I always thought that the Sovereign class was capable of everything the Galaxy was, they just focused the improvements on miniaturizing the science and exploration systems so that more combat systems could be fitted. Now the USS Vengeance from Star Trek Into Darkness, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing that isn't meant for combat (it's literally designated as a dreadnought), and would fail miserably in any such scenario, though it could probably take on a Borg Cube single-handedly based on its capabilities in the film (and its sheer size).
Star Trek: What if the Enterprise-D or another Galaxy Class ship had been flung to the Delta Qudrant
The Vengeance's automation at least was more advanced than anything else in 24th century Picard timeline (minimum crew of 1), so I get the feeling that the advancements Spock took from the future and the stuff Khan engineered made Vengeance more advanced than even 24th century Starfleet ships like the Sovereign (though we don't really get to see the automation that those ships are capable of, but the minimum crew seems to be at least a few dozen)
Doesn't matter.
Its not how powerful the ship is, its how it was designed. The Enterprise-E and her ilk were designed to fight the Borg, as well as pretty much anything else. That means it has things like phasers which rapidly shift frequencies to prevent the Borg cube from simply adapting yet again. Note that until it showed up Starfleet was getting its ass handed to it by one cube AGAIN. Sure this time they had managed to damage the damn thing, but that was almost certainly with a better prepared and larger fleet. If Picard hadn't worked out where to shoot that battle would have been a disaster. Again.
The Vengeance is not designed to fight the Borg. Like the Enterprise D it will get off a half-dozen shots, then find itself utterly powerless to stop the Borg from taking the ship apart piece by piece while they assimilate the crew and look for interesting technology.
I also find the idea that the Vengeance was as powerful as a Sovereign or Galaxy class to be a bit laughable, but given what movie it came from I won't hold that against the ship.
Exactly.
Picard and crew got flung farther than Voyager did twice by an all-powerful alien. They still managed to wonder back home by the end of that episode.
I don't include the Abramsverse, but if I did....
The Vengeance seemed to be automated a lot, besides the bridge no area seemed set up for people to use often. In my view it was probably Starfleet... or Admiral Marcus... or Section- OH WHATEVER... attempt at creating a superlarge frame that could do everything, deploy fighters, launch transport craft, set down heavy ordnance. The downside of such a craft is that while it is an all in one warship, it just draws the target to it it would need support vessels. If anything in Star Trek Beyond we see the UFP really isn't good at... swarm enemies. Add into this that in the Prime verse the UFP was using Lasers in the mid 2250s still, and not Phasers, and in the Abramsverse even the Kelvin had Phasers in the 2230s. The only way the Vengeance would win, or even draw is assuming a Borg cube from S2 of TNG, and every plus you can give the Vengeance (including Section 31 knowing about the borg early, and Temporal Cold War faction help). Clearly though the Vengeance was meant to be an all-purpose warship, the Supercarrier of the 23rd century, not an anti-borg ship.
Could a Borg Cube take it down yes, we haven't seen any one ship really take on a cube and win... I point to Q about the Borg
Not only that. They did it once in a shuttlecraft, still got back home easy, and Voyager followed up on that and they messed THAT up even. Voyager's main enemy wasn't the Kazon, Borg or Vidiians... it was bad writing.
According to the movie, Vengeance was designed to fight the Klingons, and Khan may have secretly designed it to dominate the known galaxy once he took over, but it has design features that make it suspicious. It's armor plate around the deflector dish indicate the heavy use of physical armor instead of just relying on shielding, a hallmark of ships designed after encounters with the Borg. It also has the ability to fire its phasers while in warp, a capability no other known ship has, and for which I can't see any requirement for. It makes me wonder what Admiral Marcus or Khan really designed the ship to fight against, and if 24th century Spock told them about the Borg.
Anyway, the full debate on the Vengeance vs Enterprise E is here. I highly recommend reading it.
Erm...literally every single warp-capable ship in TOS could do that. More than once the Enterprise NOT being able to go to warp was a point on which an episode hung since it wasn't moving fast enough to fight back. If it didn't happen in other shows because Picard is a horrible captain, Archer is insane, Janeway didn't care since all getting shot at meant was more misery for her crew, and Sisko...erm...didn't think of it I guess.
