I just really wanted a different imperial house this time to shake things up. Plus you know, chaos and destruction as usual 😆
The Prince of the Roses - A Tudor TL
- Thread starter BlueFlowwer
- Start date
Well considering that they could end up inheriting Otl dynastic heritage of the Austrian Habsburgs ( if things go like Otl between Suleiman and the Louis II ) to which Bavaria and Wurttemberg are added, it would be a really important power base, which could allow them to compete with France ( not on par yet, but enough to be a worthy opponent but at least we have more than a third of the HRE under the direct control of a single dynasty, which would be quite an achievement ) therefore they would be truly capable of fighting with the French on the field for control of Italy ( obviously always if the Ottomans and Protestants do not create problems at the same time, which is quite possible ) also looking forward to reading Salzburg become a New Imperial Capital
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If Louis and Mary doesn't have children then I think the next Jagellion heir will try to claim Bohemia and Hungary, but those kingdoms are elected, so more claimants can try. Austria can likely go to one of Christian and Isabella's children perhaps in this case.
True that.
I doubt it, I believe that the Austrian nobility would prefer to go with those who hold Bohemia and Hungary ( if we also add Bavaria to this, it becomes almost certain something similar ) than with the lame Burgundy of TTL , given the enormous advantages ( including economic ones ) that they would obtain from maintaining this union ( since now, from what I understand, they are under the control of Maria and Louis ) and solid certainties of not being totally ignored in government matters
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technically until they have children, suitable to succeed them, the heirs of the couple will be Anna and Wilhelm, quite similar to what happened in Otl with Ferdinando and Anna
That I know and it would incorporate Austria, Hungary and Bohemia into the Bavarians emperor's domains. But what is the fun in doing that? 😛
That's still better for French than Habsburgs or Isabella of Austria's husband being elected Emperor, so they have every reason to support Frederick.
True that. I originally wanted to keep this story contained to England mostly, as the first chapter and the epilogue were the first things written, but then I started thinking. Charles V is such a important person is the first half of 16th century, the emperor on whose domains the sun never settle, the universal monarch, the one that Francis fights with all the time and that Henry had to deal with, the one whose troops sacked Rome and all that Charlemagne shenanigans that was such a defining part of this time period.
What if he died in 1517 before becoming much of anything? Plus I wanted to just shatter those huge universal domains he had otl, as the Spanish dominions passing to Ferdinand, the Low Countries going to Isabella and Christian, Austria going to Mary and Louis and the HRE itself going to the other Hapsburg cousins in Bavaria.
The winner of this is clearly France, and you know, Spain and Rome that will not be wrecked to hell and back, but also Catherine of Aragon who lost her biggest ally (sort of, I know!), but had the son she needed to protect herself instead. Plus perhaps this will benefit the Hapsburgs as well as they can focus on their separate realms instead. Although the Ottomans are gonna come pretty soon, so who knows really!
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Not really as Oldenburgs and Jagiellons are not Habsburgs. But it's true that world without Charles V would be interesting.
Chapter 9 - 1523
Chapter 9 - 1523
The barge sailed along the Thames toward Richmond palace. The queen had left the monastery of Syon at the riverside behind her, the religious centre that was known for its learning and devotion at since many decades and Catherine had been personally advocating in the favour of Agnes Jordan as its abbess three years ago. Syon was to her what the Monastery of Our Lady of Guadalupe had been to her mother, Isabella of Castile, and the lives of the nuns and monks at the monastery more than often reminded her of home these days. Perhaps it was the death of Juana that had made her even more sentimental these days, or perhaps it was the fact that another part of her life had begun. Her childbearing years was over. The birth of Mary two years ago had indeed been her last pregnancy as she suspected. She could not complain too much, as she had provided England with the longed-for heir, a spare and a princess to boot, much to her husband’s joy. Prince Edward was seven, Hal five and Mary was toddling around in the nursery in Eltham. Much to her relief, her children were all strong and healthy, with Ned practicing with his wooden sword pretending to be the great King Henry V who conquered near all of France, Hal who loved to play with his puppies and her darling little girl with rosy cheeks.
