The Fatherland - a Nazi victory TL

[NoMommsen]

Some questions ... just for some better understanding.

• Am I right that ITTL military actions took place as IOTL until Hitlers 'meddlings' late July with Case Blue ?
  • therefore the Rzhev salient (regardless if viewed from the german or the russian side) is created as IOTL ?
  • the 2nd Battle of Kharkov happens as IOTL also ?
• How far up north along the Volga are the germans going ITTL before the 'molotov-faction' askes for armistice/peace on 20th September ITTL ?
• As it sounds that the germany ITTL have taken Leningrad also : how 'near' died they come Moscow ITTL with what you describe as
  
  • "localized offensives"

And that ofc leads to my question of how this "Leningrad-Astrakhan line" circumvent Moscow ITTL to create the space you let the 'Generalplan Ost' unfold ... so close to the/a military border still controlled by a - as it seems - stalinistic 'rump'-SU with all of its Ural-mountain industrial and siberian mining assets, interfering heavily with the Wehrmachtsupply-lines as IOTL.

 

[Anchises]

I think the depiction of Lebensborn is terrifingly realistic. I have often read here, that the Reich would have been never able to create an artificial population boom.

This oppinion ignores how radical and evil the Nazis were. Population growth would have been their nr. 1 metric for success, after securing the desired territories and a stable peace with the West.

Once WW2 is won, all comparisons with political systems that existed IOTL are becoming increasingly hard. The Nazis have broken all moral, social or political norms IOTL. With so much land and humans in their control, they would warp and destroy to an unbelievable degree.

I firmly belief that if classical pro-natalist policies fail, the Nazis would have used force.

One element would have been abducting and brainwashing children, Himmler called that "Knabenlese" inspired by the Janissaries. Then the mass abduction and rape of "suitable" (in the twisted Nazi ideology) women from slavic populations. This is basically what has been depicted in this update.

I firmly belief that German women would have suffered eventually too. Something similiar to what the "Handmaid's Tale" depicts would have been likely. At least for women who don't "voluntarily" marry or at least have children. (meaning of voluntarily in this context: Women who don't succumb to the insane societal pressure and the economic measures designed to punish childless women)

The Nazis had no intention of letting women participate in society, beyond their function of having children. Any form of higher education or job (if the Nazis allow any of this) would be given to women who already had the desired 4 children or more.

Thinking and writing about that stuff really makes me sick. A genuine Nazi victory, realistically depicted, is genuinely disturbing even in a fictionalized form.

 

[Max Sinister]

I am no father and certainly no woman, but having a stressful pregnancy isn't exactly good for the baby, even if you're a nazi and don't care a bit for the mother. I once read a horror story about a woman who was raped at age ~17 by a brutal alcoholic, and forced by her parents to marry that brute. The baby was born with three stomach ulcers and died pretty soon. So much about Lebensborn.

 

[Lusitania]

While I am a little late to the TL I did have a question regarding the Lisbon conference. Spanish and Portuguese rail gage are each different from European gage. Would hitler really come by train and have his train laid up for several hours to have the undercarriage changed? I would of thought it would of been a major security risk.

 

[Changundramon]

The Poles will face the reality of being left without a homeland. (Kaiser K TL had the same thing, of Poland truly being lost forever and a part of Germany even when the Third Reich fell.)

What timeline is that?

 

[Kalga]

I am no father and certainly no woman, but having a stressful pregnancy isn't exactly good for the baby, even if you're a nazi and don't care a bit for the mother. I once read a horror story about a woman who was raped at age ~17 by a brutal alcoholic, and forced by her parents to marry that brute. The baby was born with three stomach ulcers and died pretty soon. So much about Lebensborn.

Maybe the accountants have done the number crunching and decided that the rate of 'defects' were within acceptable limits and as long as enough healthy (or healthy enough) babies were being pumped out in the end it doesn't really matter. The Nazis have never really cared for the costs as long as the results are good enough...

 

[New Cleo Genesis]

A Valkyrie Rises Over Europe.

Could've just as well linked to the story proper.

 

[Historyman 14]

Could've just as well linked to the story proper.

My bad. Here you go.

