The List Regiment at Havrincourt
- Thread starter Gudestein
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- nazi victory tl ww2
I did two practice rund before this one, and the precursors took a lot of beating. This one is more coherent.
I did a mini-TL with a more limited scope: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ne-implements-a-first-strike-doctrine.429061/
That I was quite happy about.
From other authors;
Calbear and uncle Willie both made cool TL’s were the germans win Barbarossa, but then things Fall apart for them
Guns of the Reich on ASB is amazing and horrible at the same time
I did a mini-TL with a more limited scope: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ne-implements-a-first-strike-doctrine.429061/
That I was quite happy about.
From other authors;
Calbear and uncle Willie both made cool TL’s were the germans win Barbarossa, but then things Fall apart for them
Guns of the Reich on ASB is amazing and horrible at the same time
Chapter 111: The hope is extinguished.
Chapter 111: The hope is extinguished.
The absence of most of the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor was not really a surprise, and it alerted the Germans that a major naval battle was in the offering. After the mauling just received, it might seem extremely risky, but the eastern US with the industrial heartland was rapidly being exterminated. The Germans were aware that the situation called for desperate measures and had submarine scouts around Cape Horn and later directed He-274’s to shadow the American fleet as it moved across the tropics towards Florida. The 6 battleships and 5 fleet carriers with escorts were better prepared than the US fleet in Norfolk, with adequate gas masks distributed, an capable of shooting back they offered a very different kind of fight than the US Atlantic fleet had done as it was moored in Norfolk. Sadly for the US forces, the Germans had the reconnaissance advantage and had further captured bases in Florida which struck the US fleet as it moved west of Cuba on the 15th of July. In the air the US hellcats were overmatched by the He-100N’s and completely outclassed by the He-200’s, which were even flown by more experienced pilots. Heavy flak did however manage to disturb the aims of the approximately 200 participating He-277’s that had to keep above 5000 m’s and while most of the ships took crippling damage, only the New Jersey and USS South Dakota were sunk outright as several 2000 kg guided munitions penetrated too many compartments and as a lucky hit penetrated the forward magazines, respectively.
Several other ships had suffered damage and the fleet now took a beating as the carrier air arms started their attack. He-118N’s focusing on the cruisers while the Ju-187 focused on the carriers and the JU-92’s focused on the remaining battleships. This turned into a slaughter against the US fleet, but with a full 1/3 casualty rate among the JU-187 dive bombers. By the end of the day, a second wave of attack from the carriers had damaged most of the fleeing, and the German surface units had joined the foray and finished off the cripples. The Kriegsmarine now reigned supreme in the Atlantic.
On the ground things did not go much better for the Americans, as the Germans gradually build up their forces and were capable of using Tabun gas at will using both self-propelled artillery and aircrafts. The major obstacle for the advancing German units were the supply lines were a massive insurgency of armed civilians fought back. The German SS units responded with systematic mass killings of anyone who could not document German ancestry and enthusiasm for the Aryan cause. Civilian casualties in the range of several millions per week continued in what was now clearly seen as an extermination campaign. Non-German US citizens took to the forest en masse, but it was with an abysmal outlook, as the countryside simply could not support them.
On the 20th of June, Japanese carrier launched aircraft struck Loss Angeles, Seattle and San Francisco with plaque infested flees, in what was nevertheless largely an attack of symbolic value, when the German anthrax campaign also struck these cities. The end of June would also see the final realization that even boosted vaccines, or recipients of increasing doses of attenuated anthrax vaccines were left with little immunity, while the German soldiers roamed freely. The American command and the armed forces began to conceive the total strategic defeat they had suffered.
The absence of most of the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor was not really a surprise, and it alerted the Germans that a major naval battle was in the offering. After the mauling just received, it might seem extremely risky, but the eastern US with the industrial heartland was rapidly being exterminated. The Germans were aware that the situation called for desperate measures and had submarine scouts around Cape Horn and later directed He-274’s to shadow the American fleet as it moved across the tropics towards Florida. The 6 battleships and 5 fleet carriers with escorts were better prepared than the US fleet in Norfolk, with adequate gas masks distributed, an capable of shooting back they offered a very different kind of fight than the US Atlantic fleet had done as it was moored in Norfolk. Sadly for the US forces, the Germans had the reconnaissance advantage and had further captured bases in Florida which struck the US fleet as it moved west of Cuba on the 15th of July. In the air the US hellcats were overmatched by the He-100N’s and completely outclassed by the He-200’s, which were even flown by more experienced pilots. Heavy flak did however manage to disturb the aims of the approximately 200 participating He-277’s that had to keep above 5000 m’s and while most of the ships took crippling damage, only the New Jersey and USS South Dakota were sunk outright as several 2000 kg guided munitions penetrated too many compartments and as a lucky hit penetrated the forward magazines, respectively.
Several other ships had suffered damage and the fleet now took a beating as the carrier air arms started their attack. He-118N’s focusing on the cruisers while the Ju-187 focused on the carriers and the JU-92’s focused on the remaining battleships. This turned into a slaughter against the US fleet, but with a full 1/3 casualty rate among the JU-187 dive bombers. By the end of the day, a second wave of attack from the carriers had damaged most of the fleeing, and the German surface units had joined the foray and finished off the cripples. The Kriegsmarine now reigned supreme in the Atlantic.
