The New Order: Last Days of Europe - An Axis Victory Cold War Mod for HoIIV

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4. The US of TNO is anti-right wing the way the OTL one was anti- left. If it sets up local strongman they should be left wing dictators or socialist resistance.
That is a fat misconception,the US in TNO still had a red scare,do not confound more tolerance for left regimes with liking them.

Of course they are. Inserting a pro-U.S. dictator might be beneficial in the short run, but in the long run it erodes any claim to moral superiority and repels potential allies and partners aside from useless weak dictators.
A proper democratic system would say to the Americans to fuck themselves after thanking for the military help,why is that so hard to grasp this?
US interest>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Africa

More to the point, who is Panzer to decide what the player thinks U.S. interests are? Maybe I don't think that U.S. goals are best served by setting up expansive mandates or creating a colonial regime in Africa.
Then play vanilla or Kaiserreich and make your own sandbox choices,because TNO was and is a story based mod.
 
With the exception of Hutting the transition from RK to Mandate will not improve anything,the guerrillas will still be guerrillas and the US will also crush and burn all the politicking made by Muller and Schenck while working with the local elites(SS,Whites,collaborators) to entrench pro-US influence.
Also an Angola not under US debt is a useless Angola if you want the straight answer,the Americans also have the perfect excuse with them being supported by Schneck.
Yes but that this is how the postwar mandates will be governed would not be clear at the time. Until the Nazis are beaten it makes no sense for the US and the rebels to not work together against a common foe.
 

chankljp

Donor
Edit. Saw the mention of Angola....there's a major difference between a US that will not support or work with Angola (which feels like mustache twirling reading of US foreign policy during the cold war but ok, still plausible) and a US that INVADES and conquer and anti-Nazi resistance movement so it can set up a colonial government.

Exactly. If the devs want Schenck's dream of a free Angola to fail no matter what and to make the Americans as amoral as possible, they could have had OFN simply not offering any help to the Angolans, let them be effectively meat-shields that take the bulk of casualties while allowing the Americans and South Africans to focus their forces elsewhere. And during the peace negotiations, as part of the ceasefire, throw the Angolans under the bus, by recognizing them as still being part of the Schild, allowing them to be slaughtered by Hutting because the US don't want to waste resources nation building.

The idea of OFN just declaring war to destroy a native anti-Nazi resistance movement that they themselves have most likely funded while the fighting against the Nazis is still on-going is just too over the top villainy for me to accept.
 

chankljp

Donor
Then play vanilla or Kaiserreich and make your own sandbox choices,because TNO was and is a story based mod.

Look... I will be the first person to defend TNO as a story based, narrative focused mod, and not a map painting simulator, but this line of reasoning when responding to someone voicing their objections to the way that things are currently presented in the mod's portrayal of how OFN handles Africa is just completely unreasonable and forgive me for saying so, downright absurd.

By this line of logic, you can say that any contenders during the German Civil War besides Bormann should be a player trap that will automatically be doomed to fail with crippling debuffs, because he was the canonic winner of the conflict. You don't like this and thinks that it wasted the interesting story telling potential that a victorious Speer or Goring could have had? Then play vanilla or Kaiserreich and make your own sandbox choices,because TNO was and is a story based mod.

The same goes for the Russian warlords, with Zhukov's WRRF being the only path that is not doomed to failure. What? You want to play as Sablin/Tomsk/Vyatka/Sverdlovsk, and thinks that they too could have a realistic chance of successfully reunifying Russia? What do you think TNO is? A map painting wish fulfilment simulator? So back to playing Kaiserreich! TNO is here to tell a story that the devs have in mind! :p

We are not questioning TNO being a narrative focused mod that is trying to tell a story. Instead, we are questioning one of the elements within the setting of the story feeling ham-fisted, forced, and not making sense.
 
