The New World of the White Huns

Money for Nothing
We will almost certainly see reformers who attempt to weaken the varna system, in much the same way that the French Revolution (and liberalism in general) saw reformers try to weaken all the outdated systems holding back the conservative regimes of Europe. I don't wanna get too much into spoiler territory.

I don't know about seeing all of India as the holy land, but there are lots of Buddhist pilgrimage spots in India. Sarnath comes to mind off the top of my head, but the Buddha's birthplace and death place and whatnot (I don't have the names in front of me right now) are also significant spots of pilgrimage. For Hinduism of course Varanasi is important, and since plenty of people in India especially are both Hindu and Buddhist I'd expect that many people go to Sarnath/Varanasi at the same time.

Of course, there's lots of pilgrimage sites the world over. There's some great temple complexes in the Khmer Empire and in Majachaiya like Borobudur [okay, I know it's after our PoD but I can't be expected to make everything up whole cloth] that also have significant importance. In general, most people right now wouldn't travel all the way back to India - they'd just stop off at their local most important pilgrimage site.

Hinduism (or at least Indian religious ideas and practices) have spread dramatically! Huge numbers of people across Southeastern Asia (Indo-China) are Hindu, as are a lot of people in Majachaiya. That's millions of people. East Africa is also majority Hindu, with a lot of Shaivism.

A lot of the more orthoprax Hindus would consider Buddha an avatar of Visnu. Others would consider him a religious philosopher who was just wrong about some basic ideas, like the existence of the self. Still others consider him to be an enlightened teacher, and are Buddhists while continuing to worship either members of the traditional Vedic pantheon, Shiva, Visnu, Shakti, etc. or their own local gods like Jagannath.

Here is a quick overview of the Indian subcontinent in the 14th Century, which should get people somewhat back up to speed as to what's going on in post-Sahputi India:

Money for Nothing

The titanic wars between the Chandratreya and Pala dynasties were primarily fought by proxies, but when the two great nations clashed in earnest, their battles usually took place along the Upper and Lower Doabs. It was always a matter of Chandratreya strategy to split open the back of the Pala Empire by winning control of the Ganges in some part. In the Kannauj campaigns of 1326, the Chandratreya came dizzyingly close to accomplishing this goal for the first time, but ultimately their armies outpaced their lines of supply and the Chandratreya commander had to endure a frustrating march back up the Betwa River and towards the official censure that would end his career.

But even as the Pala celebrated their victory at Kannauj, the tide was shifting. Although it would not be until a decade later that the first real Gurjaratra Kingdom [OTL Rajasthan] would be declared in the Northwest, the tensions between the Gurjar soldiers that made up a significant portion the armies in the West and their Chandratreya and Pala paymasters began to grow. The Gurjar, for their part, had fought for and against the Sahputi during their invasion, but primarily against, and now were disinclined to accept the rule of either the Pala or the Chandratreya as an indefinite conclusion of Pala “assistance” in liberating the subcontinent. Aided by the soldiers of other fiercely independent tribal groups such as the Kathi, Paramara and Bhils, they began resisting orders and deserting en masse, often aided by convenient Chandratreya and Pala “gifts.”

The Chandratreya, less overstretched than the Pala, had their own share of problems, in large part inaugurated by a horrifically poor foreign policy despite having excluded the Ansara Suf dynasty from the White Elephant Concordat in 1306, they suddenly and abruptly reversed course, courting the Iranians as allies against the Pala. This led to the Ansara Suf invasion of Gandhara in 1327, where they seized Taksa, Mardan and Poshapura before advancing south along the Sindh, besieging Lohawar, the former Sahputi capital early the next year. Despite the Pala designing a massive and complex earthwork defense around the city, the main Pala army was forced to withdraw before the Iranian forces completely encircled the city, and ultimately the City of Princes fell without a shot being fired. Finding Kannauj once again besieged, the Pala army was forced to retreat south towards Multan.

The Pala were able to sign a temporary peace with their new enemies, but the emergence of new competitor in the north sounded the death knell of their ambitions there. Over the next decade, they would lose the entirety of Sindh and Pajcanada to the Iranians. The Chandratreya, realizing that their dream of controlling the Sindh now belonged to a foreign occupier, immediately reversed course and attacked the Iranian garrisons – driving the Ansara Suf back into Gandhara (from which they would not be easily ejected) but at the cost of hundreds of thousands of casualties which they could ill afford. As the 1330’s drew to a close, it became increasingly evident that the Chandratreya monarchy was under significant strain. Dharapatta Chandratreya’s dream of a universal empire stretching across the entire subcontinent – the Maurya or Maukhani restored – had a habit of taking one step forward and two steps back.

