Rough TL Concept: Ferdinand I, King of all Italies

[Tarabas]

Hello folks! As of recently, both as a result of discussions here and personal research, I have been learning a decent amount of things about the process of Italian unification. This led to the following idea. The POD is on September 16, 1822: little Victor Emmanuel dies in the fire of his cradle. As a result, his soon-to-be-born younger brother Ferdinand (whose birth might happen a few days earlier than OTL November 15, 1822) becomes heir to Charles Albert. I chose this POD because it feels that it is the kind of POD that changes little in the grand scheme of things at first, but already in the medium run, can create a vastly different world. At first, the person who is going to be more affected is of course Charles Albert. OTL, his mental state greatly benefitted by the two good news in a few months (VE's miraculous escape from the fire and the birth of his second son). I believe that the fact that his succession is shakier TTL makes him the more eager to prove himself worthy, so I would want him to still take part in the Spanish expedition. On a less bright side, the sorrow for the death of his kid will make him die sooner than OTL. What I am planning is having young Ferdinand as King when Alt-1848 strikes in. OTL he was a pretty decent military commander, so chances are that he grows a bigger spine than his father. His OTL interest in mathematics (as a mathematician, that caught my attention) will still be around and have some interesting effects on the education in the kingdom. His young age might help in making him a romantic figure. A wild idea (I am still unsure about it, though) is to have him marry Queen Victoria. Anyway, he will marry differently than VE and than OTL. Also, the fact that OTL he was offered the crown of Sicily gave me the idea of having the Italian unification as a mixed process of personal unions under him and conquest, to give rise to a Federal Italy, leading to the half joke of being king "of all Italies" (this process will not end with him, though). His myth will be consecrated by his death at 33 in 1855, as OTL (he is unlikely to last long as his personal health is unlikely to be better than OTL). So the new Kingdom(s) will have to face a difficult regency. Here is where I plan for Cavour to take over and reign in all but name. What I like about this idea is that, with the exception of VE, the protagonists of the Italian unification will be pretty much the same, although with different timings and possibly, slightly different roles. The overall tone will be bittersweet: TTL Italy will not become a superpower (although will be better off than OTL on the whole) and will have to face a lot of challenges.
That being said, what do you guys think? I would really appreciate your help, criticism, feedback, and knowledge. I am no historian and no writer, but I wouls like to tackle this challenge of writing a TL, learning things in the process, and have fun, too.

 

[Tarabas]

Any comments? I was thinking on the butterfly net of this specific POD, I am pretty confident that the first ten years of TTL should be pretty similar to OTL, except for a few people (remarkably, Ferdinand and CA). What do you guys think?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

wild idea (I am still unsure about it, though) is to have him marry Queen Victoria.

Victoria is out of the question. His marriage might be determined by the situation in Italy. Maybe Augusta of Tuscany (OTL Princess Leopold of Bavaria) or a Portuguese infanta if he's of a liberal bent. If he's more conservative, maybe a princess of Naples or an Austrian archduchess. Hell, Nikolai I offered Olga Nikolaïevna for Carlo Alberto/Vittorio Emanuele II, so its up to you...really

 

[Tarabas]

Victoria is out of the question. His marriage might be determined by the situation in Italy. Maybe Augusta of Tuscany (OTL Princess Leopold of Bavaria) or a Portuguese infanta if he's of a liberal bent. If he's more conservative, maybe a princess of Naples or an Austrian archduchess. Hell, Nikolai I offered Olga Nikolaïevna for Carlo Alberto/Vittorio Emanuele II, so its up to you...really

Yes, I know Victoria was bordering ASB but in a recent discussion it turned out that VE went to London in order to "woo" her, so it was a fun thought. Now, a Portuguese match is something I had not considered but is definitely interesting, thanks a lot!. Wasn't Olga proposed as an option to Ferdinand? I have read that he fell in love with the girl in Sicily and deeply insisted with his father to reach an agreement, which was barred by religion (she would not convert to Catholicism but CA had that as a condicio sine qua non).

What do you think of the rest of the scenario? Is it interesting?

 

[Yanez de Gomera]

It is a very interesting scenario! King of All Italies though sounds weird because even as a "geigraphical expression" Italy was never referred to in the plural, while with Russia yoh have the Kievan Rus, Novgorod Rus, Little Russian White Russia etc.


A more realistic name showing at the same time the more federal approach to unification would be "Re degli Italiani" (King of the Italians), echoing Belgium.

I think you can cast a pretty solid butterfly net while he grows up, unless you want to do something drastic like Carlo Alberto killing himself and Ferdinando being born posthumously.