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The same goes for the Russian warlords, with Zhukov's WRRF being the only path that is not doomed to failure. What? You want to play as Sablin/Tomsk/Vyatka/Sverdlovsk, and thinks that they too could have a realistic change of successfully reunifying Russia? What do you think TNO is? A map painting wish fulfilment simulator? So back to playing Kaiserreich! TNO is here to tell a story that the devs have in mind! :p
As a Sverdlovsk fanboy, this made chuckle a little.
 
A proper democratic system would say to the Americans to fuck themselves after thanking for the military help,why is that so hard to grasp this?
It is hard to grasp because it isn't actually true, or at least not obviously true. Why would African nations automatically and "obviously" tell the United States to "go fuck itself" after it liberates them from Nazi control when the Nazis (and Japanese) are still around, their economies are devastated from decades of Nazi colonial exploitation, and the United States is by far the largest and most powerful force that can assist them with both problems? It would make much more sense for them to initially be friendly but for tensions to then grow because the United States meddles in their domestic affairs (for both good and bad reasons), tries to promote American trade over their local businesses, and otherwise doesn't treat them with the status that they feel themselves to have earned. You know, like actual democratic allies to the United States in the real world.

Besides, even if they did tell the United States to go fuck itself it's not at all clear that this would actually hurt "U.S. interests" if you have the presence of mind to not assume that whatever is good for General Motors is good for America, i.e. you're not a Dulles brother. After all, that is exactly the outcome of the "best" option of getting the pro-OFN ceasefire and allowing the Nazis to collapse under their own weight--the Nazis lose the resources and territory of Africa to a bunch of decidedly anti-Nazi states, without the United States having to invest any resources beyond winning the war in the first place. And that was the point of intervening to begin with (that and maintaining a friendly South Africa to control the Cape).

Then play vanilla or Kaiserreich and make your own sandbox choices,because TNO was and is a story based mod.
I pointed out in my post examples in TNO where the player is given more agency and ability to shape the nature of the story how they want. Why is this hard for you to grasp? In most areas, TNO actually doesn't give you one option that you, the player, have to take, but instead a range of options. Now, this range might be constrained in practice--Nazi Germany just isn't going to become Sablinite, for instance--but there's still some degree of choice in how you approach problems. There should certainly be some degree of choice here, too, aside from the obvious binary of "don't get involved".
 
A proper democratic system would say to the Americans to fuck themselves after thanking for the military help,why is that so hard to grasp this?
US interest>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Africa
Would they though? If I were a newly struggling African country after decades of Nazi Opression with almost no infrastucture and very little cash in the bank, I might want to at least try and go to the US for some money and infrastucture projects among other aid, at least until I get on my feet economically, and Id desire to have good ties with the main people id be selling my goods to. Yes, their is a strong chance this evolves into a neo colonial system as the country grows dependent on American Aid and commerce but if its managed right, they could come off to be a strong democratic ally with both parties satisfied.

My personal solution to all of this would be to scrap the Nazi Invasion in its entirety and instead have them collapse almost immediately. Then we focus on the US and Japanese trying to curry to the new states and warlords, with both playing fast and loose morally. South Africa would remain as a conflict to be had but with more choices with the SA goverment either going full on Ian Smith (Dick to both the Boers and The Africans), the ANC compromise route of the Main game or Appeasing the Boers. If it goes Smith we have the US jump into stop both the Boers and ANC ( Backed By the Japanese) to save a "staunch ally of Democracy in the Dark Contenint"), while if they go Compromise, they do the same thing but more moral. If its Boer Appeasment, the US has the option of just throwing money at the ANC or actually jumping in with troops, same for the Japanese Co Prosperity sphere.
 
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That is a fat misconception,the US in TNO still had a red scare,do not confound more tolerance for left regimes with liking them..



Why on earth would there be a second red scare in the US? That makes negative sense. The TNO USSR is substantively more kind and less atrocity prone prior to the Nazi invasion than OTL, is completely destroyed and poses no threat to the US or anyone else for that matter....AND the US had already worked with them.

