Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II

What's happening in the trans Atlantic blue ribbon? In otl the SS United States is being built. If I remember correctly the Queen Mary is holding the record.
I believe ITTL that Germany has been making turboprop planes that are making Trans-Atlantic flights and the British Meteor jet is going to have its OTL problems butterflied away.
The S.S. United States received massive subsidies from the United States government for the purpose that it can be quickly converted to be a troop transport ship, without the United States having any reason to be involved with putting any military force in Europe ITTL there is not going to be any subsidies from the government.
The real question is how far along is Boeing, Douglas, and Lockheed in developing passenger jets?
Without the United States participation in the ITTL wars, GE and Pratt-Whitney should be further along in developing the turbofan engines which are better and more efficient than the turbojets engines that came first.
IOTL WW II research and development of the turbofan engine was put on the back burner and ITTL their should be more money coming from the United States government for research and development into creating the Intercontinental Bomber and the technology from that can be used for passenger jets planes.
 
...... The issue is that simply until there is the market pressure from the German and European Aeronautic companies that have taken the forward position in the race of Commercial Jets and planes, which should be happening by now, there won't be much of a will to inject the higher amount of money, time and effort for the American companies to get back in the race...

.... In fact the issues of the Gloster Meteor were already butterflied from existence, namely as the German Government temp-banned it from being sold in the German and linked markets after the Henkel Labs's verification revealed several defects in the current model and made the authorization pending to the issues being fixed before being allowed to fly and sell in most of Europe.....
 
...... In fact the issues of the Gloster Meteor were already butterflied from existence, namely as the German Government temp-banned it from being sold in the German and linked markets after the Henkel Labs's verification revealed several defects in the current model and made the authorization pending to the issues being fixed before being allowed to fly and sell in most of Europe.....

I think you mean the De Havilland Comet, not the Gloster Meteor.
 
there won't be much of a will to inject the higher amount of money, time and effort for the American companies to get back in the race...
This is where we are going to have to disagree.
It took the Boeing 377, DC-6, and the Lockheed Constellation eight hours to cross the United States and if on a NYC-LA flight if it encountered headwinds the planes would have to set down before reaching Los Angeles as the pilots would reach the maximum flight time that the FAA set.
All three planes could fly from Idlewild to London but if they encountered bad weather they would have to find alternative landing areas.
IOTL the Boeing 367-80 which was the prototype of the 707 first flew in 1954 after two years of development.
Now you are right about the airlines not having much interest IOTL, but the success of the ITTL Comet is going to be a major game changer and the airlines companies and manufacturers will need to move into jets if they don't want to be left behind.
Another factor is that ITTL United States is not going to have access to bases in Europe or Asia, is going to have to develop an Intercontinental bomber that can fly from the United States to Europe and back with minimal mid-air refueling and IOTL 1947 Boeing is already developing the B-52 which the 707 has very much in common in regards to fuselage design.
 
And again ejpsan, you HAVE TO REMEMBER, that this America ISN'T the one of OTL that profited immensely from the spending of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS done by Roosevelt both in creating new technologies required to win a War and the gifting of the technology from Britain during WWII and other specialists post War.

Here Truman is dealing with the worrying situation that each month and year that the US dawdles the competition is getting further and further ahead, and he realizes that to get again close to the top will require an ingent spending and development of the technological industries to support such developments...

They can shorten the time, true, but this requires the will to sacrifice an ingent amount of money in order to reduce the technology gap where the Germans are far ahead and the British and French are behind the Germans themselves......

.Moreover ask yourself from WHERE it comes the biggest cut of the money that the American Government and Industry will be forced to spend ?

Namely Taxes and Profits from Market Sales specially from exports..... same Profits that from Post WWII ITTL have been dwindling and dwindling in a smaller but consistent rate as the Germans have been enacting their tactics of multiplying their industry by establishing local factories and industries on Africa, Asia and South America, industries that now are running a fierce competition for the American companies, reducing more and more profits and subsequently the Taxation return for the Government....

The more worrying is that i suspect what Truman just took the easy way right now to gain the political will for the congress to approve said spending, namely to use the Kraut Scare to push the spending for getting the Armed Forces closer to the Technological level of the German Forces....
 