On the ground things did not go much better for the Americans, as the Germans gradually build up their forces and were capable of using Tabun gas at will using both self-propelled artillery and aircrafts. The major obstacle for the advancing German units were the supply lines were a massive insurgency of armed civilians fought back. The German SS units responded with systematic mass killings of anyone who could not document German ancestry and enthusiasm for the Aryan cause. Civilian casualties in the range of several millions per week continued in what was now clearly seen as an extermination campaign. Non-German US citizens took to the forest en masse, but it was with an abysmal outlook, as the countryside simply could not support them.
On the 20th of June, Japanese carrier launched aircraft struck Loss Angeles, Seattle and San Francisco with plaque infested flees, in what was nevertheless largely an attack of symbolic value, when the German anthrax campaign also struck these cities. The end of June would also see the final realization that even boosted vaccines, or recipients of increasing doses of attenuated anthrax vaccines were left with little immunity, while the German soldiers roamed freely. The American command and the armed forces began to conceive the total strategic defeat they had suffered.
I'd like peoples input on the aftermath of these events. Germany has demonstrated the ability and the will to exterminate most of the people living in an entire continent, and contaminate its lands for decades to come. Would anyone prevent Hitler from organizing the world as he see fit?
Agree. Hitler would probably think he's freakin invincible and pretty much is ITTL.
Chapter 112: The aftermath
Considering decades later the impact of Hitler’s reign upon the world, the big question is if Hitler’s actions were truly justified – even from his own perspective. We now know that the Sicherheitsdienst falsified evidence of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, but Hitler’s vision was not only to extinguish the Jewish influence around the world, but also to secure German/Aryan dominance for future generations. In the United states, this was done by utter brutality, mass gassing and the distribution of anthrax spores across the nation. Even today, only Germans who can get the vaccine can live safely in the Western German Reich, and keeping sheep that are highly anthrax sensitive is still impossible.
Following the conquest of the US and the killing of most of its people, Hitler continued his rampage in 1944 against Mexico, which were blamed, not only for deserting Germany in 1917, but also of having accepted Jewish refugees (among the millions that fled south). That lesson was learned and Mexicos southern borders were duly shut as its people were slaughtered. 1944 also saw a wave of international requests were countries such Romania, Hungary and Italy were kindly asked to send their Jewish citizens to Germany. This trend continued and the grip was tightened to enforce a measure on selfcontrol in countries that wished to be friendly with Germany. Registries were made and the Sicherheitsdienst allowed to inspect the records.
Many have argued that the continuous superiority in weaponry made further German aggression unnecessary, in particular emphasized with the atomic bomb, which was so spectacularly used to level the city of Washington of its impressive array of monuments. However, although his lifelong ambition of exterminating Jewry was going well Hitler was becoming more and more unstale. Particularly from 1945 and onwards, he also became worried that his work to secure German/Aryan mastery was incomplete.
Hitlers remaining concern, was in its essence the fear that there were too few Aryans and too many non-Aryans. Domestically, non-German women with Aryan potential were recruited from across Europe and polygamy was encouraged. This influx of other cultures came at a risk of cultural dilution, but the Aryan indoctrination of kids were meticulously controlled and ruthlessly enforced. The challenge of non-Aryanism effectively became a death-sentence to imported woman who failed to deliver offspring and to raise them as Nazi Germans. These initiatives would be maintained in the following decades and provide steady population growth in the high values around 6-7% per year, with the infiltration of immigrant workers ensuring continuous industrial growth and wealth.
Despite the effective boost in the numbers of ethnic Germans, Hitler who was rapidly deteriorating condition would become apprehensive of the latent power in the sheer numbers of people in countries like India and China. This led to his decision to initiate operation Freyr, a covert operation were Germany would exploit its leading position in petrochemical industries and over a handful of years securing a global dominance in pesticide exports by dumping prices. From 1953, Germany would start admixing Dibromochloropropane in its Asian exports of pesticides (japan was excepted), and its widespread use gradually let to continuous emergence of permanent male infertility in the major population centers in India and China. Counteraction was delayed as self-censorship prevented condemnation of German industries, but the tragedy was gradually linked to the German products in 1956 and onwards were the lack of new babies was simply unnatural.
In particular in the middle east, muslim populations were encouraged to strike against German officials at Friday prayers, against which provoked Hitler to demand ruthless retaliation in the countries were German lives and property was lost. The King of Saudiarabia Abdul Aziz declined and condemned German crimes publically, which let Hitler to launch the world’s first nuclear-armed cruise missile. The missile struck Medina while Abdul Aziz was still in the city after his speak and killing the majority of the royal family. This led to a roar of protests across the Middle East, but the somber message from Germany was that Mekka was next on the target list.
This became Hitler’s last legacy and with Hitler’s death, the selling of Dibromochloropropane was abolished by Rheinhard Heydrich. By then, 100’s of millions had perished since Hitler unleashed his first war upon Poland, and many more would not be borne, but Germany now ruled a German centered world through strength and reigned by fear.