The Cevirukkai, the great Mahratta banking house (now based out of the rapidly expanding port city of Thana [OTL Mumbai]) saw a void into which they could step. When an ivory tusk, harvested in West Africa, made its way down through Watya, was carved by an artisan in Mzishima, then sold in Majachaiya to a Chinese merchant, the Cevirukkai had their hands in every single transaction. They had a few rivals, of course – the Tamils could claim a few joint-stock companies wealthier than them, and in the ancient city of Mahatitta in Sri Lanka (and in the newer, growing port of Vaddapura [OTL Colombo]) there were many banking houses who perhaps together could rival their splendor. But Cevirukkai stepped in at an integral moment in the history of history of the Chandratreya – seeing the dream of a united subcontinent as their opportunity to stop being a competitor among competitors and become the financial engine of a global empire. Between 1320 and 1340, Cevirukkai became the financier of the Chandratreya war effort, turning their enormous trade revenues into loans to the Chandratreya Empire.

Over the next fifty years, as the Chandratreya Empire tore itself apart at the seams, the real victors were the Cevirukkai. As taxes were raised across the board and mass conscription and corvee labor sucked the vitality out of the empire, the Cevirukkai always got their share. When the Chandratreya came to the verge of default, the aging Emperor Dharapatta began distributing special privileges and grants of land in an attempt to forestall ruin. On his deathbed in 1358, Dharapatta realized his son Somesvara would inherit little more than debt, but it was too late. By now, the Pala had themselves begun working with the Ayyavole and the Ainnurruvar merchant houses, both Tamil associations who feared the growing power of the Chandratreya to their north, and the escalating cycle of debt and warfare would not reach a breaking point for another thirty years (although only seven of those would be spent in open war and the remaining twenty would witness a period of brief anarchy as the Pala and Chandratreya dynasties both breathed their last). In 1364, Somesvara was forced to declare bankruptcy, an act which started the dramatic decline of the Cevirukkai, wrapping both his crown and the joint-stock company in a protracted legal negotiation. By the end of the century, the Cevirukkai would be one trading house among many, their title as the most powerful and wealthy merchant association and bank in the world stripped permanently.

This period of constant conflict would lead to a century of relative peace and prosperity, as the collapse of the last universal empires led to the reestablishment, this time permanently, of regional kingdoms and regional identities. The 14th century would see the stirrings of a distinct Kannadan identity (in no small part motivated by the relentless taxation of the Chandratreya) and the continuing development of Tamil culture (to be covered in a later post). The establishment of Gurjarat and the final independence of Utkala, Sindh and Kannauj would all mark the fracturing of India upon linguistic and cultural lines which, although embryonic, would continue to influence politics and culture for centuries to come. As for the mercantile associations, this truly was their heyday. Future rulers would monitor their growth and their power more carefully, establishing regulations and utilizing royal investment and patronage as a tool to ensure that such companies were instruments of government policy rather than autonomous actors. The degree to which said rulers would succeed ultimately varied.

However, even during this period of military conflict and chaos, economic and social development continued apace. Particularly on the coasts and in South India, the series of massive military conflicts were more opportunity than danger. Even along the Ganges, the conflict often had the paradoxical effect of spurring social change. Abandoned farmland and pasture could be acquired and cultivated by the victors in a more rationalized manner. Refugees who streamed into the cities often became permanent residents, and their dislocation from their ancestral lands made them a source of cheap labor for the growing forces of capital that were beginning to grip the continent. As the Chandratreya and Pala attempted to milk every last drop of tax revenue out of their subjects they inadvertently spurred rebellions among the peasant class and the murmurings of intellectual discontent among the lower rungs of the merchant and goshthi classes, for whom any unexpected burden could have the dangerous side effect of casting them back into the a life of unremarkable toil. And all the while, while the Deccan and the Doab burned, while Iranian fleets ravaged Saurashtra [OTL Kathiawar] and Gurjar cavalry looted Malwa, the South rose to ever greater heights of global wealth and prosperity.

The long and bloody 14th Century would belong to Sri Lanka and the Tamil.
 
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The long and bloody 14th Century would belong to Sri Lanka and the Tamil.