The US in TNO is not a global Hegemon trying to maintain the status quo that Socialists and leftists are opposed to. It is an underdog trying to destroy a status quo that leftists and socialists are a firmly opposed to. What's motivating a red scare? There are no Soviet spies undermining the US. There is no Soviet threat, the RIGHT wing are the ones who are collaborating with foreign powers, the LEFT wing are the ones who are on board with the US M-I complex fighting against the Nazis, and there is basically no moral ambiguity (however desperately TNO tries to pretend there is) between OFN at it's worst and even a gang of 4 Nazi Germany.

There is so much amazing thought and background put into this mod and a lot of nuance. But when it come to US foreign policy it can act ONLY like OTL Hawks. Not even the nuance of OTL opposition. And it feels that the reasoning is that OTL US acted like it did because they were led by and populated by intrinsically evil cackling neocolonial supervillains.

The US foreign policy and attitudes, even alignments, in the TNO world should be utterly dissimilar from OTL because od how radically different a world all these leaders came of age in. There shouldn't be any confidence in us tech or military supremacy by ANYONE because the US LOST. There shouldn't be arrogance towards other anti-Nazi movements ans states because the the US is one and even has occupied cities (which still stands as the single most nonsensical thing the mod behind the Gibraltar dam). But no....instead the US is run by President Mckinley with his VP Dulles and there are no other options, not EVEN player trap ones.
 

brooklyn99

Banned
Why on earth would there be a second red scare in the US? That makes negative sense. The TNO USSR is substantively more kind and less atrocity prone prior to the Nazi invasion than OTL, is completely destroyed and poses no threat to the US or anyone else for that matter....AND the US had already worked with them.

The US in TNO is not a global Hegemon trying to maintain the status quo that Socialists and leftists are opposed to. It is an underdog trying to destroy a status quo that leftists and socialists are a firmly opposed to. What's motivating a red scare? There are no Soviet spies undermining the US. There is no Soviet threat, the RIGHT wing are the ones who are collaborating with foreign powers, the LEFT wing are the ones who are on board with the US M-I complex fighting against the Nazis, and there is basically no moral ambiguity (however desperately TNO tries to pretend there is) between OFN at it's worst and even a gang of 4 Nazi Germany.

There is so much amazing thought and background put into this mod and a lot of nuance. But when it come to US foreign policy it can act ONLY like OTL Hawks. Not even the nuance of OTL opposition. And it feels that the reasoning is that OTL US acted like it did because they were led by and populated by intrinsically evil cackling neocolonial supervillains.

The US foreign policy and attitudes, even alignments, in the TNO world should be utterly dissimilar from OTL because od how radically different a world all these leaders came of age in. There shouldn't be any confidence in us tech or military supremacy by ANYONE because the US LOST. There shouldn't be arrogance towards other anti-Nazi movements ans states because the the US is one and even has occupied cities (which still stands as the single most nonsensical thing the mod behind the Gibraltar dam). But no....instead the US is run by President Mckinley with his VP Dulles and there are no other options, not EVEN player trap ones.
It's more that the US will support those who are anti-Nazi, as opposed to just supporting anyone left wing and being hostile to anyone right wing. One example would be the pro-American, Russian warlord state of Magadan, which is led a fascist (Matkovsky), who split off from Rodzaevsky due to the latter's Germanophilia. Magadan has cordial relations with the USA, even when, after getting to the sub-regional phase of unification, purging the pro-democratic faction that sought to emulate the US political system. As Matkovsky is a pragmatic man, who despises the Germans, the Americans would not give a damn how many socialists, or other political opponents he kills, so long as he can menace the Reich from the east (which he is determined to do, for the sake of reclaiming the lost territories).
 