Queen Catherine in 1525
Catherine’s own looks were fading. Her auburn hair had become streaked with grey strands and wrinkles had become more prominent, not that her sons cared one bit for that. To Hal she was the fairest one still, and the one who turned to her often for plays, cuddles or stories. Mary, her cossetted girl, often picked flowers and weeds for her when she came to Eltham and Catherine found herself doting more and more on her. The queen was an attentive mother and from 1523 and onwards she took a more personal hand in her children’s upbringing, as Ned reached the age when his formal studies began. So did King Henry, as he wanted to ensure his children were brought up as proper royals. Friars from Syon had been selected to provide lessons in morality and religion to the boys and Ned had begun to learn Latin from his mother as well. Henry had provided him with his first pony, while Hal was furious over being too small to ride yet. Catherine had gotten a humanist education back in Castile, and she had lured the Spanish humanist Juan Luis Vives to England with the help of Woolsey and Thomas More, the latter who had become a more influential person in Henry’s circle and his secretary since 1520. Catherine far preferred him rather than the domineering cardinal Woolsey. So did Ned it seemed, and the queen had asked him to help curate lessons for her sons, as well as John Fisher, the bishop of Rochester. Ned seemed very found of Sir Thomas and often pestered him for stories, much to More’s amusement. More seemed to be fond of his little student as well and John More had found himself a position in Ned’s household. In 1523 Ned had left behind the nursery, as he had been breeched for over a year and had gotten his own little court in Wales. Young sons of the nobility such as William Willoughby, John de Vere and Henry Howard, all nearly the same age as Ned had joined his little circle of friends.
In 1523 the relationship between Catherine and Henry changed in some ways. As Catherine’s fertile years were over, their marriage would become more stable as they focused on their mutual goals, namely their children’s future. While they still shared a bed plenty of times after, Henry’s roving eyes wandered. Catherine’s status was secured and if her husband wanted to flirt with her ladies, then he could do so. Catherine remained his cherished wife and the first lady of England and the court itself, while Henry was her Sir Loyal Heart, but their mutual physical attraction had mellowed into a comfortable companionship from that point onwards. The later stage of Catherine’s life showed in her dress sense as well. Her wardrobe at this point leaned towards the elegantly serious. Rich fabrics in dark tones such as russet, crimson and violet dominated her outfits, with materials being velvets and satins accompanied with ropes of pearls and gold beads and jewelled crosses. Her name was uttered with reverence by those who addressed her: Serenissima domina Catherina. The most serene Lady Catherine.
With her standing secured in England, Catherine turned to her children more often. As the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, her relatives ruled various kingdoms and no doubt Ned, Hal and Mary was to become part of that broad network in the continental Europe. The death of Charles of Austria had been a harsh blow as Spain and Austria had been separated from each others and the empire had fallen to other German ruling houses, but she was still the aunt of the duchess of the low country, the queen of Hungary and Bohemia, the king of Portugal and the king of Spain. The latter was the most crucial, as Catherine desired strongly to bind her native Spain closer to England once more. Her children were the means to do so. The two children of Ferdinand and Isabella would be excellent marriage partners for either Ned or Mary, despite Ned’s betrothal to Charlotte of France at this time. Prince Juan or Infanta Isabella was to be either her son or daughter in law, as Catherine made up her mind for a Spanish marriage for the future. As the children in questions were all seven or younger, there would be more than a decade before any marriages could occur. But to Catherine, who had been pledged to Arthur while still a toddler, this was a less concern. Her husband needed to be convinced first and Catherine begun to map up a strategy for that.