Heh, I'm sure Sri Lanka being half Tamil will in no way affect the "long and bloody" nature of this century.

A real shame about the Chandratreya. It's just such a bizarre and tragic thing that the company hoping to ride them to success instead contributed to their failure. Couldn't the Cevirukkai give a moratorium on the loan? Couldn't the Raja gather a coalition of more friendly bankers and say "We refuse to pay, and you'll get no support from any of your colleagues here?"

A Kannada identity is interesting, Tamilakam needs its buffer states. A loss for the Chandratreyas' successors, but those successors will still be counted on by the people of OTL Gujarat and Malwa to be a shield against the Iranians and Gurjaras. Seems they'll still have plenty clay to play around with.
 
A real shame about the Chandratreya. It's just such a bizarre and tragic thing that the company hoping to ride them to success instead contributed to their failure. Couldn't the Cevirukkai give a moratorium on the loan? Couldn't the Raja gather a coalition of more friendly bankers and say "We refuse to pay, and you'll get no support from any of your colleagues here?"

The Chandratreya were probably doomed regardless - getting a blank check to fund their dream of taking over the entire world one subcontinent at a time accelerated the process. I didn't do a great job of explaining it, I guess, but they had a lot more creditors than just one powerful banking company - a lot more. The Cevirukkai just led the way, keeping the Empire afloat during their equivalent of the thirty years war. When that empire collapsed, it was inevitably going to hurt. But Thana and the Cevirukkai are still obscenely rich and powerful, just not the first among equals.

And yeah, the Chandratreya successor dynasty will be just fine - slimmer and more manageable, you might say. At least the Chandratreya took the Pala out with them, right?

In any event, with the balance of power shifting, the old White Elephant Concordat is looking a bit dated.
 
In any event, with the balance of power shifting, the old White Elephant Concordat is looking a bit dated.

Decided to re-read the older posts on that and... woah, there's Indians securing basing rights in Haiti by selling guns to them with the cooperation of the Moroccans? I think it would be cool to have a post on how communications systems across several oceans work-- how messages are stored, how they are encrypted, how fast they can be carried and by whom. I guess this means there's Indians working as dragomans in some Masamidan office, but if they're handling messages from competing trade-guilds there needs to be protocols for keeping messages separate, and then more rules for which Berber ministers get to see what letters, and...
 
Some things might have moved too fast, so to some extent I'd like to pump the breaks a little bit. Not necessarily rewrite anything, but I worry that perhaps I should have made some of those initial interactions feel a bit more isolated.

Although I've been reading a lot about South Asian logistics and am amazed by some of the ideas they had - a salted mix of lemon, ginger and mango for vitamin C being one.
 
It's back!

And it's been so long I've sort of forgot what's happened, lol. Maybe time to give things a reread....

I might be down to put my cartography hat on again especially once we hear a bit more about post-Votive Europe. IIRC the fate of Eastern Europe hasn't been elaborated on much besides Poland being clobbered?

Love to see this continued, I was worried you'd lost interest...
 
I might be down to put my cartography hat on again especially once we hear a bit more about post-Votive Europe. IIRC the fate of Eastern Europe hasn't been elaborated on much besides Poland being clobbered?

There's also the detail that the German kings can't do much to fill this void, as the Rusichi clobbered the Poles to get to them and burn their fields. Bad times for anyone living north of the Alps and not wearing a Pope's hat, I guess.
 
If you ever go across the sea to Ireland...
Sit and Watch that Moonrise over Claddagh

A quick census of northern Europe would reveal almost no substantive demographic or population changes as a result of the discovery of North America.

There was no exponential growth yet - the slow rise of the batat, or earthapple as it became known in Old Anglisch was still a century off, after paranoia and superstition wore away. The development of heavier plows and the rise of red clover in Scandinavia was still centuries away. Nor was there any great diminishing – Skotland, Norway and Eireland sent their sons (and a few daughters) across the sea on voyages which would change the continent, but these were castaways and few in number besides. The growth of early settlements would depend on those same early settlers moving into a continent depopulated by disease, establishing fortified monasteries and castles as they went.