Maybe there could be a neutral toleration like with OTL Yugoslavia....but it seems very hard to fathom that there wouldn't be a hard reaction against any Nazi, fascist, or fascist lite governments (or even generic right wing strongman). Italy and Japan are not Nazis, but both are also enemies of the US (and Japan is it's true number one enemy given it occupies US soil, the US seems amazing blasé about this in game).

The entire right-wing spectrum was against the US in a war it lost and every one of them has continued to be horrible places/governments while the left wing spectrum was at best neutral towards the US. And with no need to appeal to or appease the colonial powers, fully siding with anti-colonial movements seems intuitive and a logical development of pre-ww2 US thought (which was strongly anti-colonial even if steeped in neo-colonialism).
 
and there is basically no moral ambiguity (however desperately TNO tries to pretend there is) between OFN at it's worst and even a gang of 4 Nazi Germany.
I'd ask for you to bother with even a slight bit of charity but clearly you're incapable of thinking with any sense of depth at all.

We've never said that they're the same, people whining and moaning we do tend to just ignore us when we constantly try and explain that just because the US isn't good and is in fact, bad, the Nazis are worse.

"The US would be the bad guy if they weren't fighting the Nazis" somehow being turned into "OMG FUCKIN DEVS SAY US JUS NAZEEEE??????" has been going on for like two years now and I have literally no idea how people can just keep nodding along as if that makes any sense in the mod.
 
Yeah Africa is a bit of a weak spot.

Like there are still other ways to tell this story, even if you want to make it black and grey morality and make it clear US is only "good" because the opposition is effing evil. Like you could have the OFN simply let Angola die, have the mandates be somewhat cursed, but more utilizing native collaborators that people don't hate they're willing to work with rather than what we have now, with the Mandates transitioning into de jure independence but de facto with a huge ton of US corporate power and influence behind it(combined with being forced to join the OFN).

And you could, for a interesting mirror flip, also have the US back extreme tankies, opportunistic leaders, or anti-Nazi fascists or despotists because "they're not Germany/Japan" for another way of looking at this.
 
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I'd ask for you to bother with even a slight bit of charity but clearly you're incapable of thinking with any sense of depth at all.

We've never said that they're the same, people whining and moaning we do tend to just ignore us when we constantly try and explain that just because the US isn't good and is in fact, bad, the Nazis are worse.

"The US would be the bad guy if they weren't fighting the Nazis" somehow being turned into "OMG FUCKIN DEVS SAY US JUS NAZEEEE??????" has been going on for like two years now and I have literally no idea how people can just keep nodding along as if that makes any sense in the mod.

If the game narratively structures a US and Nazi victory as being essentially equivalent and denies the US player any agency....while ALSO allowing a Nazi player achieve to fully reform Nazi Germany, it makes the narrative structure feel as if it is a contest between two more or less equivalents power blocks. Especially as the mandates are basically RKs with a different flag and make basically zero sense for the US historically or in the context of the TNO timeline.

It's not about making the US Nazis (although the fact that you can make America a Nazi state but not avoid an American Empire in Africa again speaks about how agency is allocated to the player) but about how the narrative structures the two blocks. Opposition to the SA War should be nonexistent in the context of the TNO Cold War outside the American far right because it's in defense of an indisputably sovereign nation being attacked by Nazis. Instead it's written and the events are potrayed as a Vietnam/colonial war analogy.

Moving to a personal insult so quickly, especially when alternatives for making it a more grey conflict that make sense were offered (no Nazi invasion, America backing genocidal or blatantly evil leftist groups, etc) indicates to me that you don't want to understand what the issues that myself and others have with it is.

Hell, I wrote an entire post a while back about how ramping up US xenophobia towards Japan and making a clear East/West divide in US attitude fueled by racial issues and revanchism would be much more interesting than trying to set up an anti-war Opposition to liberating people from Nazis.

Because structurally, the game is set up so the the right choice for the player is to leave Africa to Nazi control and atrocity rather than try to liberate it. And that's because the game sets up the OFN liberation as ever bit as bad, maybe even worse in outcome, than continued Nazi control.

