Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Peabody-Martini, Sep 17, 2018.

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  1. EWilanO Well-Known Member

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    This timeline's US presidents seem to come with a standard issue idiot ball.
     
  2. holyknight Well-Known Dude that comments here and there.

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    It was ups and downs... Roosevelt was OK, then Dewey pretty much pissed on the chance of having more American influence, for not talk that several of the European nations did not forget that the Americans acted as "Death Merchants" feeding the military industry of the Soviets and Japanese ...... Truman stabilized things, although he pretty much foresaw that as things went, the Americans were in a path of stagnation and that many people in Capitol Hill were having an increasing disconnection between what they believed that America was entitled to, and how the rest of the world saw the Americans, specially with the past baggage of the last decades.... At one point Truman simply stopped fighting, and pretty much just wanted to end his mandate and GTFO of DC, specially as he didn't want to be mixed up with what he likely suspected that would come in the further years....

    And Harriman pretty much just added fuel to the nearly ready bonfire in Korea.....
     
  3. EWilanO Well-Known Member

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    Yes, no matter what happens, the US will have a pretty ugly reputation abroad. And an even worse one if the machinations of the American weapon-dealing variety of shrubbery come to light.
     
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  4. jlckansas Well-Known Member

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    I can see Senor Arbusto staying out of this one. He knows what the Germans are capable of and would know that the US themselves would not defend him. This is going to be an above board operation by the US and they will let everyone know they are the ones arming and training the Chinese here. If anything Bush might even use this as a way to mend some fences with the Europeans and make sure they know he is having nothing to do with any of this.
     
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  5. holyknight Well-Known Dude that comments here and there.

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    Señor Arbusto may NOT mix directly with this, but in a level, take in consideration that besides accumulating money and power in the underworld of the weapons's black market, he has a grudge, a BIG FAT one, and ironically it is with his own country's idiocy and arrogance.

    He may engineer something to drag the US to the mess, if only, because he would consider that it is long time for the United States to get their heads shoved into the realities of War......

    If anything, in a twisted way, Mr Arbusto respects the Germans for being everything that the US deluded themselves to be in the intelligence and military field.....
     
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  6. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    The OTL Harriman is much smarter then this, now President Harriman could be thinking that all that China is doing is Sabre rattling and is not serious about attacking Korea.
    Harriman may see this as a way to expand American influence in Asia with the potential to gain a large share of the market in China.
    There is also the possibility that Harriman will try to talk China down from its bellicose threats by sharing intelligence that shows what China is up against and that it will not win in a shooting war and that even if China thinks it is only going to be a limited war, the most likely outcome is that the war is expanded and the goal of the other countries is going to be regime change.
    IOTL Chiang Kai-shek would in the fifties and sixties make threats about invading Mainland China but would inevitably back down when faced with reality and this could be the case here.
    One of the most important question is how much does Chiang Kai-shek really control in China?
    Is the government still plagued by various different warlords across China?
    We already know that this crisis was started by Chiang Kai-shek as a domestic ploy, but how are the people reacting to this, they may not care about a strip of land that have not controlled for a couple of centuries?
     
  7. Th3saint Well-Known Member

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    Why to i have a feeling that kiki will pull a kat in the near future?
     
  8. Threadmarks: Part 88, Chapter 1376

    Peabody-Martini Well-Known Member

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    Chapter One Thousand Three Hundred Seventy-Seven


    2nd June 1960

    Tempelhof, Berlin

    Kiki got the worst of the dried mud off her flak vest before she put it in her locker. It wasn’t like the rest of her uniform that she could just throw in the washing machine.

    “Why are you doing this to yourself?” Vanesa asked.

    Kiki closed the padlock on the locker that she kept in her dorm room. She was fighting fatigue as she tucked the chain that had the key to her locker and her two identity disks down the front of her Hertha jersey. She didn’t have the energy to explain this to Vanesa. Kiki had just stepped out of the shower and only wanted to get as much sleep as she could before she had to be up in the morning.

    “Couldn’t you go off and just be a Princess” Vanesa said, “Look pretty in front of the cameras, sit on a beach and cause scandals or something.”