I think suicide would not be entirely out of question as VE would die in the darkest moment of CA's life, as he was disgraced after the 1821 events and in semi-exile in Tuscany.

Or he could gloriously die at Trocadero.


This means a regency already in 1830 when Carlo Felice died iotl, which could be rather problematic so I would probably avoid it if the TL also has a better Savoyard performance in 1848 as an objective.


I have no idea about marriage, but I was thinking that his mathematical bent migjt lead him to lobby his father for a better funded corps of engineers. Appartently (reading from Carlo Cattaneo's The Insurrection of Milan) the Sardinian army had basically 0 military maps of Lombardy and this caused confusion and delays in the first key days of the 1848 campaign, while there could have been a possibility, albeit slim, to move fast enough to catch Radetzky as he retreated from Milan, before he could hole up in the Quadrilatero.

 

[Tarabas]

It is a very interesting scenario! King of All Italies though sounds weird because even as a "geigraphical expression" Italy was never referred to in the plural, while with Russia yoh have the Kievan Rus, Novgorod Rus, Little Russian White Russia etc.


A more realistic name showing at the same time the more federal approach to unification would be "Re degli Italiani" (King of the Italians), echoing Belgium.

I think you can cast a pretty solid butterfly net while he grows up, unless you want to do something drastic like Carlo Alberto killing himself and Ferdinando being born posthumously.

I think suicide would not be entirely out of question as VE would die in the darkest moment of CA's life, as he was disgraced after the 1821 events and in semi-exile in Tuscany.

Or he could gloriously die at Trocadero.


This means a regency already in 1830 when Carlo Felice died iotl, which could be rather problematic so I would probably avoid it if the TL also has a better Savoyard performance in 1848 as an objective.


I have no idea about marriage, but I was thinking that his mathematical bent migjt lead him to lobby his father for a better funded corps of engineers. Appartently (reading from Carlo Cattaneo's The Insurrection of Milan) the Sardinian army had basically 0 military maps of Lombardy and this caused confusion and delays in the first key days of the 1848 campaign, while there could have been a possibility, albeit slim, to move fast enough to catch Radetzky as he retreated from Milan, before he could hole up in the Quadrilatero.

Thanks for the feedback! The "King of All Italies" was mostly a joke inspired by the proposed match with Olga, and a reflection about Italy about the present day (how "Italie" have we got?). "Re degli Italiani" has a really nice ring to it, I think I will adopt it. It has also a Napoleonic flavor. I was thinking the same, a robust butterfly net. A regency is tricky, and I do not even know who might be up for the job. I think that if CA does not commit suicide, he will still go to Spain. Maybe his religious attitude will be affected, with a darker sense of doom. What I definitely want is to die sooner in order to have Ferdinand in charge (or, more dramatically, CA starting the war and dying on the field, with Ferdinand becoming king on the battlefield). I am also planning for him to have a more serious impact on the organization of the Army. Nothing drastic (Sardinia will not really become a sort of Southern Prussia) but the army will be in slightly better shape.

What makes the Italian Unification so interesting to me (from the standpoint of AH) is that is you have either thing going incredibly well or incredibly poor, and a few changes in the First and the Third war (or, say, a Two-Sicilian ship to stumble upon the Mille while in their way from Quarto) could have led to a dramatically different unification.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Yes, I know Victoria was bordering ASB but in a recent discussion it turned out that VE went to London in order to "woo" her, so it was a fun thought.

So did Christian IX of Denmark and Alexander II of Russia. And there was a later attempt to wed Mary of Cambridge off to the Savoyards as well IIRC, but Mary likewise refused to convert.

A Victoria-VEII match could be FUN but I don't see anyone in London or Turin going for it.

What do you think of the rest of the scenario? Is it interesting?

Definitely. Especially if it keeps Italy a monarchy up to the present.

 

[Tarabas]

So did Christian IX of Denmark and Alexander II of Russia. And there was a later attempt to wed Mary of Cambridge off to the Savoyards as well IIRC, but Mary likewise refused to convert.

A Victoria-VEII match could be FUN but I don't see anyone in London or Turin going for it.



Definitely. Especially if it keeps Italy a monarchy up to the present.

Glad you like it. One of the long-term goals of the timeline is to have a successful monarchical Italy. I am still laying down a rough roadmap but I would like to cover at least 100 years with the TL.

 

[Tarabas]

So, apologies for doing this after such a long time (I genuinely thought I had done this ages ago). I would like to thank everybody that contributed to this discussion: this concept eventually evolved into a TL, which went soon on hiatus, and now is back (hopefully) to stay. Here is the link, should anyone be interested in reading it:

Primavera d'Italia: War, Love and Revolution

Introductory chapter

www.alternatehistory.com