Eh, I did say arguably. In terms of death and suffering the Nuclear War ending wins hands down, but at least has several post-apocalyptic events showing that the Nazi ideology is cast aside and forgotten. In terms of more insidious horror the Dengist Speer path is the most horrifying, as it means that the Nazi system continues in a less self-destructive manner.
The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II
- Thread starter SirHalifax
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chankljp
Donor
Or.... You know, it is easy to look at things from this type of detachment when you are not the one 'picking up the bill' so to speak. Sort of like the people that are retroactively rehabilitating the legacy of the Mongol Empire and all of their mass killings by saying that they helped 'clear away the dead wood of history' by destroying the stagnant regimes that existed in East Asia and the Middle East at the time, and massively promoted international trade via the Silk Road.... While ignoring say... The sacking of Baghdad as an acceptable price.
Relating back to TNO, over on the very first 'wholesome LibSoc Sablin' AAR that I have read over on another forum back when the mod was first released: I remember there being this Russian user who genuinely argued passionately that he considers Yockey to be the outcome that America 'deserves', and will be best for humanity in the long run... Saying that the United States, by not only being a nation founded upon genocide and slavey, but continues to be the same polity that committed all those crimes (Unlike Russia, mind you. Since the Russian Empire, Soviet Union, and the Russian Federation all being different polities, hence cannot be held accountable for the crimes of their predecessors), means that the country is incapable of doing anything good on a fundamental level unless it was destroyed. With him saying that ever other POTUS from LBJ to Harrington to pro-Republican Bennett to Glenn to RFK were all automatically guilty of prolonging the existence of this irredeemably evil regime via their reforms.
In retrospect, now that more TNO content have been released, I would almost want to track down both that AAR and that Russian user, and honestly ask him (Even as someone like me who is not an American) how he would feel about say... A Polish person, a Ukrainian, someone from the Baltics, or a Chechen making the same argument about how they consider Taboritsky to be the best outcome that Russia 'deserves' as punishment for their history of imperialism and subjugation.
It's a twisted form of Marxist historical determinism, but I've also seen strong leftist pushback against the nuclear war idea because it believes that sweeping social change can't happen and the world must start off on a blank slate, in spite of the humanism encouraged by Marx in his lighter side.
So, it's more of a demented nihilism that probably comes from a sizable amount of the TNO fanbase being teenagers. Aka, the usual stuff that Nietzsche would disapprove of.
Every artist knows that a blank canvas is the worst obstacle, not the best result.
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That's a fair point, I suppose I shouldn't worry about the opinions of some online weirdos too much.
I did just watch Threads for the first time pretty recently, so I guess it especially rubs me the wrong way to see people treating nuclear war as anything but the absolute worst outcome possible.
But this is my point though, it's kind of messed up to be like "yeah billions of people died horribly but at least Nazi ideology is gone."
Don't get me wrong, I think TNO is a very fun HOI4 mod, but as a form of literature I think it's pretty questionable. The rather optimistic tone towards a post-nuclear war world is definitely one of the biggest issues, in my opinion.
Yeah but you know what else is forgotten in the nuclear war ending? Everything else, on account of most of humanity being dead.
And mankind rebuilds to the point that there are spaceflights again.
Sorry, just feeling a bit personally attacked for stating an opinion on a game and then being lumped in with “nihilistic teenagers”. I think I need a break from this thread.
If you're taking people responding to your opinion with their own opinions as a personal attack, then a break would probably be good.
My best friend in the forum, the long gone Stenz once told me that sometimes you need to simply roll your eyes and think "Ah yes, one more of those"
In defense of the writing, it's implied that the landing occurs millenia after the war.
Wasn't Budyonny like the most incopetent of all Soviet Generals? How did he survive?
He didn't in the cannon, this video is a meme
In the cannon TNO he got killed by anarchists
Yeah I noticed now with the Savinkov part as a Partisan.
So the guy spent an insane amounth of time to make a video meme and portraits and everything?
chankljp
Donor
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AfterActionReport
Basically, someone making their playthough of a game into an in-universe story narrative/TL.
brooklyn99
Banned
That's pretty much how it is with much of these custom superevent videos on YouTube.
chankljp
Donor
A little something that I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on...
According to this post from the lead coding dev and writer for Germany, in the future reworks, two major changes will happen:
It is the second point that I am really curious about... Right now, Germany collapsing into civil war for at least a few months to a year after the death of Hitler is THE 'inciting incident' kicking off the plot of TNO the same way that the Black Monday stock market crash does for the plot of Kaiserreich. Since it would be the final straw to show the world that Germany's plot armor protection has wore off, kicking off everything from HMMLR launching the English Civil War, to the Luftwaffe terror bombing over Russia west of the Urals and West Africa stopping, to the African RKs launching the South African war out of desperation, etc, etc.
From my understanding, instead of a full-scale civil war, the death of Hitler would now merely result in more or less 'The Death of Stalin: ULTRA-EXTREME EDITION!!!" levels of political intrigue, infighting, and internal power struggle until one of the contenders manage to outmanoeuvre and purge everyone else... But it would just not be the same as a full Civil War.
While removing the GCW does make sense from a lore and story perspective (Germany should not be able to get out of a civil war, and jump right back to being a superpower within a matter of years)... I have to wonder how much more will the lore have to change it order to fit Germany's new situation.
According to this post from the lead coding dev and writer for Germany, in the future reworks, two major changes will happen:
(1) The entire 'Nazism is doomed to fail' thing is getting scraped entirely. Both due to gameplay and story reasons.
(2) The same goes the the German Civil War, with the long-term plan being for the conflict to be cut out as well
It is the second point that I am really curious about... Right now, Germany collapsing into civil war for at least a few months to a year after the death of Hitler is THE 'inciting incident' kicking off the plot of TNO the same way that the Black Monday stock market crash does for the plot of Kaiserreich. Since it would be the final straw to show the world that Germany's plot armor protection has wore off, kicking off everything from HMMLR launching the English Civil War, to the Luftwaffe terror bombing over Russia west of the Urals and West Africa stopping, to the African RKs launching the South African war out of desperation, etc, etc.
From my understanding, instead of a full-scale civil war, the death of Hitler would now merely result in more or less 'The Death of Stalin: ULTRA-EXTREME EDITION!!!" levels of political intrigue, infighting, and internal power struggle until one of the contenders manage to outmanoeuvre and purge everyone else... But it would just not be the same as a full Civil War.
While removing the GCW does make sense from a lore and story perspective (Germany should not be able to get out of a civil war, and jump right back to being a superpower within a matter of years)... I have to wonder how much more will the lore have to change it order to fit Germany's new situation.
Honestly, what would be interesting would be paths for Germany if neither of the four win out the power struggle with Oberlander being the Fuhrer as the leader of some oligarchy of party leaders or something like that if neither of the "Big Four" successfully consolidate power.