    Kiki gave an exasperated sigh. “That is not a good life” She said.

    “Perhaps” Vanesa said, “But having you staggering in looking half dead, that gun and knife. That all seems extreme.”

    The pistol and karambit were secured in the locker, they had been in there for months and Vanesa had said nothing. Why now? The other weapons were in the armory in Potsdam. God only knew how Vanesa would react if she brought those around. Instead, Vanesa watched every evening as Kiki came back from her training sessions with Kat and as had been drilled into her head, saw to her equipment first.

    “I don’t want to be dead weight wherever they send me over the summer” Kiki said, “And I cannot expect others to protect me.”

    “I just wanted to let you know how crazy your actions seem to everyone else” Vanesa said.

    “Then it’s a good thing that everyone else is not anyone I feel I need to answer to” Kiki replied.

    “We have to live with you” Vanesa said, “Ever thought of that?”

    “Well, duh” Kiki replied, “Why do you think that I keep everything locked up?”

    Vanesa clearly didn’t like that answer, but Kiki was beyond caring. Tomorrow, she had classes and there were important examinations that were only a few weeks away that would gain her certification as a Field Medic. There was too much to do and time was running so short. Caring about what her peer group thought would be wasting time she didn’t have. Getting into bed Kiki was asleep almost as soon as her head hit the pillow.


    Indianapolis, Indiana

    Entering the convenience store, Robert Bryant saw the headlines of the newspaper in the rack next to the door.

    President Announces China-Korea Peace Initiative, U.S. to entice nations to mediation.

    Below it was a photograph of the President behind the podium in what was presumably the White House. Below the photograph was a quote from his announcement.

    “The World has seen enough war this century to last it three, let’s end this cycle of violence before it starts anew.” -President A. Harriman.

    Robert wished the President luck in his efforts to bring peace to Asia. He just wished there was more peace to be found here on the streets of Indianapolis as he walked through the store. It was typical of stores found everywhere. Selling mostly beer, cigarettes and candy. It did have a small selection of groceries for those too lazy to go to an actual grocery store and number of items behind the counter that more respectable establishments wouldn’t sell. Girly magazines, condoms and the like.

    As an experienced Homicide Detective, Robert knew an open and shut case when he saw one. Still, he was required to treat like any other homicide and investigate the matter like if it involved the corpse of someone who he didn’t already know. In this case it was the body was of a young man who was well known to the Indianapolis Police Department having spent half his life behind bars and seeming to break every single law on the books when he was out. Presently he was sitting with his back against the glass of a cooler full of beer with an expression of surprise frozen on his face and three bullet holes in his chest. The blood that was pooled around him would be a real mess for someone to clean up.

    “The owner said that he was closing out the day when Chucky here bursts in and tries to stick up the place” Sam, Robert’s partner, said, “He’d been stuck up before and had a .38 behind the counter just in case. Turns out that Chucky was bluffing and didn’t have a gun, just a carrot of all things in his pocket.”

    “How did the owner take learning that?” Robert asked.

    “He’s kind of torn up about it” Sam replied.

    “He shouldn’t be” Robert said, “Chucky was a two-time loser who going to die this way or in prison. All he did was spare the taxpayers a great deal of future expense.”

    “I know that, and you know it too” Sam said, “But the owner, he doesn’t.”

    Robert just shrugged, that’s life. Better to have a dead skel like Chucky for the Coroner to take to the morgue than a dead store owner. Robert knew full well that if Chuck Manson had been the one with the gun then that was exactly how it would have turned out.

    “The owner also demanded to know what the Hell he’s paying us for if shit like this keeps happening” Sam said.

    “Remind him that we’re Homicide and tell him to take it up with Patrol” Robert replied. What was the World coming too where the store owner would have the balls to make a comment like that?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  9. Jinx999 Well-Known Member

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    It it works out, this could drag the US out of its international dip.

    On the other hand, if it turns out the US is mediating in bad faith . . .
     
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  10. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    Yea!
     
  11. Darth_Kiryan The Númenorean Sith

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    The question here is, iuf this ballsy attempt fails, then who amongs the Republicans of 1960 is going to hit the President hard.