Prince Edward and Henry, Duke of York in 1523
King Henry’s romantic relationship with Bessie Blount had ended with the birth of Elizabeth Fitzroy in 1519, but her place as his mistress had been taken by Lady Mary Boleyn, who had returned from France in the same year and had been appointed as one of the queen’s ladies. In 1520, she had become his sweetheart, but had taken great pains to not offend her mistress. Henry began another dalliance with another one of Catherine’s maids in 1523, Margaret Dymoke, whose husband served in the royal household. Margaret was a woman of “such sweet character as any gentle maiden” and thus not a threat to Catherine either.
In the winter, Catherine begun to make the motions for a Spanish match for Mary. Her help was Juan Luis Vives himself as the Spaniard had connections to both the Tudors and the court in Castile. Henry proved receptive to the idea of making his darling pearl the queen of Spain and sent for the Spanish ambassador, Inigo de Mendoza, an old friend from Castile. Catherine was delighted to see him and he attended the celebrations at the end of the year; with a truly spectacular Christmas feast in Richmond Palace, filled to the brim with wintery dishes served on gold and silver plates, holly and burning yule logs at the fireplaces and gifts being exchanged.
To Catherine the year had ended with great contention. But to Henry, his own family was widening as well. Despite the death of his sister Mary’s oldest son, his second namesake nephew was thriving and Margaret Dymoke was expecting a child that all knew had been fathered by the king himself. And Catherine herself found another addition to her household in the shape of Anne Boleyn, whom had returned back to England after several years at the court in France.
Author's Note: A year in the Tudor life! I just wanted to stay with Catherine this time. And Anne Boleyn snuck in at the end. She is very sneaky.
The barge sailed along the Thames toward Richmond palace. The queen had left the monastery of Syon at the riverside behind her, the religious centre that was known for its learning and devotion at since many decades and Catherine had been personally advocating in the favour of Agnes Jordan as its abbess three years ago. Syon was to her what the Monastery of Our Lady of Guadalupe had been to her mother, Isabella of Castile, and the lives of the nuns and monks at the monastery more than often reminded her of home these days. Perhaps it was the death of Juana that had made her even more sentimental these days, or perhaps it was the fact that another part of her life had begun. Her childbearing years was over. The birth of Mary two years ago had indeed been her last pregnancy as she suspected. She could not complain too much, as she had provided England with the longed-for heir, a spare and a princess to boot, much to her husband’s joy. Prince Edward was seven, Hal five and Mary was toddling around in the nursery in Eltham. Much to her relief, her children were all strong and healthy, with Ned practicing with his wooden sword pretending to be the great King Henry V who conquered near all of France, Hal who loved to play with his puppies and her darling little girl with rosy cheeks.
Queen Catherine in 1525
Catherine’s own looks were fading. Her auburn hair had become streaked with grey strands and wrinkles had become more prominent, not that her sons cared one bit for that. To Hal she was the fairest one still, and the one who turned to her often for plays, cuddles or stories. Mary, her cossetted girl, often picked flowers and weeds for her when she came to Eltham and Catherine found herself doting more and more on her. The queen was an attentive mother and from 1523 and onwards she took a more personal hand in her children’s upbringing, as Ned reached the age when his formal studies began. So did King Henry, as he wanted to ensure his children were brought up as proper royals. Friars from Syon had been selected to provide lessons in morality and religion to the boys and Ned had begun to learn Latin from his mother as well. Henry had provided him with his first pony, while Hal was furious over being too small to ride yet. Catherine had gotten a humanist education back in Castile, and she had lured the Spanish humanist Juan Luis Vives to England with the help of Woolsey and Thomas More, the latter who had become a more influential person in Henry’s circle and his secretary since 1520. Catherine far preferred him rather than the domineering cardinal Woolsey. So did Ned it seemed, and the queen had asked him to help curate lessons for her sons, as well as John Fisher, the bishop of Rochester. Ned seemed very found of Sir Thomas and often pestered him for stories, much to More’s amusement. More seemed to be fond of his little student as well and John More had found himself a position in Ned’s household. In 1523 Ned had left behind the nursery, as he had been breeched for over a year and had gotten his own little court in Wales. Young sons of the nobility such as William Willoughby, John de Vere and Henry Howard, all nearly the same age as Ned had joined his little circle of friends.