But, there's no reason to think armor would do much more than slow down a Borg cube. The Defiant, a ship designed specifically to kill Borg, had the most advanced ablative armor Starfleet made. The Borg took it out with ease. Voyager had ablative armor from 20 YEARS into the future after Starfleet had had decades to adapt to Borg tech. The Borg beat it inside of a day. Even if Spock did talk about the Borg AND the ship was designed with them in mind a cube will still take the Vengeance apart like a hot knife through melted butter.
Well, in ST Into Darkness, everyone acts like that capability shouldn't exist (but I suppose that's just the poor writing at work) and aren't expecting a ship to shoot them out of warp.
Voyager would have been a fantastic series if it wasn't Star Trek. The Year of Hell showed what it could be. Taking dark and difficult decisions, fighting hard, taking casualties and huge losses. What made Voyager weak was that the captain always acted to find the peaceful, but often slower, way and that a ship in its situation should have been beat-up, scarred, war-torn veteran remembering the dead, peopled with a fair percentage of crippled (I assume they can't regrow a leg), and increasingly hard-headed, bitter and viewing new aliens in that light, i.e. as potential useful sources of supply.
Personally i am quite fond of the steamrunner and would have enjoyed it if "Voyager" had been build about this type of ship.
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/steamrunner.html
Nothing overpowered such as (former) flagships or fancy such as the Intrepid. Just use the workhorse instead.
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/steamrunner.html
Nothing overpowered such as (former) flagships or fancy such as the Intrepid. Just use the workhorse instead.
The characters could just not know what they were talking about. My personal theory about why the events of Beyond weren't mentioned in the original universe is because the original crew beat the bad guy with one redshirt casualty before Kirk punched him in the face, or drove the computer crazy and no one thought it was important enough to mention, after all what's another insane Starfleet captain?
I don't think you can really blame that one it being "Star Trek." Deep Space Nine managed to include dark and difficult decisions, and leaving the captain with no good way out. The problem was Jeri Taylor couldn't write Janeway with any flaws whatsoever, so she always had to be right about everything. Which of course led to Janeway being written inconsistently, to the point she would argue one thing one week, then take another side when the same issue came up. And the total lack of coordination on the show. In one episode remember they got all the information for a region of space put into the computer, then the next episode had no information whatsoever. The only explanation IMO is that Janeway went in and wiped it all because she was bored.
And then of course Taylor was replaced by Berman and Braga...who are basically the only people worse at doing Star Trek than Abrams.
So basically, the problem was Voyager was written as TNG Season 8, only without the characters or experienced actors. And...well TNG post Season 6 kinda sucked. Some of season 7 was okay, but only one of their films was even passable, and even it wasn't that good.
But workhorses WERE used... Just think of the Equinox. Not too fun a journey, that.
The nova class was for planetary exploration. IMO it is too small to be considered a workhorse. More a "Work - Guinea pig "
Of course, in the first film, when they have problems with the warp drive and an asteroid is approaching them, Kirk gives the order to fire phasers to destroy it - but the design has changed so thats not possible. "Beeeelllaaaay thaaaaat phaaaassssseeerrrr oorrrrrddeeeerrrrr!"
The phasers draw power from the warp drive. Firing wouldn't have worked while the engines were that screwed up.
Ugh. I remember a terrible retcon about that. I forget which book it was, but the author totally missed the point of the original scene -- that Decker had a point about Kirk not knowing the Enterprise anymore, which ties into his character arc over the first four films -- for blind hero worship. Kirk, it turns out, was actually shocked because he told Starfleet's engineers what a bad idea power the phasers with the warp core was, and assumed they'd listen to him because clearly it's a bad idea, and the slooooooow moooootiiiioon scene proved him right.
But...but...that clearly wasn't the intention.
Thankfully the novels aren't canon, so the actual point of the scene still stands.
Well, considering that Voyager was something like a small cruiser while the Enterprise-D was a battleship, I could see them having a much larger impact on the Delta Quadrant. Maybe even creating a miniature Federation there. One half of the changes coming from diplomacy and the other half being sheer firepower.