And at the same time....the game is structurally designed so that you can reform Nazi Germany into the Weimar Republic take 2.0....while keeping it's economic and military hegemony over Europe. And yet the gang of 4 triumph is presented as a great victory for reform and a good outcome. Despite being the masters of a Europe resting on the bodies of hundreds of millions with the murderers still in charge.

The ability to reform a "good" Nazi Germany and inability to be a "good" US is a major narrative problem. But as you said yourself....the US isn't good. It's bad. This a precept of the mod. The US is bad. The Nazis just happened to be worse (and not that much as far as the mod is concerned, certain Nazis are way worse but other ones aren't).
 
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If the game narratively structures a US and Nazi victory as being essentially equivalent and denies the US player any agency....while ALSO allowing a Nazi player achieve to fully reform Nazi Germany, it makes the narrative structure feel as if it is a contest between two more or less equivalents power blocks. Especially as the mandates are basically RKs with a different flag and make basically zero sense for the US historically or in the context of the TNO timeline.

It's not about making the US Nazis (although the fact that you can make America a Nazi state but not avoid an American Empire in Africa again speaks about how agency is allocated to the player) but about how the narrative structures the two blocks. Opposition to the SA War should be nonexistent in the context of the TNO Cold War outside the American far right because it's in defense of an indisputably sovereign nation being attacked by Nazis. Instead it's written and the events are potrayed as a Vietnam/colonial war analogy.

Moving to a personal insult so quickly, especially when alternatives for making it a more grey conflict that make sense were offered (no Nazi invasion, America backing genocidal or blatantly evil leftist groups, etc) indicates to me that you don't want to understand what the issues that myself and others have with it is.

Hell, I wrote an entire post a while back about how ramping up US xenophobia towards Japan and making a clear East/West divide in US attitude fueled by racial issues and revanchism would be much more interesting than trying to set up an anti-war Opposition to liberating people from Nazis.

Because structurally, the game is set up so the the right choice for the player is to leave Africa to Nazi control and atrocity rather than try to liberate it. And that's because the game sets up the OFN liberation as ever bit as bad, maybe even worse in outcome, than continued Nazi control.

And at the same time....the game is structurally designed so that you can reform Nazi Germany into the Weimar Republic take 2.0....while keeping it's economic and military hegemony over Europe. And yet the gang of 4 triumph is presented as a great victory for reform and a good outcome. Despite being the masters of a Europe resting on the bodies of hundreds of millions with the murderers still in charge.

The ability to reform a "good" Nazi Germany and inability to be a "good" US is a major narrative problem. But as you said yourself....the US isn't good. It's bad. This a precept of the mod. The US is bad. The Nazis just happened to be worse (and not that much as far as the mod is concerned, certain Nazis are way worse but other ones aren't).
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This is the latest Leak about Huttig. Does this look remotely better for Africa then even Neo-Colonial OFN mandates? Yes in current builds, Huttig collapses very quickly, he's still a monster who tries to impliment the Burgundy System and basically treats his RK like a giant prison camp.

Also look at Who can be leader at the time of The South African War. McCormack, RFK, LBJ, Bennet, Wallace. Maybe Lemay or Thurmond. Do any of these people seem like the type of person who would completely change USA's foreign policy in this situation? Yes the USA can go Fascist, but that requires a lot of steps, Yockey isn't being elected in 1964 because a lot of things need to happen for Yockey to even have a chance of becoming viable. South Africa is basically the first major crisis the USA deals with.
 
In the words of Panzer:

"The US forms a quasi-neo colonial regime and gives large sectors of teh countries over to corporate interests to exploit the area and then has to begin warring against anti-occupation forces belonging to the African natives who want to be fucking free for once, while putting in a 'democracy' friendly to their interests and with a president from a tribe that everyone else hates because the US doesn't understand how Africa works. Half the administration is even the same as the German one. At least unless they get purged, which might be an even worse idea since the Germans are the only ones who at least have experience doing what the US is trying to do. Also ban all members of teh African SS and collabs which is even more genius since there were thousands in Zentralafrika alone."

