Surprised Tukh didn't try to make a public spectacle of their deaths (even in the form of a show trial). After all, he carries out show trials of the people in Komi IIRC with everyone aside from Bukharina being found guilty and put to death.
The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II
- Thread starter SirHalifax
- Start date
This is why Tukh is cursed as fuck. That and other stuff mainly his path in TRO but also all the horrible stuff he does in TNO.
DontBrawlWithSaul
Banned
Tukhy’s Russia is basically a pair of marching boots crushing the opposition of Russia ignominiously: wether that be monarchists, revisionists , etc. They’re tiny ants on the road to communism fulfilled, which is why he gives the royals the treatment they get (I think): would you give a bug in your way a special trial? No, you’d squash it and move on.
OTOH, Tukh gives the leaders of Komi, as said before, show trials before their executions, but let's agree to disagree on that.
DontBrawlWithSaul
Banned
Yeah that confused me as well but I chalked it up to inconsistency. Either that, or maybe Tukh considers Komi something of great importance to solidify control over.
Tukh isn't completely insane thankfully. He's unreasonable in his fanaticism certainly, but he can also be pragmatic. For example, the Komi trials are completely rigged, but he spare Bukharina, though it's obvious this isn't out of mercy, and purely out of a recognition that she would provide more good PR if she was alive. Of course, Tukh is also willing to go to direct war with Germany, so he's in sort of like a Yazov-lite in a way. Unreasonable with his race to reunify Russia and march to Germania, but more in touch with reason and reality than some of the others. Course, that's just my opinion. He's certainly immoral and bad for the well-being of the Russian peoples, but there could be worse people in charge.
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He blames Suslov for being the primary reason they lost the WRW in the fifties. Him and all the civilian politicians who “betrayed” the union.
It isn’t just to solidify power; it’s to put a feather in his cap as he gets back at the people he blames for the losses.
(also hey I wrote that trial event nice)
Ladies and gentlemen, let me bring some info about a Yockey discussion that had been happening on the long distant world of 2020 reddit
Everything began when this youtuber made a video on Yockey, where he make some questionary comments like calling a holocaust denier as a "revisionist"
Last year someone posted a article in TNO reddit about Yockey, talking about his personality and stuff, he even proceeded to make a Yockey translator later
Thus I took the video, sent him and asked what he thinks about it, here is the answer
"
Okay having seen it I've got many thoughts, but to simply answer the question of "should I trust this video as a source of information on Yockey?" I'd say the simple answer is: No.
The reasoning is that this guy doesn't directly lie, but he does leave a lot of things to omission to create the story of Yockey's life that he wants. The big problem is his conclusion of the man as a "selfless" member of the right who gets smeared because, supposedly "the media" or whoever labels everyone on the right as a fascist. This "most people just label any slightly right-wing person fascist" myth among the far right and the people that fall for their victim narrative is really not true for the most part. It also totally ignores the blatant Anti-Semitism, which this guy doesn't even deny but does try and gloss over, Hitler-stanning, and Holocaust denial in Yockey's Imperium. Also his "selfless cause" was revitalizing fascism in Europe. I don't know how someone can say he was an Oswald Moseley stan but also not clearly see him as a fascist. It's also funny to me the guy calls Yockey the "last" Spenglerian when to this day every pedant on the far right loves citing Spengler like his works are not so much historical theory as scientific fact (which, lol no.) That bit trying to paint the direction that Yockey's trial was headed in (i.e. towards conviction. I may be wrong on this point but an insanity conviction would seem unlikely to me. And certainly not acquittal) as largely due to an ADL smear campaign is ridiculous and an Antisemetic dogwhistle. Yockey was on his way to a criminal conviction because he participated in seditious terrorism against the governments of the US and several Western European countries and the evidence was clear and incontrovertible. And boo hoo he committed suicide to save his fash friends. I have no sympathy for how Yockey died, and anyone who does is suspect. If I had my hands on him, I'd use the Chair Leg of Truth to get him to name names. To say nothing of the far-right memes this guy peppers into his video's visuals, with the occasional more silly jokes at the guys he still clearly (and wrongly) respects, but can poke a bit of fun of to give the fig leaf that he doesn't actually support fascist and other far-right figures and movements.
As a side note, I see this guy made a video about the recent doxxing of the TNO Devs and does the annoying nonsense of trying to compare TNO to Fallout: The Frontier, but also tries to argue that TNO's devs handled the situation worse than The Frontier's devs, which is flat bullshit. One of these groups still has an active team with a constant influx of new members, and even among the vast majority of the smaller fraction of people who've left the team, most remain proud of their work on the mod and defend the mod and the dev team. The other is a skeleton of its former self, with most of the original team quitting within two months of the initial launch, and most of the former devs having been deeply ashamed of and disavowing their work on the project. And the later of the two isn't TNO.
