Hehe, don't worry. Historians are not going to leave Henry's trip north out of their books
The Queen is Dead!: Katherine of Aragon dies in 1518
- Thread starter FalconHonour
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Plus Henry wouldn't want to 'dignify' the rebellion with his presence. It is just Ireland after all, in this era, Ireland is a complete backwater, and technically still a Papal fief, Henry is just ruling it on the Pope's behalf.
The only outcome of this war will probably be formalizing English control of Ireland, making Henry it's official King, and ITTL buying it off the Pope.
I really enjoy “history book style” it gives the story more dimension and context.
Although it makes me wonder which royal Mr FitzSutton is related to.
I have no idea. Honestly? I just rehashed a lot of my old lecturers/colleague's names to create ITTL historians (and used one outright in honour of my favourite tutor... but no, I'm not telling you which, haha!)
I will, however, tell you if you get it right if you'd like to guess when all this is over!
Oh ok fair enough, that’s an interesting way of doing it. I was just curious in case there was a canon back story.
The title of the volume in this series would imply that’s England holds on to their French lands longer than OTL?
I’m excited to see where this goes
Indeed they do - they certainly have it to the end of Lionel's grandson's reign...
Does this imply that in 1575, Lionel’s grandson is the last Tudor?
Nope. ITTL, I imagine the Tudor dynasty going all the way to modern day - but unlike @aurora01, I do not have anything planned out. I have a rough plan to c. 1575, but not past that - and as I've said before, I'm only writing up to 1531 in detail. 1533-1575 I'm covering in epilogues in history book style
Nope. ITTL, I imagine the Tudor dynasty going all the way to modern day - but unlike @aurora01, I do not have anything planned out. I have a rough plan to c. 1575, but not past that - and as I've said before, I'm only writing up to 1531 in detail. 1533-1575 I'm covering in epilogues in history book style
Not that I recommend it either, our family tree is enormous
Hehe. My FamilyEcho page for this TL gets more sprawling by the day...Not that I recommend it either, our family tree is enormous
Ha, I just checked ours. Currently stands at 337 people and we stopped mapping out the siblings marriages at one point otherwise my brain cells might decide to turn into lemmings.
VVD0D95
Banned
Aha I sympathise, mapping out family trees to the modern day is exhaustingNope. ITTL, I imagine the Tudor dynasty going all the way to modern day - but unlike @aurora01, I do not have anything planned out. I have a rough plan to c. 1575, but not past that - and as I've said before, I'm only writing up to 1531 in detail. 1533-1575 I'm covering in epilogues in history book style
I had to only do enough info to fill out the List of Monarchs faux wiki pages or would have gone insane, but I really really wanted to do everyone.
Hehe, don't worry. Historians are not going to leave Henry's trip north out of their books
Denmark and Scotland were fairly close knit during this period because of marriage ties, I believe. Wouldn't have anything to do with Gustav Vasa's rebellion against King Christian II of Denmark? IIRC, Elizabeth was courted by Swedish royals after the two kingdoms split...
A casual source I found in googling:
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Ah well, that would be spoilers, wouldn't it? You're just going to have to wait and see 😉
Section CLXXII - Ireland 1528-1531 (II)
"Henry VIII lost no time in making moves to suppress what he referred to in a letter to Charles Brandon as the ‘Christmas Rising’. His first move was to write to Pope Clement VII, seeking confirmation of the fact that England held Ireland as a Papal fief. This, he received in the spring of 1529, by which time he had already dispatched Brandon and a force of 5000 men to Dublin, with orders to combine with the supplementary force that Anthony Knivert, Viscount Lovell, was bringing from Normandy, and drive north into Gaelic Ireland to suppress the ‘rebel earls’ as he called Brian Og of Osraige, Conn O’Neil of Tir Eoghain, and Hugh O’Donnell of Tyrconnell.
Brandon used the same technique of chevauchee that had served the English so well in taking Normandy, sweeping through the country fast and burning what his troops could not use. He knew that the Gaelic were not trained to fight a pitched battle the way his soldiers were, and decided that the best chance he had of forcing the Gaelic Lords into submission was to deny them the fruits of the land they knew and loved so well.