 

[Poach]

This is so far I think a good representation of how far the Nazi regime would've went. I think the role of the SS in politics is being left to the side somewhat, as they themselves had grand plans in the East: they wanted to found towns and villages populated primarily by former SS men (where all the men would also be a frontier militia, turning every town and village into a small fortress) and Himmler had ideas of turning the SS into some sort of military monastic order (like the Teutonic Knights), having various SS castles dotted about the place and the SS having their own Pagan religion.

The SS would've been huge in the former USSR. Almost a State-within-a-State in many places.

 

[Anchises]

Maybe the accountants have done the number crunching and decided that the rate of 'defects' were within acceptable limits and as long as enough healthy (or healthy enough) babies were being pumped out in the end it doesn't really matter. The Nazis have never really cared for the costs as long as the results are good enough...

This basically.

Stuff like in-vitro-fertilization, artificial insemination, inducing the birth of twins etc. would be very high on the research agenda probably. With limitless funds and with scientists without a conscience this stuff is probably achieved earlier than IOTL.

 

[Augustine Sedira]

I don't think German women will be forced into having children. Rather I believe through experimentation, the Germans would become masters at propaganda and will essentially turn the female population into one which wishes to bear children.

 

[Lusitania]

I don't think German women will be forced into having children. Rather I believe through experimentation, the Germans would become masters at propaganda and will essentially turn the female population into one which wishes to bear children.

Treatment of gay people revealed Nazi views on women. While gay men were either killed or sent to concentration camps. Lesbian were “converted” to straight women and became “willing” bearers of Arayan children.

Another experiment had young girls matched up with young men at camps producing beautiful Arayan babies. Every single fertile girl became pregnant any these camps.

 

[machine3589]

One thing that I could see happen is that a lot of socialists and communists will relocate to America, and with communism not discredited in the eyes of the general public in the west, America might shift considerably leftward in the coming decades. Right-wing politics will on the other hand suffer from association with the European regimes — the American public will not tolerate anything that smells vaguely like fascism, especially once the atrocities become common knowledge.

I see this view mentioned often, but I can't really understand it.

IOTL the Cold War against Communism did not repopularize the Nazis in mainstream consciousness, and nothing would discredit Communism as much as being defeated in the war against Nazism.

 

[Augustine Sedira]

Treatment of gay people revealed Nazi views on women. While gay men were either killed or sent to concentration camps. Lesbian were “converted” to straight women and became “willing” bearers of Arayan children.

Another experiment had young girls matched up with young men at camps producing beautiful Arayan babies. Every single fertile girl became pregnant any these camps.

As I said, I believe that through the mastering of propaganda and brainwashing, there would be little to no woman who didn't want to bear children.

 

[Lusitania]

As I said, I believe that through the mastering of propaganda and brainwashing, there would be little to no woman who didn't want to bear children.

Even those who opposed the Nazi philosophy would feel obligated to outwardly show its adherence to the state propaganda. For everyone would know of people who spoke out against the state and soon disappeared.

 

[baldipaul]

While I am a little late to the TL I did have a question regarding the Lisbon conference. Spanish and Portuguese rail gage are each different from European gage. Would hitler really come by train and have his train laid up for several hours to have the undercarriage changed? I would of thought it would of been a major security risk.

I made this exact same point about the rail gauge after the the piece with the Lisbon Conference. I hadn’t thought about the security aspect though, however it would be difficult for the British to attack it.

 

[Lusitania]

I made this exact same point about the rail gauge after the the piece with the Lisbon Conference. I hadn’t thought about the security aspect though, however it would be difficult for the British to attack it.

Well there would be two stops along the border each way and the location would be known.

 

[Tjyorksgeezer]

One quibble about the last update, IOTL Bulgaria also refused to allow the jews in their country to go to the death camps, they were and still are considered as fellow Bulgarians and not as a separate community.

 

[Lusitania]

what was the outcome of British India, Dutch Indonesia and French Indochina? plus the middle east. These were the countries that suffered the first major decolonialization? What about German colonies? Did the Germans get them back? South Africa would also be a good update with its Afrikaners leaning towards NAzi ideology.

 

[New Cleo Genesis]

One quibble about the last update, IOTL Bulgaria also refused to allow the jews in their country to go to the death camps, they were and still are considered as fellow Bulgarians and not as a separate community.

As was the case with Finland as well, actually.