In Ireland, the patchwork fiefs and clans had begun to centralize under the Ua Ragniall, who still claimed the High Kingship at Tara and the Kingship of Mide even as those titles became more of an archaic tradition than a necessary fact. Dubhlind was rising to greater and greater prominence along the banks of the An Ruirthech (Liffey), and indeed the Kings of Ireland were able to draw tribute from nearly all the petty lords of the island. Their reign solidified in 1267, when they defeated the Ua Ashe Kings in Vetherfyord in battle and sacked the famously “unconquerable city.” Their triumphs over the Skots in the north in 1289 were able to finally reunite the island, at least notionally.

But the changes in Ireland had little to do with the Viking-cum-Irish dynasty who notionally ruled them. It was the people of the western coast who were becoming rich – sailing across the Atlantic to hunt cod off the coast of Newfoundland. The great fish markets of Dun Gaillimhe [Galway] prospered under the dominion of the Ua Conchobair Lord Cathal mac Aidh, whose power rivalled that of Royal Mide. In Mhumhain, the O Eidirsceoil had moved into Lumnagh [Limerick], displacing the Norse ruling families there and establishing a chartered trading port which paid into their pockets first and foremost.

Ireland was uniquely uneuropean in many regards. It lacked the great agricultural estates and centralized urban hubs that defined Christian civilization in the Middle Ages. It lacked castles and fortifications such as dotted the landscape of Germany and Italy. The Irish never involved themselves in the Votive Wars or even the mercenary trade that was so profitable for the Anglisch. Rather, almost from the beginning they looked West, across the sea. And if the Norse and Germans ruled North Solvia, it was the Irish who provided them with “boots on the ground” – opportunistic sailors and merchants who brought wealth into their nation while Skotland and Angland dissolved into feuding factions. As naval technology became more and more advanced, the Norse-Irish were some of the earliest adopters and innovators, and their legacy was a sprawling transatlantic civilization.

Our last look at the British Isles focused on the struggles of King Harald Ivarsson against Cymru in the twelfth century. Little changed here in the ensuing centuries. Anglisch traders and settlers sailed the seas and Anglisch sons went off to fight in the wars of western powers. Ivarsson’s heirs were largely weak and ineffectual, and so power was divested in the Earls. Early on, power was largely split between the council of Defon and York and Northumbria, but in 1239, with the ascension of Ivar the Fool, the Earls of Kent and Gloucester were able to leverage their influence through the King’s daughters, who they had married in the decade before Ivar’s ascension, to seize power, executing their rivals and embarking on a five year reign of terror before the intervention of a group of Frankish nobles set the kingdom to order again – but their short-lived intervention died the moment they sailed away.

In the end, it would be a native Saxon, Edvard Fairhair, the Earl of Mercia, who put an end to this squabbling and reasserted control over Angland. He elected not to sit in Winchester, instead sitting in his ancestral seat of Leicester. After his grandson, King Edmund Godwinsson the Old inherited Essex in 1301, the Crown ruled from alternately Leicester, Colchester, or London depending on the needs of state. Even still, Angland was never particularly centralized – future historians would describe it as a “Commonweal” – noting that its monarchy was elective and that hereditary succession often had a tendency to jump around members of the royal family based on the loyalties and friendships of particular Earls. In particular, the Earls of Brykstow remained a near autonomous power within the kingdom, holding as they did one of the realm's largest cities and its second-greatest port. Still, Edvardian Angland was relatively stable – until the end of the Votive Wars.

Post-Votive Angland, by contrast, was an armed camp. Thousands of returning mercenaries armies had been drilled and taught the ways of war, and these young men had little interest in taking up careers as farmers or small-scale artisans now that the fighting was over. A few would travel across the seas, but whether they served as settlers or sailors or bodyguards, there simply wasn’t the need for their services that there once had been. So many turned to brigandry and outlawry, and many others swelled the retainers of warlike Skottish clan chiefs…

Potato Wars

Throughout the Votive War, the ruling court of the Russian Hanate (Hanstvo) remained at the Summer Palace in Smolensk. Traditionally, the practice of the monarchy had been for the Han and his retinues to transit between palaces, visiting frontiers and the local Voivoda. It was a largely performative process – the procession of the capital as embodied in the sovereign, with the ritual exchanging of gifts and the Voivoda ceding his local residence to the royal procession as a sign of submission both serving to establish royal legitimacy and maintain the hierarchy of ruler and ruled. During the Votive War, however, Han Kresivies IV had been largely absent from the capital on campaign, and left the day to day administration of the crown to and his wife, Hatun Iesna and sons, Karmamil (later Karmamil III) and Vranimir.