It was not an easy task. The few dispatches we still have from the era suggest that Brandon and Lord Lovell were barely out of the saddle for two years, harrying the rebels and/or riding through the Pale soliciting support from loyal dynasties such as the Fitzgeralds of Kildare, the Butlers and the Boleyns of Ormonde and Pembroke. Indeed, the new Lord Ormonde himself seems to have fought at the battle of Tawnybrack in County Antrim in 1530, for Lord Lovell’s report declares him to be both ‘valiant’ and ‘grievously wounded’. Unusually, there is no description of the wound, which has led historians to speculate that the Queen’s brother may have been damaged in the more private nether regions, especially when the injury is coupled with the fact that, despite having had five pregnancies in the first six years of her marriage, so far as we know, the Countess of Ormonde and Pembroke failed to fall pregnant after the birth of her daughter Lady Matilda in June 1527.
By the spring of 1531, King Henry was losing patience. Ireland was becoming a dangerous drain on his resources, especially when he always had to keep one eye on Normandy, for fear King Francis would try to seize the lands he had once lost. Having tried vinegar, he now tried to catch his flies with honey. He sent envoys to O’Donnell and O’Neill, promising them that, if they would only surrender to him, he would grant them back their lands as Earldoms under his sovereignty, sovereignty he had gained a few months earlier by paying the Pope a princely sum equivalent to more than ten years' worth of tithes from the English Church.
It was a bold gamble, but, as many of Henry VIII’s gambles seem to have done, it paid off. O’Donnell and O’Neill submitted to Brandon, Lovell and Lord Ormonde – as Lord Pembroke was always known in Ireland - in March 1531, before sailing for Westminster and swearing allegiance to Henry VIII, King of England and Ireland, as newly-created Earls at the Easter Court of 1531.
Without the support of more powerful Gaelic lords, Brian Og’s own rebellion, stoked by his wish to reclaim his ancestral lands from the King’s natural daughter, Lady Grace Fitzroy, fizzled out. He seems to have faded into obscurity after the end of the uprising, for we see him in the records only once more, when he appears at Lord Pembroke’s Michaelmas feast at Raglan in 1533, handing his new-born son, Barnaby, over to Lord Pembroke’s custody as a guarantee of his good behaviour."
Brandon used the same technique of chevauchee that had served the English so well in taking Normandy, sweeping through the country fast and burning what his troops could not use. He knew that the Gaelic were not trained to fight a pitched battle the way his soldiers were, and decided that the best chance he had of forcing the Gaelic Lords into submission was to deny them the fruits of the land they knew and loved so well.
It was not an easy task. The few dispatches we still have from the era suggest that Brandon and Lord Lovell were barely out of the saddle for two years, harrying the rebels and/or riding through the Pale soliciting support from loyal dynasties such as the Fitzgeralds of Kildare, the Butlers and the Boleyns of Ormonde and Pembroke. Indeed, the new Lord Ormonde himself seems to have fought at the battle of Tawnybrack in County Antrim in 1530, for Lord Lovell’s report declares him to be both ‘valiant’ and ‘grievously wounded’. Unusually, there is no description of the wound, which has led historians to speculate that the Queen’s brother may have been damaged in the more private nether regions, especially when the injury is coupled with the fact that, despite having had five pregnancies in the first six years of her marriage, so far as we know, the Countess of Ormonde and Pembroke failed to fall pregnant after the birth of her daughter Lady Matilda in June 1527.
By the spring of 1531, King Henry was losing patience. Ireland was becoming a dangerous drain on his resources, especially when he always had to keep one eye on Normandy, for fear King Francis would try to seize the lands he had once lost. Having tried vinegar, he now tried to catch his flies with honey. He sent envoys to O’Donnell and O’Neill, promising them that, if they would only surrender to him, he would grant them back their lands as Earldoms under his sovereignty, sovereignty he had gained a few months earlier by paying the Pope a princely sum equivalent to more than ten years' worth of tithes from the English Church.
It was a bold gamble, but, as many of Henry VIII’s gambles seem to have done, it paid off. O’Donnell and O’Neill submitted to Brandon, Lovell and Lord Ormonde – as Lord Pembroke was always known in Ireland - in March 1531, before sailing for Westminster and swearing allegiance to Henry VIII, King of England and Ireland, as newly-created Earls at the Easter Court of 1531.
Without the support of more powerful Gaelic lords, Brian Og’s own rebellion, stoked by his wish to reclaim his ancestral lands from the King’s natural daughter, Lady Grace Fitzroy, fizzled out. He seems to have faded into obscurity after the end of the uprising, for we see him in the records only once more, when he appears at Lord Pembroke’s Michaelmas feast at Raglan in 1533, handing his new-born son, Barnaby, over to Lord Pembroke’s custody as a guarantee of his good behaviour."
_______Connor FitzSutton “Taking Root: The first Century of the Tudor dynasty: 1485-1575, Vol II ‘Ireland’”
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