Part 71,Chapter 1032
Chapter One Thousand Thirty-Two


7th September 1953

Hyde Park, New York

“I am not a spy, nor am I an agent of my Government” The girl said again.

Her passport said that her name was Asia Ignacja Lawniczak, a resident of Berlin, Germany. Exactly what she was doing asking to speak a former President of the United States was the question and the Secret Service was grilling her for answers. She was sticking with her story, that she was here on business and was a private citizen. There was something that she had on her that the former President found intriguing, a gold pendent with a black eagle engraved on one side and stylized L on the other. When Franklin Roosevelt was informed of it he wanted to meet her.

“You cannot be serious” The Lead Agent of his detail said, “We have no idea who she is and then there is what we found in her car.”

It was a satchel bag that contained a stack German War Bonds left over from the Second World War. Those would be mature and potentially worth millions of dollars that would be completely untraceable.

“I doubt that I would be worth bribing these days” Roosevelt said to the Lead Agent who didn’t find it funny.

When the door was opened, and Roosevelt was wheeled into the room, Asia was not going anywhere because she was handcuffed to the table. “Your mistress took quite a risk sending you here like this young lady” Roosevelt said.

“It was seen as worth it” Asia replied, something about the way she spoke suggested that she was very economic with her words. Still, she made no effort to hide who she was, talking with an accent straight from Eastern Europe. As she had said, she was no spy, or at least she had no interest in presenting herself as one.

“If it got you fingerprinted, photographed and thrown on the first plane back to Europe?” Roosevelt asked, “Having the whole world thinking you are a spy.”

“The Hundred said that I would be taken care of if I volunteered to do this and there were consequences” Asia answered.

“The Hundred of the Order of Louise” Roosevelt said as he sat the pendent down on the table, “I am aware that they are not the local garden club, but this is a bit out of character for them. They normally stay out of international affairs.”

“It has to do with Jonas Salk, Albert Sabin and the March of Dimes” Asia said, “The Kaiserin wants to support that research but cannot do it openly because of politics. That is what the bonds are for, a donation.”

That was a surprise. It seemed like most of the people who were donating to the Polio research where only doing it to burnish their credentials. The German Kaiserin was offering a donation knowing that the world would likely never know. Then the handcuffs dropped away from Asia’s wrists and she took the pendent back.

“Thank you, Sir” Asia said.

Roosevelt noticed that the Secret Service Agents were bristling.

“I know that the ginger virago who probably taught you tends to go for the spectacular, but I would recommend you go about doing things differently” Roosevelt said as he handed Asia her passport back. “Have a nice drive back to Canada Miss Lawniczak and tell your mistress that there are better ways to get my attention.”


Seattle, Washington

The engines of Dash 80 were spooling up and Howard Hughes could see the test pilots moving around the cockpit. When he had decided that TWA needed to go head to head with Lufthansa on the international routes he had learned that the current fleet of airliners were woefully inadequate and aging. Curtis, Douglas and Lockheed were moving forward with airliners powered by turboprops along the lines of the Dornier/Focke-Wulf 200 series. Hughes knew that would never do. Boeing however was making proposals that would compete directly with the D/F-W and Junkers 300 series they just had some large technical hurdles to overcome. That was where Hughes had come in, he had partnered with Boeing and Pratt & Whitney to get the Dash 80 prototype constructed over the last two years. Then events in England had thrown a wrench in the works.

De Havilland had been forced to reevaluate their Comet airliner after issues with metal fatigue and the cabin pressurization system were discovered. The Engineers at Boeing were acutely aware of what had happened and had moved to avoid making the same mistakes. That had still resulted in delays and cost overruns. Hughes had wanted blood a year earlier when Boeing had decided without asking him to move to a three by three seating arrangement like the Junkers Ju-324 and the latest version of the FW300. It was probably the right move but again it had resulted in delays.

As Hughes watched Dash 80 taxied out to the runway and turned onto the threshold. As the engines ran up to full power the test pilot stood on the brakes and the roar of the four big P&W engines filled the air. Hughes had wanted to be in the cockpit for this flight but had been talked out of it. He figured that this was better, seeing that much power constrained was like an elemental force of nature.

Then the brakes were released, and hundreds of tons of aircraft hurtled down the runway. As it passed Hughes it was already racing, even from a couple hundred yards away he could feel waves of noise coming from it. Then it lifted off the runway and climbed nearly vertically, the sound fading as the prototype rapidly flew away from the airport.