Iesna had been fortunate – the daughter of Smolensk merchant magnate, she had known her husband for half a decade before their marriage and was well acquainted with and comfortable in the aristocratic high society of Smolensk and among the Druxhina who resided there. Blessed with the genuine love and trust of her husband, she was able to act in his name in the palace with relative impunity, freeing her to dispatch her sons to conduct business abroad – Vranimir in particular spent several years overseeing the city of Tangrabad on the Caspian Sea. The posting of a prince of royal blood in Tangrabad was a sign of the importance of keeping the crown’s Iranian-speaking subjects in line and maintaining the riverine trade routes that were so critical to the Hanstvo, and Vranimir excelled. His administrative talents may have been combined with a tendency to personal excess, but for the Russified Iranians of Tangrabad that was a sign that he was truly “one of them.”

The greater burden fell on Karmamil, whose posting in the West saw him engaged in nonstop travel, with none of the leisure and hedonism afforded to Vranimir. Starting in Lithuania, he oversaw the construction of a series of impressive defensive fortifications that were, frustratingly for the young and ambitious crown prince, never needed (over the entire course of the war, Lithuania was never attacked in great force). From there, he travelled on a whirlwind tour, stopping in Sarima (which the inhabitants still insistently called Osel) for negotiations both with the local Folkting. Next he travelled to Sweden, the traditional enemy of the Russian Hanstvo, where he was greeted coolly by the local King. The Christian rulers of Sweden eyed the Russian Baltic greedily. Osel in particular would be a prize, and there were still small communities of Christians living there who might serve as fourth columnists.[1]

Here, negotiations floundered, and Karmamil hurried on to Denmark. Here he achieved his lasting success of the war – convincing the Danish to side, not with their fellow Christian Kings, but rather to strike opportunistically into Germany. Denmark was able to strip Pomerania and northern Germany away from the Polish, restoring the authority of exiled German lords (conditional on oaths of fealty to the Danish Crown). This might have been seen as pure and selfish opportunism, but for the Danish decision to provision the Russian armies each time they crossed from the ruins of Poland over into Germany. As word of this decision leaked out to the German Names, they retaliated by attacking Danish protectorates whenever possible, contributing to the devastation.

Poland, for her part, effectively ceased to exist after the first few years of Russian involvement in the war. The flower of Polish chivalry died on the fields of Chmielnich and in the muddy banks of Vistula at the battle of Sandomierz. These heroic martyrs would become foundational to the myth of the modern Polish state, but for now they left Poland to serve as a great breadbasket for plundering Russian cavalry.

And then, out of nowhere arrived the batat, which the Polish called the ziemniak – the soil-apple. Traders in Danzig who had made the perilous journey across the new world had brought the edible tuber back with them, but it would be the Votive War that popularized the potato across Eastern Europe. It even spread to the Balkans, where Xasar agriculturalists utilized it for much the same reason as the Polish and Germans – it was much harder to destroy or capture a potato crop.

By 1315, as the war was dying down and even the Russians, whose capacity to replenish their arms and armies had once seemed inexhaustible, were finally ready to seek peace. But the true catalyst for Russian peace was the decision of the Moravians to become involved. An exiled Polish princess, Ludmila, married the Prince of Moravia in the spring of 1315, and shortly thereafter Moravia went to war for their new “ally.”

Moravia had avoided the Votive War almost entirely until now. They had fought when their borders were infringed upon, as sometimes happened. They had ostensibly offered supply and protection to Votive Armies – just enough to avoid sanction or threat. Nobody anticipated the complete aboutface of 1315. With Russian armies camped across Germany, they could ill-afford to be cut off in hostile territory. The Great Han beat a quick retreat across Eastern Europe, finally occupying the border fortifications that his son had constructed. Tallying the men that remained and the stores of powder and shot they had abandoned across Germany, the Han judged further fighting to be a mistake.

The Xasar were on their own. Although the Han was not so callous as to abandon his coreligionist allies, through backchannels he urged the Xasar to improve their position where they could and then make a negotiated exit from Italy. It is said that Kaikuluj Arslanzade fell into a lasting depression upon hearing the news – the exhausted Shah would rarely leave Konstantikert again. With the German armies once again massing to push into Pannonia, peace was signed in 1316.