The only purpose of the mandates is extending free markets and American-led neo-colonial exploitation to Africa, all over half of sub-Saharan Africa and 200 million natives who want nothing more than legitimate freedom. "True, free democracries" are not in US interests. What is in America's interests are pro-US strongmen. Take Nobusuke Kishi, who the US set up as PM of Japan post-WWII, an active collaborator of Unit 731, architect of Manchukuo's mass-industrial slave system and infamous war criminal. This is a cold war, all of the superpowers are going to be knee-deep in horrific practices if it means the support of their interests. I think its great that TNO doesn't portray the US as Africa's white saviors, when they weren't anything close to that. I know some South Americans who would have... strong opinions about the US being portrayed as a completely benevolent and freedom-loving force, and I can't disagree.
There is just so much wrong with this I....... sigh......
For one we are talking about a period of time where the Press Media and the United States Government are not on the best of terms, we'd not be far removed from the Nixon Administration who caused an uproar for literally supporting a strongman in Guyana, and you're telling me the subsequent Administrations are going to do the exact same thing and expect that the public will react differently? That isn't even touching on the fact that the Media is going to be on the ground in the Mandates talking with the locals, and it would rather quickly become apparent if they were being sidelined by the American-lead Provisional Authority, or that their cause would not be taken up by African American voters who'd make up key components of the Republican-Democratic or Kennedy led NPP Coalitions. A neo-colonial venture simply isn't sustainable when it is going to have this much attention and exposure to the greater public, or a dedicated sizable minority that would go nuclear if this were attempted.
This isn't to say it is all wrong, as Panzer does touch on the theme of De-Nazification that I mentioned and how it would cause a lot of problems on the Administrative side, and the OFN would be hard-pressed to fill those roles with their own people. I do believe though that he is actually being too lenient in terms of the number of Germans in the Administration tough, especially as something akin to the original policy enacted in the American Occupation Zone of Germany would be followed and, personally, I doubt that there would be so many Germans in Afrika as to inundate the system and prompt its "simplification". The Administrative void would be mitigated by European or African contacts in the former Reichskommissariats that the CIA may have been in contact with, insurgents and the like who cooperated with the OFN in the War and could autonomously manage certain areas on the behalf of the OFN Provisional Government, thereby establishing a foundation of sorts for the future. I doubt other collaborators would be treated as harshly as the Germans however, again both because they may be necessary to fill the void left by the Germans themselves and because there will be pressure from outside groups to grant them leniency, Canadians and Australians vouching for the English for example.
I don't feel as though Nobusuke Kishi is a legitimate example of what you are trying to convey here; Kishi certainly was a favored candidate by the United States that is certainly true, but that was only after he had emerged as a contender for the Liberal Democratic Party leadership in '55, and as far as I'm aware the United States had no part in engineering his rise or in supporting his tenure as Prime Minister. Now there are certainly plenty of examples of the United States stepping in and "pushing" regime change in a pro-American direction, but it has to be remembered that outside the America's this was done because there was a fear they would fall into the Soviet sphere; how likely is it that the former parts of Afrika would fall back into German orbit, or that they may turn towards the Japanese, in comparison? I can certainly see some under-the-table dealings here and there to grease the wheels certainly, but I don't see the same kind of zeal in pursuing more extreme options unless there is clear evidence a country might be shifting.
Even on the political front you'd be beginning with a version of the Iraqi Governing Council where all the ethnic and religious minorities would be represented rather than a prop strongman (The OFN Administrator has that role), but those familiar with the early governments of Post-Invasion Iraq can recall that they were capable of causing more than a few problems on their own.
All and all, the present draft doesn't work with TNO's global scene or with America's political scene.
What bothers me the most is the part when the US will always automatically declare war on Angola when Schenck releases it during the SAW, instead of either allying with them to push out the Nazis, or at least, you know.... NOT declare war against a native independence movement that they share a common enemy with (And most likely funded themselves via the CIA if South African took the 'Support everyone' focus).
This would not fly no, and again I'd expect rioting among the African-American community once the Media is able to get a story out. The closest justification I can think of is if they were to somehow tie them to the African National Congress partisan movement, but that wouldn't work if the OFN has already been supporting them.
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To be clear, I fully understand what Panzer and the TNO team are going with here, but it is of my opinion that they have gone more than a bit overboard here in trying to establish some shades of grey with the OFN Mandates.
 