“Well gentlemen” Hughes said with a wide grin, “It looks like we got a winner.”

The investors that Hughes had gathered had not been informed that standing in a field watching the prototype was what they would be doing today. They were looking at him like if he was nuts, but he was used to it.
 
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Holyknight we are both looking at the same things but we are coming up with different interpretations, some of the things you are posting are dead on the money but some of them are missing the mark, sometimes just a little, sometimes a lot, and the last two statements apply more to me than to you.
As an American I don't have the appreciation on how big the United States economy is and ITTL it does have a head start on consumer electronics and I have no doubts that other countries are playing the United States and Germany against each other for their own gain and the United States is not going to be completely shut out on the world markets as the United States is also a large market for other countries to trade with.
Another thing is that economics is not a Zero Sum game and just because one country gets richer doesn't t that other countries get poorer in return.
 
Ah, the Boeing 707 makes an appearance and a bit earlier than OTL too.

Interesting to see Hughes involved in that. Let's hope he will do a bit better than OTL.
 
Ah, the Boeing 707 makes an appearance and a bit earlier than OTL too.

Interesting to see Hughes involved in that. Let's hope he will do a bit better than OTL.
Ah, the Boeing 707 makes an appearance and a bit earlier than OTL too.

Interesting to see Hughes involved in that. Let's hope he will do a bit better than OTL.

It would be outstanding for him to build a TTL Glomar Explorer to snag a German sub.
 
Part 71, Chapter 1033
Chapter One Thousand Thirty-Three


10th September 1953

Tempelhof Airport

As she walked through the terminal building Kat realized that this would possibly be one of the last times she came here. The new Airport north-west of the city was nearly complete and there were plans to redevelop the land that Tempelhof was sitting on. There were various proposals. Residential neighborhoods, industry, sports facilities, a university campus or a vast park had all been suggested. Kat didn’t really have an opinion on the subject. Though having this be a park with wide green fields and trees or a University with neoclassical buildings meant to inspire would be nice, even if it was unrealistic. However, it seemed that paving over such a place was the order of things. Perhaps, if it were a residential neighborhood one day it would feature stately houses and tree shaded lanes. A nice place to live.

Walking past the newsstand Kat was a bit annoyed by the front pages all featuring the face of Howard Hughes and photographs of the airplane at the center of his latest antics. He was lucky that he didn’t get himself killed and/or destroyed a valuable prototype by throwing the airplane into a series of violent maneuvers in the second ever flight, that time with him at the controls. Contrary to rumor, Hughes hadn’t actually flown it in a loop but the he had performed a barrel roll over the gathered press and hundreds of spectators. Everyone was certain that Boeing was quite upset with Howard Hughes and they were going to have it out with him as soon as they finished processing all the orders for their newest airliner.

“Men” Kat muttered to herself sarcastically.

Kat hoped that her son Malcolm would not be one of those men driven to do insane things by testosterone poisoning, but she wasn’t optimistic. If he turned out anything like her and Douglas or worse, like Kat’s father, then they would have a serious problem on their hands. It was however Tatiana who worried Kat the most. Not yet three years old and she was revealing herself to be an extremely sensitive child. Whenever Kat was in a depressive state she would find herself with Tat there in her arms. She had talked at length about this with Doctor Holz. Was she teaching Tat to be like her one day? Occasionally crippled with depression so severe that she could hardly get out of bed? Or setting the stage for her to be like Ilse? Who had been learning to cope with Agoraphobia because it never went away completely.

Arriving at International Arrivals, Kat saw Maeda Natsumi coming through the line. The Customs officer looked at the contents of her bags and didn’t see anything untoward though Kat could see at least a dozen items that were likely to be weapons.

“Gräfin Katherine” Natsumi said in greeting as she made it through customs.

“If you had waited I could have gotten you through the line faster” Kat said as she fell into step with the Natsumi.

“I am a stranger here” Natsumi said, “Jumping the queue being the first thing I did, did not seem like the best start.”

“Regardless, you got through” Kat said, “Is there anything you want to do while you are here?”

“This is supposedly the center of the world when it comes to Classical Music” Natsumi replied.

“I think that something can be arranged” Kat said.

