just want to note a state of Franklin would be fucking shit to live in. We’d probably be the poorest state in the Union and it’s not even close.

That said if you do write about it I’d be very interested, as the State of Franklin has always fascinated me.
 

HillbillyJake

Tabs said:
Fellow east Tennessean here, and I just want to note a state of Franklin would be fucking shit to live in. We’d probably be the poorest state in the Union and it’s not even close.

That said if you do write about it I’d be very interested, as the State of Franklin has always fascinated me.
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another East Tennessean? Heck yea

The thing is, if Franklin fully leveraged our natural resources, it could honestly have a fighting chance in today’s modern economy. That’s assuming the TVA still happens, Lamar Alexander isn’t around to block wind power initiatives, Great Smokies tourist money stays steady, and Oak Ridge is a Franklinite town.

Speaking of that last thing - what would Franklin’s demonym be, anyhow?
 
Tabs

Tabs

jacobthebruh said:
Speaking of that last thing - what would Franklin’s demonym be, anyhow?
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I’d say Franklinite, as you said. You’re definitely not wrong about the economy and all but, you do have to take butterflies into account. However yeah, the Smokies would really be our Yellowstone, regardless of the butterflies.

and also…. A TN without Lamar Alexander….. that’s a better TN for sure
 

HillbillyJake

Tabs said:
I’d say Franklinite, as you said. You’re definitely not wrong about the economy and all but, you do have to take butterflies into account. However yeah, the Smokies would really be our Yellowstone, regardless of the butterflies.

and also…. A TN without Lamar Alexander….. that’s a better TN for sure
Click to expand...
Nice. I’ll start posting a few historical maps of Franklin’s borders over time, but before I do that, would Franklin’s admission set a precedent of sorts? Instead of OTL’s path to statehood being (former state claim -> rescinded claim -> Congressionally created territory -> state), would we see more (former state claim -> free republic - state) instances ITTL?

I’m just trying to figure out how many butterflies Franklin’s admission would spawn
 
Tabs

Tabs

jacobthebruh said:
Nice. I’ll start posting a few historical maps of Franklin’s borders over time, but before I do that, would Franklin’s admission set a precedent of sorts? Instead of OTL’s path to statehood being (former state claim -> rescinded claim -> Congressionally created territory -> state), would we see more (former state claim -> free republic - state) instances ITTL?

I’m just trying to figure out how many butterflies Franklin’s admission would spawn
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That I don’y know, you’ll have to ask somebody a bit more knowledgeable on that matter. But I can certainly see some states at least trying it.
 
Viking25

Viking25

Tabs said:
Fellow east Tennessean here, and I just want to note a state of Franklin would be fucking shit to live in. We’d probably be the poorest state in the Union and it’s not even close.

That said if you do write about it I’d be very interested, as the State of Franklin has always fascinated me.
Click to expand...
Hey at least people would make fun of Missispi less!
 
Viking25

Viking25

jacobthebruh said:
Same here, there’s a difference in circumstance though - Nickajack refers to the more southeasterly regions of TN, while Franklin is generally used for the northeasterly regions
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Nickajack? Really that was an actual name for the state? Sounds like a Strip Club lol
 
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