It's clear that (while Fallout: The Frontier was garbage and The Frontier Devs were shitheads that unnecessarily poked the bear of the internet culture wars for presuming EVERYONE that thought an option to join the Enclave would be cool were all just people that wanted a fascist power fantasy) this guy's issues with both mods are due to his far right politics, not with actual mod quality or realistic portrayal of a person. Sure, there's some artistic license to a lot of figures in TNO, but TNO Yockey is not near as much of a diversion from the real man as Yazov, Kosygin, Stalina, Thatcher, Bukharina, Alexander Men, or even Motsny, so I really don't see the indignation over him specifically. Not everything this guy says is wrong, and some things may be true that I hadn't learned about from my scant biographical knowledge of Yockey, but everything in this video should be taken with a shrimp boat-sized grain of salt, at best, and more likely just ignored because better biographies can probably be found elsewhere. I was recommended "Dream of the Day" and I can't 100% confirm it yet, but it looks like a fairly trustworthy biography. I'd recommend that over this guy's videos."
Last year someone posted a article in TNO reddit about Yockey, talking about his personality and stuff, he even proceeded to make a Yockey translator later
Thus I took the video, sent him and asked what he thinks about it, here is the answer
"
Okay having seen it I've got many thoughts, but to simply answer the question of "should I trust this video as a source of information on Yockey?" I'd say the simple answer is: No.
The reasoning is that this guy doesn't directly lie, but he does leave a lot of things to omission to create the story of Yockey's life that he wants. The big problem is his conclusion of the man as a "selfless" member of the right who gets smeared because, supposedly "the media" or whoever labels everyone on the right as a fascist. This "most people just label any slightly right-wing person fascist" myth among the far right and the people that fall for their victim narrative is really not true for the most part. It also totally ignores the blatant Anti-Semitism, which this guy doesn't even deny but does try and gloss over, Hitler-stanning, and Holocaust denial in Yockey's Imperium. Also his "selfless cause" was revitalizing fascism in Europe. I don't know how someone can say he was an Oswald Moseley stan but also not clearly see him as a fascist. It's also funny to me the guy calls Yockey the "last" Spenglerian when to this day every pedant on the far right loves citing Spengler like his works are not so much historical theory as scientific fact (which, lol no.) That bit trying to paint the direction that Yockey's trial was headed in (i.e. towards conviction. I may be wrong on this point but an insanity conviction would seem unlikely to me. And certainly not acquittal) as largely due to an ADL smear campaign is ridiculous and an Antisemetic dogwhistle. Yockey was on his way to a criminal conviction because he participated in seditious terrorism against the governments of the US and several Western European countries and the evidence was clear and incontrovertible. And boo hoo he committed suicide to save his fash friends. I have no sympathy for how Yockey died, and anyone who does is suspect. If I had my hands on him, I'd use the Chair Leg of Truth to get him to name names. To say nothing of the far-right memes this guy peppers into his video's visuals, with the occasional more silly jokes at the guys he still clearly (and wrongly) respects, but can poke a bit of fun of to give the fig leaf that he doesn't actually support fascist and other far-right figures and movements.
As a side note, I see this guy made a video about the recent doxxing of the TNO Devs and does the annoying nonsense of trying to compare TNO to Fallout: The Frontier, but also tries to argue that TNO's devs handled the situation worse than The Frontier's devs, which is flat bullshit. One of these groups still has an active team with a constant influx of new members, and even among the vast majority of the smaller fraction of people who've left the team, most remain proud of their work on the mod and defend the mod and the dev team. The other is a skeleton of its former self, with most of the original team quitting within two months of the initial launch, and most of the former devs having been deeply ashamed of and disavowing their work on the project. And the later of the two isn't TNO.
It's clear that (while Fallout: The Frontier was garbage and The Frontier Devs were shitheads that unnecessarily poked the bear of the internet culture wars for presuming EVERYONE that thought an option to join the Enclave would be cool were all just people that wanted a fascist power fantasy) this guy's issues with both mods are due to his far right politics, not with actual mod quality or realistic portrayal of a person. Sure, there's some artistic license to a lot of figures in TNO, but TNO Yockey is not near as much of a diversion from the real man as Yazov, Kosygin, Stalina, Thatcher, Bukharina, Alexander Men, or even Motsny, so I really don't see the indignation over him specifically. Not everything this guy says is wrong, and some things may be true that I hadn't learned about from my scant biographical knowledge of Yockey, but everything in this video should be taken with a shrimp boat-sized grain of salt, at best, and more likely just ignored because better biographies can probably be found elsewhere. I was recommended "Dream of the Day" and I can't 100% confirm it yet, but it looks like a fairly trustworthy biography. I'd recommend that over this guy's videos."
Somewhat unrelated but this is a cool flag for an anti-German but natsoc France(let's say internal coup against Sidos by anti-german natsocs):
So on a similar note, Kaya's brief hold onto power+Crommelin's characterization+Rodzheavsky and to a lesser extent Serov's route makes me wonder. How would other hypothetically anti-german Nazi-adjunent groups(or natsoc-ish groups that don't have an opinion on germany) in the unity pakt or elsewhere function in this mod? Would they even call themselves "national socialists"?