chankljp

Donor
Why would African nations automatically and "obviously" tell the United States to "go fuck itself" after it liberates them from Nazi control when the Nazis (and Japanese) are still around, their economies are devastated from decades of Nazi colonial exploitation, and the United States is by far the largest and most powerful force that can assist them with both problems?

Allow me to play devil's advocate here for a second. While the conditions are not exactly the same, we do have an example of something similar in OTL: The Cambodian–Vietnamese War of 1978 - 1989

Despite the Vietnamese being objectively better compared to the genocidal Khmer Rouge regime, when I went to Cambodia years ago, the people there were still generally very negative and resentful towards the Vietnamese, even though they might very well have saved the country from getting utterly wiped out by Pol Pot's madness.

I distinctly remembered my tour guide saying that if you see an elderly handicap amputee in the streets, you can be sure that it was the Vietnamese who did that to them... Because the Khmer Rouge could not have let you live. Something like that could happen here in the TNO world too, with Africans feeling highly resentful about getting turned into collateral damage statistics when the USAF is carpet bombing the heck out of the African RKs. I mean, the Americans did so to hurt the Germans, but they at most consist of 1-2% of the population. Meaning that most of the damage would have been innocent native Africans, that might, rightly or wrongly, see OFN as just the next group of colonizers there to take advantage of them after having already killed a large number of their people.
 
Meaning that most of the damage would have been innocent native Africans, that might, rightly or wrongly, see OFN as just the next group of colonizers there to take advantage of them after having already killed a large number of their people.
Which isn't even all that wrong a conclusion .
 
Allow me to play devil's advocate here for a second. While the conditions are not exactly the same, we do have an example of something similar in OTL: The Cambodian–Vietnamese War of 1978 - 1989

Despite the Vietnamese being objectively better compared to the genocidal Khmer Rouge regime, when I went to Cambodia years ago, the people there were still generally very negative and resentful towards the Vietnamese, even though they might very well have saved the country from getting utterly wiped out by Pol Pot's madness.
I don't think these situations are really comparable, because in the case of the Khmer Rogue what happened was that the Vietnamese kicked out a native ruling group, whereas in the case being discussed the United States is kicking out a colonial regime and replacing it with native rulers instead. Besides, what I was addressing was more whether the latter would find any benefit in aligning with the OFN even without CIA meddling or what not, and as I outlined the answer is...well, yes. As a result, it's not obvious that the liberated African nations would tell the United States to "go fuck itself". There's every reason to think that at least some of them would freely ally with the United States and join the OFN just because it serves their political and economic interests.

Something like that could happen here in the TNO world too, with Africans feeling highly resentful about getting turned into collateral damage statistics when the USAF is carpet bombing the heck out of the African RKs.
But you don't have to do that. In fact, doing so is a waste of time and aircraft. It makes much more sense to deploy CAS and fighters and use the 101st and 82nd Airbornes to destroy the RK militaries than to try strategically bombing industry-less jungle and savannah. That's not to say that this would result in no collateral damage, but it would be much more precise and probably involve native liberation groups in important roles (e.g., to hold rear areas while the American spearhead goes off to destroy more German garrisons).

Which isn't even all that wrong a conclusion .
Only because the game forces you to be a dick.
 
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