Stuart Ireland?

[The_Persian_Cat]

Hello all,
So, yesterday was the Twelfth of July -- the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne. I was wondering -- what would have happened if James II defeated William of Orange? I think it quite unlikely for James to retake England or Scotland -- he'd already been ousted by William, who had the mandate of Parliament. But is it possible for William and James to have reached a settlement, in which James would be recognised as the independent, Catholic King of Ireland? If it were so, I'm sure there would be mutual agreements of toleration -- I doubt William would have recognised James if he was avowed to expel the Protestant Ascendancy, nor vice versa if William swore to bring down the last Catholics of Scotland and England. Maybe in a generation or two, reconciliation would be possible -- especially if William & Mary sire an heir?

What do you think?

Cheers, all!

 

[naraic]

Hello all,
So, yesterday was the Twelfth of July -- the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne.

Nope. Sorry historical nitpicking I've done a lot the last few days. The 12th isn't the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne. The 11th is but they don't celebrate it.

The 12th was originally a celebration of the Battle of Aughrim which happened 12th of July 1691 OS.

When the dating standard changed from the old standard to the new standard the Battle of Aughrim was moved to 23rd July of the New Standard.

The Battle of the Boyne happened on the 1st of July 1690 OS or 11th of July 1690 NS.

When the calendars changed they just said the Boyne was close enough to allow them to keep celebrating on the 12th even though the 11th was the anniversary.

But is it possible for William and James to have reached a settlement, in which James would be recognised as the independent, Catholic King of Ireland? If it were so,

I don't think so. Ireland was in a position that it was a threat to England and Scotland. The English saw domination over Ireland as being important to national security. They also saw it as wealth for a lot of the aristocracy who owned land in Ireland.

Parliament may have withdrawn William's mandate to be King had he bargained away territory like that.

 

[The_Persian_Cat]

Nope. Sorry historical nitpicking I've done a lot the last few days. The 12th isn't the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne. The 11th is but they don't celebrate it.

The 12th was originally a celebration of the Battle of Aughrim which happened 12th of July 1691 OS.

When the dating standard changed from the old standard to the new standard the Battle of Aughrim was moved to 23rd July of the New Standard.

The Battle of the Boyne happened on the 1st of July 1690 OS or 11th of July 1690 NS.

When the calendars changed they just said the Boyne was close enough to allow them to keep celebrating on the 12th even though the 11th was the anniversary.

I didn't know that! Cheers, thank you

Parliament may have withdrawn William's mandate to be King had he bargained away territory like that.

Would they have? I mean, William was already in a desperate war with France, and now England was too. And Parliament had just invited a king. It was already widely seen as a legitimised usurpation; it's not as though Parliament could shop around for another King. Or abolish the monarchy again, and risk civil war. Maybe William is forced to acknowledge James in Ireland, so that 1) James will renounce his English claims, and thus legitimise William's claim to England at a time of high instability, and 2) William can focus on keeping France from conquering Holland? Maybe this would be intended as a temporary ceasefire, but over time, it comes to be the new status quo? Idk. Maybe James becomes a de facto vassal of William, paying tribute in exchange for the continuation of the Stuart line. The Houses of Orange & Stuart might become like the Habsburgs and Hohenzollerns -- two houses, unalike in dignity, but alike in ambition.