Might be something for @Kingfish Chris to anwser
So on a similar note, Kaya's brief hold onto power+Crommelin's characterization+Rodzheavsky and to a lesser extent Serov's route makes me wonder. How would other hypothetically anti-german Nazi-adjunent groups(or natsoc-ish groups that don't have an opinion on germany) in the unity pakt or elsewhere function in this mod? Would they even call themselves "national socialists"?
Might be something for @Kingfish Chris to anwser
These groups are labeled NatSoc simply due to the similarity of their policies to the Nazi Regime.
These groups aren't NatSoc, but they are within that category due to their policies being similar to Nazi Regime.
- Kaya is a NatSoc due to his Reform Bureaucrats policy seeking to copy a National socialist system, while they desire to make their government and economy like Germany, they lack their racism. But their policies nonetheless make them have a NatSoc label.
- Rodzaevsky Fascists are similar to Nazi Germany, and it's self-explanatory really due to their copy of Nazi symbolism, their policies on slavery and economics, as well their rabid antisemitism. Really they are Russian Nazis holding an admiration of the Germans and Hitler, albeit they ignore their apparent Anti-Slavic sentiments. This isn't until later they turn on Germany, adopting a Slavic National Socialism.
- For the case of Serov, he is labeled a NatSoc due to his views of Race and his ideas of a Racial Hierarchy being similar to the Nazi Regime, unlike your basic Fascist Regime who doesn't have an official view of a racial hierarchy. (Shaferavich for example, despite all of his bigotry and his Russophilic views, simply segregates or aggressively assimilates them, whereas Serov does worse to minorities.) His ideology is essentially National Socialism. Really Ordosocialism is Hardline Autocratic Nationalism with National Socialist Characteristics and Marxist Socialist aesthetics.
- Crommelin meanwhile is a White Supremacist whose Nationalistic, Militarist and hardcore Racist views make him a NatSoc. That and in OTL Crommelin was affiliated with the National States Right Party (A Southern Neo-Nazi Party) who are notorious for Black Church bombings.
Fascists on the other hand, while they hold similar views to the NatSoc, they aren't on their level in terms of racial views and treatment of different people (Often ranging from segregation to assimilation or integration)
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I would add socialist economics too. His economic tree even has a five year plan.
brooklyn99
Banned
Yeah. Just to reiterate what I said in the last thread, I really think that Serov ought to be reclassified as AuthSoc (or in the new ideologies; certainly Communist/Socialist). Considering that Suslov is willing to temporarily tolerate "revisionist" tendencies like Bukharina's relative Libertarianism and Zhdanov's Ultravisionary wackiness within the party, I don't think it make sense for Suslov to kick out Serov so early into the game but rather- as he does, bide his time until Communist-Komi unites West Russia where he is in a more comforting position to start purging deviationists and make his Othrodoxy supreme. Besides, considering that Suslov OTL had no qualms about presiding over the mass deportations of Baltic and Caucasian ethnic groups, I don't believe he would feel anymore disgusted by Ordosocialism than he would of Libertarian Bukharinism and Ultravisionarism for him to expel Serov from the party ASAP. Serov provides useful muscle for the KKP while their still wrestling for dominance over Komi, if nothing else.
I don't think it makes sense for him to join the Passionaries at least because that if here were to ascend to power in the coup roulette, he follows down the Ust-Sysolsk tree which is ill fitting for him considering that said tree includes options that would be uncharacteristic of a devoted Socialist like him such as allying with the Vyatka Tsarists against the WRRF. Yet he does seem to hold some regard for the WRRF since if he were to escape Komi he actually flees towards Tukhachevsky's turf and is actually the only Komi leader to escape to the WRRF whilst the other KKP big wigs flee to Vologda, I believe.
Which has me thinking that since Tukhachevsky himself also persecutes minorities, like with the ethnic cleansing of Karelians and Tatars, it makes me think that there is potential for an interesting switch-up. Considering that if the KKP seized control of Komi, they have the ability to unite with Zhukov-WRRF through negotiation whilst Tukhachevsky will always invade them. I think it'll be interesting to have Serov be the exception where his own personally led Komi SSR (or maybe Ust-Sysolsk SSR?) that he gains control over via the Ordosocialist coup during the power struggle, is actually able to negotiate unification with Tukha-WRRF over what they both have in common, like heavy chauvinistic nationalism and heavy militarism, whilst Zhukov himself finds Serov to be repugnant and refuses to peacefully unite with him.
Additionally, in the 2nd Winter War, if OrdSoc West Russia achieves a full victory, it should be the Fascists that coup the Finnish government and not the Communists since these groups come to power on the back of revanchist sentiment against the Russian unifier with a diametrically opposed ideology (i.e. Fascist Samara conquering the whole of Karelia inspires a backlash in Finland against the failed government, which sweeps the Communists into power whilst the WRRF doing the same results in the same except for the Fascists), I don't think that the Finnish themselves nor the world at large would perceive Serov to be a conventional Nazi nor a Reactionary but just as the Socialist that Serov portrays himself as.
Valisevsky IS Yagoda.
"Gukpa, what are you smoking?"
Sugar cane from the CSS team, and it is delicious.