Russia and Germany...

The recent discussion on future of Russia got me thinking... if one considers their earlier histories, both Russia and Germany have some uncanny similarities. The predecessors of both were formed out of a variety of small states, princedoms, republics, and whatnot, under VERY loose central authority that, at times, was strengthened temporarily by a particularly successful ruler. In effect, comparing Kievan Rus to Holy Roman Empire of about the same time seems rather apt, in terms of organization (or lack thereof), theoretical authority of Grand Prince of Kiev and that of Holy Roman Emperor (minus religious overtones), and variety of states under the de jure (but not de facto) authority of both.

So, it is not hard to posit a timeline where no single state won the battle for supremacy amongst the Russian statelets, not for a very long time, resulting in what we know as "Russia" being divided into a number of states - Moscow, Novgorod, Pskov, Vladimir-Suzdal, etc etc etc. At the same time, let's presume that a single state won the battle for supremacy in Germany by, let's say, 1500 AD or so. What would be the most likely state(s) to do so? How would history play out with early united Germany, and divided Russia (which may or may not unite at a much later point in history)?

Discuss.
 
If it wasn't for the mongols, Russia would have stayed a series of statelets. No mongols, no unified Russia.
 

HurganPL

Banned
HRE and Kievan Rus went different ways. While HRE continued its existance, and could develop on its own, Kievan Rus was destroyed by Mongol Empire. Unified Russia was created by Muscovy which was a depedency of Mongols and adopted some of their methods to enforce its rule on others. From what I know many former states of Kievan Rus opposed it very strongly and believed it to be of alien culture.
If not for the Mongols Kievan Rus would be divided due to different cultural influences-I would say Novogorod and Pskov would break apart and integrated within Baltic and Scandinavian region as it promised more development, trade and civilisational status.
 
So, let's presume no Mongols. Or maybe the Mongols do not completely destroy the Kievan Rus. And let's presume some statelet takes on the role of Moscow in Germany. Then what?
 

Faeelin

Banned
Poland-Lithuania reaches the Urals?

If we are positing a divided Germany, that seems like a probable outcome.
 
Poland-Lithuania reaches the Urals?

If we are positing a divided Germany, that seems like a probable outcome.

In Germany it would probably end up being the Hapsburgs..Have them not inherit Spain and they will focus their attn in the HRE.
P-L could very well come to prominance in the east with no unified Russian state, at least for a time...but it would be a weak political structure unless there were reforms there as well.
 
Poland-Lithuania reaches the Urals?

If we are positing a divided Germany, that seems like a probable outcome.
The union of Poland and Lithuania would be under question. That was some "side effect" of the strong Moscow.
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Saxony could be a bet if it can stop sub-dividing itself. The Elector was strong enough to protect Luther during the Reformation.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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