The Shi'ite-Sufi Order of Brazil

John Kanjvan

I am new to alternatehistory.com so this is my first thread. This will probably be quite unrealistic so bear with me. So my idea is a Portuguese merchant travels through the Middle East in 1565, including parts of the Safavid Empire. He soon is impressed with the Safavid's Twelver Shi'ite Islam and continues to study it for the length of his trip. He ends up converting to the religion and furthers his travels by making the hajj pilgrimage and traveling throughout the Islamic World. He also stumbles across Sufism and starts to read works of Rumi and other poets. When he returns to Portugal he is considered a heretic, and sent to forced labor to work in the colony of Brazil. In secrecy he establishes the (insert his name) Twelver Shia Sufi Order of Brasil. Most of his disciples are Black slaves and Natives who were disgruntled by the Portuguese's treatment. The Portuguese soon find out about this and execute him making him a martyr to his cause. His movement lives on gaining more momentum after his killing, more and more slaves are converting. As a result many slave rebellions happen but are swiftly put down, yet they are not able to put down the religious movement. Many of the followers hide in the jungles making ambush attacks on the Portuguese. Eventually the Portuguese grow tired of this constant disruption and allow the remaining set of Shi'ite to practice and be free as long as they respect the crowns authority. They agree and establish several Imambaras( Shia Mosques) across Brazil. Soon many rich plantain owners convert making the religion more balanced and not exclusive to the poor and non-white minorities. Many separatists wanting independence convert to this creed, making it a symbol of Brazilian Nationalism. Brazil inevitably is granted independence and many more convert to this creed as a symbol of nationalism forming 36% of the population.

Here are some things I need help with:
How could this be more plausible?
What would be the merchants Catholic name?
What would be his Arabic convert name?
How would that be latinized as?
Would more Lebanese Shi'ites come to Brazil than Christians?
How would modern South America Look?
Would this bring huge changes to OTL outside of Brazil?
How would the Brazilian view on Islam be post 9/11?
Would Rio De Janeiro have a statue of the Imam Ali instead of Jesus?
 
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Intransigent Southerner

Welcome!

This is a pretty interesting point of divergence and there certainly were Portuguese across the Indian Ocean who converted to Islam (usually to marry Muslim women, but true conviction must have played a role too).

The issue is that such a movement would probably be suppressed quite quickly. Brazil did actually have a group of slaves practicing Islam in the 19th century, they even rebelled once. Yet Christian persecution made the Muslim community extinct in a few decades. Here, with one white dude trying to convert people all on his own, Islam will be nipped in the bud even faster.
 

John Kanjvan

Intransigent Southerner said:
Welcome!

This is a pretty interesting point of divergence and there certainly were Portuguese across the Indian Ocean who converted to Islam (usually to marry Muslim women, but true conviction must have played a role too).

The issue is that such a movement would probably be suppressed quite quickly. Brazil did actually have a group of slaves practicing Islam in the 19th century, they even rebelled once. Yet Christian persecution made the Muslim community extinct in a few decades. Here, with one white dude trying to convert people all on his own, Islam will be nipped in the bud even faster.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Hmmm damn what could they do to appease to monarchy? Like is there no feasible way?
 

John Kanjvan

Intransigent Southerner said:
It’s a little hard to fathom one, Portugal was still caught in reconquista ideology and the concept of holy war against the Moor. Islam in the New World is a no-no.
Click to expand...

Could the physical geography help them out. Is it possible for them to hide deep in the amazon? Maybe if they hold on long enough they could carry out small raids against the colony. Later down the line maybe they could ally themselves with the dutch or french wanting to take Brazil for themselves?
 

John Kanjvan

Another idea may be to make the Portuguese much more brutal in the new world and over taxation of the white colonists giving room for an earlier independent brazil?
 

John Kanjvan

Intransigent Southerner said:
It’s a little hard to fathom one, Portugal was still caught in reconquista ideology and the concept of holy war against the Moor. Islam in the New World is a no-no.
Click to expand...
Lets say King Sebastian I is magically some how in some weird way is influenced by this Sufi into converting to Islam. He travels to Brazil to meet his influence, but back home most Portuguese were furious of his conversion and rebelled with support of the church. They soon throne a more orthodox retaliative of his in Portugal (selected by the church). Lets say his navy and 1/4 of his army stay loyal to him and he moves his support base to Brazil establishing a kingdom there. The dynasty still claims the Portuguese throne, but gives up after a few generations. Would this possibly work?
 

Lampiao

All these PODs are highly implausible. The best that you can get is a handful of Sahelian slaves maintaining their already syncretic Islam and eventually it would syncretize even more with African-Brazilian religions and simply become a part of it. ie. in Candomble some people wear around their neck pieces of coloured cloth symbolizing their Orixás, it can be traced back to the African habit of wearing pieces of the Quran around the neck.

John Kanjvan said:
Could the physical geography help them out. Is it possible for them to hide deep in the amazon? Maybe if they hold on long enough they could carry out small raids against the colony. Later down the line maybe they could ally themselves with the dutch or french wanting to take Brazil for themselves?
Click to expand...

You do realize that to suggest that Colonial Brazilians can flee to the Amazon is equivalent to Colonial Virginians immigrate to, let's say, Utah?

John Kanjvan said:
Lets say King Sebastian I is magically some how in some weird way is influenced by this Sufi into converting to Islam. He travels to Brazil to meet his influence, but back home most Portuguese were furious of his conversion and rebelled with support of the church. They soon throne a more orthodox retaliative of his in Portugal (selected by the church). Lets say his navy and 1/4 of his army stay loyal to him and he moves his support base to Brazil establishing a kingdom there. The dynasty still claims the Portuguese throne, but gives up after a few generations. Would this possibly work?
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that people love their king enough to convert en masse to the enemy's religion?
 

John Kanjvan

Lampiao said:
All these PODs are highly implausible. The best that you can get is a handful of Sahelian slaves maintaining their already syncretic Islam and eventually it would syncretize even more with African-Brazilian religions and simply become a part of it. ie. in Candomble some people wear around their neck pieces of coloured cloth symbolizing their Orixás, it can be traced back to the African habit of wearing pieces of the Quran around the neck.



You do realize that to suggest that Colonial Brazilians can flee to the Amazon is equivalent to Colonial Virginians immigrate to, let's say, Utah?



Are you suggesting that people love their king enough to convert en masse to the enemy's religion?
Click to expand...
No I am saying mostly Black slaves, The people of Portugal rebel
 

John7755 يوحنا

Lampiao said:
All these PODs are highly implausible. The best that you can get is a handful of Sahelian slaves maintaining their already syncretic Islam and eventually it would syncretize even more with African-Brazilian religions and simply become a part of it. ie. in Candomble some people wear around their neck pieces of coloured cloth symbolizing their Orixás, it can be traced back to the African habit of wearing pieces of the Quran around the neck.



You do realize that to suggest that Colonial Brazilians can flee to the Amazon is equivalent to Colonial Virginians immigrate to, let's say, Utah?



Are you suggesting that people love their king enough to convert en masse to the enemy's religion?
Click to expand...

I concur with this. You could even have a more and more syncretic Christianity with certain Shi'i aspects. However, to have a wholly Muslim Brazil is unlikely.
 

John Kanjvan

Lampiao said:
You do realize that to suggest that Colonial Brazilians can flee to the Amazon is equivalent to Colonial Virginians immigrate to, let's say, Utah?"
Click to expand...
Everheard of the maroon people? It has happened before. There were several
Quilombos made by escaped african slaves in Brazil
 
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