Considering decades later the impact of Hitler’s reign upon the world, the big question is if Hitler’s actions were truly justified – even from his own perspective. We now know that the Sicherheitsdienst falsified evidence of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, but Hitler’s vision was not only to extinguish the Jewish influence around the world, but also to secure German/Aryan dominance for future generations. In the United states, this was done by utter brutality, mass gassing and the distribution of anthrax spores across the nation. Even today, only Germans who can get the vaccine can live safely in the Western German Reich, and keeping sheep that are highly anthrax sensitive is still impossible.
Following the conquest of the US and the killing of most of its people, Hitler continued his rampage in 1944 against Mexico, which were blamed, not only for deserting Germany in 1917, but also of having accepted Jewish refugees (among the millions that fled south). That lesson was learned and Mexicos southern borders were duly shut as its people were slaughtered. 1944 also saw a wave of international requests were countries such Romania, Hungary and Italy were kindly asked to send their Jewish citizens to Germany. This trend continued and the grip was tightened to enforce a measure on selfcontrol in countries that wished to be friendly with Germany. Registries were made and the Sicherheitsdienst allowed to inspect the records.
Many have argued that the continuous superiority in weaponry made further German aggression unnecessary, in particular emphasized with the atomic bomb, which was so spectacularly used to level the city of Washington of its impressive array of monuments. However, although his lifelong ambition of exterminating Jewry was going well Hitler was becoming more and more unstale. Particularly from 1945 and onwards, he also became worried that his work to secure German/Aryan mastery was incomplete.
Hitlers remaining concern, was in its essence the fear that there were too few Aryans and too many non-Aryans. Domestically, non-German women with Aryan potential were recruited from across Europe and polygamy was encouraged. This influx of other cultures came at a risk of cultural dilution, but the Aryan indoctrination of kids were meticulously controlled and ruthlessly enforced. The challenge of non-Aryanism effectively became a death-sentence to imported woman who failed to deliver offspring and to raise them as Nazi Germans. These initiatives would be maintained in the following decades and provide steady population growth in the high values around 6-7% per year, with the infiltration of immigrant workers ensuring continuous industrial growth and wealth.
Despite the effective boost in the numbers of ethnic Germans, Hitler who was rapidly deteriorating condition would become apprehensive of the latent power in the sheer numbers of people in countries like India and China. This led to his decision to initiate operation Freyr, a covert operation were Germany would exploit its leading position in petrochemical industries and over a handful of years securing a global dominance in pesticide exports by dumping prices. From 1953, Germany would start admixing Dibromochloropropane in its Asian exports of pesticides (japan was excepted), and its widespread use gradually let to continuous emergence of permanent male infertility in the major population centers in India and China. Counteraction was delayed as self-censorship prevented condemnation of German industries, but the tragedy was gradually linked to the German products in 1956 and onwards were the lack of new babies was simply unnatural.
In particular in the middle east, muslim populations were encouraged to strike against German officials at Friday prayers, against which provoked Hitler to demand ruthless retaliation in the countries were German lives and property was lost. The King of Saudiarabia Abdul Aziz declined and condemned German crimes publically, which let Hitler to launch the world’s first nuclear-armed cruise missile. The missile struck Medina while Abdul Aziz was still in the city after his speak and killing the majority of the royal family. This led to a roar of protests across the Middle East, but the somber message from Germany was that Mekka was next on the target list.
This became Hitler’s last legacy and with Hitler’s death, the selling of Dibromochloropropane was abolished by Rheinhard Heydrich. By then, 100’s of millions had perished since Hitler unleashed his first war upon Poland, and many more would not be borne, but Germany now ruled a German centered world through strength and reigned by fear.
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See above, I agree that Hitler would feel invincible, and that would not be a good thing if it was true as in TTL.
I intend 112 to be the last update and I hope you liked it.
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Thank you. I wish I had the time to add more and better prose, maps, personal angles, etc., but RL wouldn’t permit it.
Still owned by the colonial powers. That again are occupied/severely influenced by Germany.
No chance of independence. Severe punishment for unrest.
You are more than welcome to take it on from here. Hitler dies before it can go so far, and I wonder if a quite so crazy replacement could be found.Should've eneded with the creation of the Empire of Man with God Emperor Adolf Hitler and the start of xenophobic massarces across the galaxy eventually becoming the 40k universe.
Before officially turning the attention to other matter and the next TL (not in the too near future), I'd like to thank Shadowmaster for his initial feed-back on the chapters describing the Machtergreifung (first part) of this TL. I'd also like to thank Cortz#9 for the many drawings of vehicles and aircraft described in the TL.
Thanks for the shout out, if you ever need more pics for another TL just PM me.
A very interesting, if utterly terrible and horrific, timeline. I really enjoyed reading it, and just regret that I didn't find it until it was already over. I'll be waiting for whatever you write next though.
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Thank you both for these comments. It was sort of a case against the determinism we often find, that OTL was a worst case.
I am glad you liked it. I spend a lot of time pondering how and why (the causality) the axis disadvantage could be circumvented.