The Hanstvo won some minor gains on the Polish frontier – particularly targeting depopulated regions where they hoped the population was too exhausted and broken to pose a threat – but ultimately they had almost nothing to show for their years of military support. When the King of Moravia died two years later, his son would crown himself King of Moravia-Poland, much to the impotent anger of the exiled King of Poland. Crowns in the post-Votive era were easily made and easily destroyed. The new Danish-backed Dukes of Pomerania were a prime example of that. And within twenty years, the King of Moravia-Poland would crown himself Emperor at a grand ceremony in Olmutz. The Czechs, Slovaks, Poles and Germans would be united under a single crown.

In a generation, Eastern Europe had undone the post-Flowering Flesh population boom almost overnight, leaving ruined towns and fallow fields everywhere. It stood to reason that the only victors would be those who didn’t fight.

[1] The Swedish actually launched naval raids aimed at Osel twice during the Votive War. Although scoring some naval successes, these raiders were fought off by the local militias without any significant rebellions or defections. The Christian communities, although notable, were insular compared to the majority Buddhist population and frequently consisted of a cluster of farming villages supporting small monastic communities.



Next up, we’ll be discussing Iceland, the Vinlandic League, Norway, (Coastal) West Africa, Cape Watya and East Africa, in an uncertain order. I've been trying to meticulously research both my own history and real history in order to avoid presenting anything incorrectly. West Africa in particular is proving tricky, as I don't want to push things towards unrealistically rapid development and I want to make sure I do justice to the region.

Stay tuned!
 
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Potatoes in Europe some 400 years early.. These folks could be on the Moon by 1800!

Oh god, don't remind me - nervousness about how I would cover the modern White Huns timeline is one of the things that stalled this project out in the first place.


:p

I've got the rough outlines, of course - a patchwork of nation-states and supernational unions in India, a massive political and economic division between "Northern Europe" and "Papal Europe" - the Republic of China as a global superpower, with at least one state in Solvia as a rising power. A lot of notes on alternate technological and social developments. But putting it together is a big question.
 
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What realm are the Moravians claiming to be "Emperors" of? Is this a "national" state (some kind of new German Empire? I assume the Moravians are the foremost German kings remaining) or a multinational monarchy defined by its dynasty like the Habsburgs?

the Republic of China as a global superpower, with at least one state in Solvia as a rising power

I smell a trade war.

Interested to see how republicanism takes root in China-- will it be inspired by Indian treatises, or Hellenic, or local thought?
 
What realm are the Moravians claiming to be "Emperors" of? Is this a "national" state (some kind of new German Empire? I assume the Moravians are the foremost German kings remaining) or a multinational monarchy defined by its dynasty like the Habsburgs?

More the last option - but the Imperial title is vacant and unlike the dynasties of Europe, Moravia doesn't ask "how high?" when the Pope says "jump."

I smell a trade war.

Interested to see how republicanism takes root in China-- will it be inspired by Indian treatises, or Hellenic, or local thought?

A lot is going to change between now and then.
 
some thing tells me that angland is going to balkanized and have a bandit problem that's going to go bad.
 
Question: aside of the 'potatoes' or, as it's called TTL, 'soil-apple'... other crops as crops as e.g. Maize/Corn (that ,IIRC, in OTL US territory, there was maize agriculture) would be brought to Europe?
Also, while the 'overabundance' of Englishman mercenaries if wouldn't be possible that would be found, for mostly of them, someplace, attractive enough, away from England then would be probably to further aggravate near hopelessly the political instability...
 
And within twenty years, the King of Moravia-Poland would crown himself Emperor at a grand ceremony in Olmutz. The Czechs, Slovaks, Poles and Germans would be united under a single crown.
Also, rather interesting that will born out a new great Power in Europe... Seems that the creation of this kingdom, that will reunite dynastically Central and Eastern Europe (with the union of the Czechs, Slovaks, Poles and Germans) under the same Crown, from Moravia...Could be, if unified/'centralized' enough a development that if well certainly, perhaps not at short-term but if it's stable enough (for these age standards, at least) then surely that will could have deeply strategic consequences for Europe...
 
It's back!

And it's been so long I've sort of forgot what's happened, lol. Maybe time to give things a reread....

I might be down to put my cartography hat on again especially once we hear a bit more about post-Votive Europe. IIRC the fate of Eastern Europe hasn't been elaborated on much besides Poland being clobbered?

Love to see this continued, I was worried you'd lost interest...

I hope this latest post explains a little more (and hopefully doesn't contradict anything I implied previously).

Your fear was justified, but I think it was more that I needed to take a break and get in the right mindset. It would be hard to fully abandon this world.