    Actually, come to think of it,

    Should be convention time anyway, should it not?
     
  12. Dan Please register to vote

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    I'd be inclined to believe that the US isn't negotiating in bad faith as such, if peace appears then great - they get the plaudits, if it doesn't then the US has a new market. It's a slightly cynical win/win
     
  13. Tursiops Amicus Well-Known Member

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    It seems that the USA is doing in this TL the same stupid actions that OTL but without following the same historical path that OTL.

    Anyway I think the plot is credible and well thought, but a bit biased against USA
     
  14. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    Harriman may be looking at voter fatigue of Democratic Presidents and people may go with a credible Republican candidate this time around and he needs to do something to change the mood of the electorate.
    China should be looking at what Russia is doing instead of getting in to an unnecessary fight with Korea.
    The Americans should set conditions on any sale of weapons are to be used only for defensive purposes and that should be communicated to the rest of the world.
     
  15. StevoJH Well-Known Member

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    It sort of reads like he is intervening overseas to try take people’s minds off what is happening at home.

    The other thing to remember is that while the US economy might be larger then that of either France or Britain individually, it did not receive the massive transfer of wealth that OTL occurred from 1939 to 1945 from the UK or France.

    Because before then, a fairly large amount of money generated in the US economy (and South America) may have been flowing back to the UK and France, but not directly accounted for in GDP statistics. ITTL this would not have stopped.
     
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  16. Rinasoir Occasional Author

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    Man, you could have just had Chatlie M join the Beachboys in a few years, but no, armed robbery gone wrong.
     
  17. FickleCrossroad Wrong on so Many Levels

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    ...And nothing of value was lost.
     
  18. mkemp Well-Known Member

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    Chucky Manson Yeah, nothing of value was lost except for the shopkeeper's mental equilibrium..
     
  19. ejpsan Well-Known Member

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    This reminds me of the joke by Steven Wright: “ The ice cream truck in my neighborhood played ‘Helter Skelter’”.
     
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  20. holyknight Well-Known Dude that comments here and there.

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    In fact here, the flow has further changed. Argentina its in a path of further industrialization as the Civilian Government survived the OSS Coup, and the KLM gained basing rights in Rio Gallegos.

    Argentina likely it's in the path of starting to add value to the prime basic commodities that they sold, in addition to be a local producer of German stuff....

    Rather than buying American, the Argentinians are getting a cut of the cake and also the Germans are profiting, and with all, the end price is still cheaper than the American competition.


    And that doesn't includes the further boot up the arse that was the end of the "Second Mexican Revolution" and the German Corporations giving generous aid to the new Mexican government in form of work, honest taxes from their Factories and aiding in their industrialization.... From being another source of commodities, Now the American companies are having to deal with competition of German designed stuff with the label "Made in Mexico" and that actually has the quality levels to firmly compete in a level with their local stuff and sell more as it has a lower overall cost.

    Finally add the recent sub rosa collaboration between the Germans and the Canadian Government, that it's having the Canadian companies gaining tech support in order to produce Fighters and MBT that can certainly surpass the current American military units, and in the process become a replacement supplier for the British as they would certainly prefer to buy Canadian, with professional support than American war material that has been proven in the last decades to not be entirely "trustable"


    Alone, each wouldn't damage the American Economy... But the point is that each has been chipping away from the overall American profits and economic growth, and i suspect that the actual numbers while still in the Black, are uncomfortably getting slowly close to zero.

    Combine something like a Korean War and possible economic sanctions, social uncertainty causing financial runs in some level, and the Unions likely in a row with the industries as the rate of growth of their remunerations is reducing, the first hints of technology replacing manpower causing the Unions to close ranks and launch strikes in the WORST moment for the US image and economy.......

    And unlike 1929, the economy isn't as linked to the US as before, and the solution that many will use... It will be to buy from alternative sources rather than US to save money and keep themselves in the green.....

    The kind of toxic cocktail that can suddenly sink the US economy if everything is in the wrong place and moment..... Or allow a politician like George Wallace, likely having become Governor in 1958 unlike OTL, to suddenly get the support of the Democrat Party and the population..... To become POTUS.....
     
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