In 1523 the relationship between Catherine and Henry changed in some ways. As Catherine’s fertile years were over, their marriage would become more stable as they focused on their mutual goals, namely their children’s future. While they still shared a bed plenty of times after, Henry’s roving eyes wandered. Catherine’s status was secured and if her husband wanted to flirt with her ladies, then he could do so. Catherine remained his cherished wife and the first lady of England and the court itself, while Henry was her Sir Loyal Heart, but their mutual physical attraction had mellowed into a comfortable companionship from that point onwards. The later stage of Catherine’s life showed in her dress sense as well. Her wardrobe at this point leaned towards the elegantly serious. Rich fabrics in dark tones such as russet, crimson and violet dominated her outfits, with materials being velvets and satins accompanied with ropes of pearls and gold beads and jewelled crosses. Her name was uttered with reverence by those who addressed her: Serenissima domina Catherina. The most serene Lady Catherine.
With her standing secured in England, Catherine turned to her children more often. As the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, her relatives ruled various kingdoms and no doubt Ned, Hal and Mary was to become part of that broad network in the continental Europe. The death of Charles of Austria had been a harsh blow as Spain and Austria had been separated from each others and the empire had fallen to other German ruling houses, but she was still the aunt of the duchess of the low country, the queen of Hungary and Bohemia, the king of Portugal and the king of Spain. The latter was the most crucial, as Catherine desired strongly to bind her native Spain closer to England once more. Her children were the means to do so. The two children of Ferdinand and Isabella would be excellent marriage partners for either Ned or Mary, despite Ned’s betrothal to Charlotte of France at this time. Prince Juan or Infanta Isabella was to be either her son or daughter in law, as Catherine made up her mind for a Spanish marriage for the future. As the children in questions were all seven or younger, there would be more than a decade before any marriages could occur. But to Catherine, who had been pledged to Arthur while still a toddler, this was a less concern. Her husband needed to be convinced first and Catherine begun to map up a strategy for that.
Prince Edward and Henry, Duke of York in 1523
King Henry’s romantic relationship with Bessie Blount had ended with the birth of Elizabeth Fitzroy in 1519, but her place as his mistress had been taken by Lady Mary Boleyn, who had returned from France in the same year and had been appointed as one of the queen’s ladies. In 1520, she had become his sweetheart, but had taken great pains to not offend her mistress. Henry began another dalliance with another one of Catherine’s maids in 1523, Margaret Dymoke, whose husband served in the royal household. Margaret was a woman of “such sweet character as any gentle maiden” and thus not a threat to Catherine either.
In the winter, Catherine begun to make the motions for a Spanish match for Mary. Her help was Juan Luis Vives himself as the Spaniard had connections to both the Tudors and the court in Castile. Henry proved receptive to the idea of making his darling pearl the queen of Spain and sent for the Spanish ambassador, Inigo de Mendoza, an old friend from Castile. Catherine was delighted to see him and he attended the celebrations at the end of the year; with a truly spectacular Christmas feast in Richmond Palace, filled to the brim with wintery dishes served on gold and silver plates, holly and burning yule logs at the fireplaces and gifts being exchanged.
To Catherine the year had ended with great contention. But to Henry, his own family was widening as well. Despite the death of his sister Mary’s oldest son, his second namesake nephew was thriving and Margaret Dymoke was expecting a child that all knew had been fathered by the king himself. And Catherine herself found another addition to her household in the shape of Anne Boleyn, whom had returned back to England after several years at the court in France.
Author's Note: A year in the Tudor life! I just wanted to stay with Catherine this time. And Anne Boleyn snuck in at the end. She is very sneaky.
Your standard catchphrase at this point! But fear not, I shall take your compliment with joy!
To be honest, I have little to no idea. But she will never be Henry's wife or mistress in this story.
Thank you so much!
Ofc not. Homegirl Cat is safe from that. And she wouldn’t be his mistress. She could have a kind fate and have her Percy match here?