I really enjoyed both your maps and your contributions. You (and a few other persons who I haven't forgotten!) made invaluable contributions to making this world, especially the new world, feel fleshed out. Much appreciated.

some thing tells me that angland is going to balkanized and have a bandit problem that's going to go bad.
\

Balkanized feels wrong - in England proper, there's an Anglo-Saxon identity that's dominant on the ground level, a Anglo-Nordic identity at the elite level, and then there's the Welsh and the Scottish. The Welsh (or Vaelisch as they'd be called in this timeline) have no ability to threaten the English and the Scots and Norse-Scots are equally fractured. No-one inside or out wants to carve up the whole thing into its own polities. The Earls in England and the Clans in Scotland and Ireland just want autonomy.

Question: aside of the 'potatoes' or, as it's called TTL, 'soil-apple'... other crops as crops as e.g. Maize/Corn (that ,IIRC, in OTL US territory, there was maize agriculture) would be brought to Europe?
Also, while the 'overabundance' of Englishman mercenaries if wouldn't be possible that would be found, for mostly of them, someplace, attractive enough, away from England then would be probably to further aggravate near hopelessly the political instability...

Without the context of a different world, "soil apple" sounds pretty gross, eh?

Other crops are starting to get footholds as well. Mesoamerican crops arrived and were cultivated in Europe within a few generations of the initial contact, but mostly did so... quietly, for lack of a better word, and mass cultivation would take a few generations more. Early European thinkers and the wealthy classes would find fruits such as the tomato and potato to be unhealthy and dangerous (much as I've heard certain parts of Europe thought onions and garlic were unhealthy at various times), but peasants would cultivate them nonetheless. Same goes with Maize. It will be some time before mass cultivation begins, and prejudices, especially at the elite level will last for a while, but they will spread, much as OTL.

Likewise, the Serer peoples have brought a lot of their own agricultural package to Africa, thus spreading, inter alia, sorghum and wheat and rice, as well as cattle and horses. The Fulani who came to Solvia have what they view as an 'aristocratic' prejudice against agriculture, but they're more than happy to exploit its benefits and eat its produce. In Middle Solvia, the newcomers have largely set themselves up as lords and kings and try to avoid physical labor when possible. By contrast the isolated settlements on the plains of South Solvia are much more pastoral.
 
Also, rather interesting that will born out a new great Power in Europe... Seems that the creation of this kingdom, that will reunite dynastically Central and Eastern Europe (with the union of the Czechs, Slovaks, Poles and Germans) under the same Crown, from Moravia...Could be, if unified/'centralized' enough a development that if well certainly, perhaps not at short-term but if it's stable enough (for these age standards, at least) then surely that will could have deeply strategic consequences for Europe...

Just to be clear, a union of Germans doesn't mean a union of "Germany" with central Europe. There are thousands and thousands of Germans living in Moravia and Poland alike OTL. The Moravian aristocracy take on German and Frankish styles as well (they're what we would call "Czech" OTL, although after centuries of Moravia, they don't identify as such, by and large).

The Moravian Imperium and the Landstag will not be friends. Not at all. ;)


Also, I edited the main post to include a mention of TTL's Bristol, which is one of the main ports of England.

Edit 2: @Ahigin and @Hobelhouse - I've been re-reading all your commentary on the new world and my own posts. I think we're going back there next.
 
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Balkanized feels wrong - in England proper, there's an Anglo-Saxon identity that's dominant on the ground level, a Anglo-Nordic identity at the elite level, and then there's the Welsh and the Scottish. The Welsh (or Vaelisch as they'd be called in this timeline) have no ability to threaten the English and the Scots and Norse-Scots are equally fractured. No-one inside or out wants to carve up the whole thing into its own polities. The Earls in England and the Clans in Scotland and Ireland just want autonomy.
Not sure Anglo-Saxon identity will become a solid foundation. The fact is that historically the Anglo-Saxons were as prone to internecine wars as the Celts. Actually, one can speak of a single statehood only after the Norman conquest.
 
Not sure Anglo-Saxon identity will become a solid foundation. The fact is that historically the Anglo-Saxons were as prone to internecine wars as the Celts. Actually, one can speak of a single statehood only after the Norman conquest.

Ah yeah, I just mean it's not gonna splinter on ethnic lines. I could definitely see a "warring states" type period down the line - we'll see.
 
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