As they walked out of the airport Kat noticed that Natsumi was looking around with a barely concealed curious look on her face. Kat knew that it was a typical day outside the airport. People with cars picking up loved ones and those without heading for the city’s transit system. Kat realized that she must have had the same look on her face when she had arrived in Tokyo months earlier. With that she decided that she wouldn’t ruin the moment by mentioning how the girls were looking forward to meeting her. She would save that for tomorrow, after Natsumi had a chance to get some sleep.


Kloster Lehnin, Germany

The 2nd Life Hussars might have been a Horse Cavalry Regiment but in times of national emergency they were a Panzer Regiment the same as any other. The Lynx that Kurt was riding in the gunner’s seat of was a part of that. The five-year-old “Commander” at the moment was delighted to be standing in the cupola with the seat raised as high as it could go as she laughed as the landscape rolled past. Olli was smiling as he saw Suse’s pure joy, Mercer, the usual gunner didn’t mind being able to sit this run out.

They completed the practice course and the Panzer ground to a halt. Suse was disappointed that the ride was over but climbed out of the Commander’s hatch as Kurt had taught her so that he could get out himself. Suse was wearing black coveralls that had been made for her that were almost identical to the ones worn by the Panzer Corps, it was what she had asked for as a birthday present.

“I think the PC you’ve been training is a bit underage” Kurt heard the Oberst say as they climbed down from the turret.

“What do you say Suse?” Kurt asked, “Are you underage?”

“No” Suse replied indignantly, “My birthday was in February.”

“See, you heard her” Kurt said.

“Of what year?” The Oberst asked.

Suse just stared at him her lower lip stuck out, refusing to answer the question.

The Oberst laughed, “She seems to be your kid Knispel” He said.

“Gerta is out of town this week and she wanted to see the Panzers” Kurt explained.

“It probably would have been better if you had stuck her in with Feldwebel Bauer’s children” The Oberst said.

“Nele thinks that Suse is a bad influence” Kurt replied, and Olli just shrugged. It was a mutual thing, when Suse was with Olli’s children things in the Bauer household tended to be more insane than usual.
 
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The fact that OTL WWII and the subsequent Allies occupation of Berlin and the division between Soviet and Allied zones does not happens, make the closure of Templehof Airport sooner ITTL very plausible.
I still see the "Kraut Scare" as more of a media creation and something that opportunistic politicians using to stand out from others instead of something that is coming from the American people themselves.
With the German War Bonds apparently having matured, the American people and economy are getting a potentially large influx of cash that will bring only the sort of feelings that everybody gets when they come into a lot of money: Happy Ones, and that is the best propaganda the Germans can use.
 
"God Damn those dastardly Krauts"!
"What have they done this time? Exploded a new bomb? Broken the sound barrier? Landed on the Moon"?
"No, something far worse and more despicable this time, they may have gone too far"
"oh my god! They couldn't have... have they"?
"Yes, they have, they've honoured the war bonds"
"May God have mercy on us all"...


NY Times headline the next day:
"Maybe Those Krauts Ain't So Bad After All"
 
"God Damn those dastardly Krauts"!
"What have they done this time? Exploded a new bomb? Broken the sound barrier? Landed on the Moon"?
"No, something far worse and more despicable this time, they may have gone too far"
"oh my god! They couldn't have... have they"?
"Yes, they have, they've honoured the war bonds"
"May God have mercy on us all"...


NY Times headline the next day:
"Maybe Those Krauts Ain't So Bad After All"

Nah, it would be more like "Insidious Kraut Plot To Drive Up Inflation!"
 
Nah, it would be more like "Insidious Kraut Plot To Drive Up Inflation!"
More likely than not, the Federal Reserve Bank will be more than aware of the bonds maturing and has adjusted the rates in a way that keeps inflation from getting anywhere near out of hand and without constricting the economy at the same time, also taxes at the State and Federal levels will take a bite of the proceeds but there will still be plenty of money to go around and to be enjoyed.
Also a significant amount of money will be saved and reinvested so the flood of money into the economy will be more manageable then the doomsayers are telling everybody.

Having FDR being the one contacted for the Empress is a good idea if it wasn't so clumsily executed, he probably has some ideas on how to get the Empress plans off the ground to do everyone the most good.
 
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