Reversed Racism

Deleted member 5719

Conditions were extremely tough, males were usually castrated for eg. (which als explains why they never had much of a legacy, contrary to the slaves in european dominated lands), the slaves were worked to death (there was always more where they came from after all).

Oooooohhh, Abdul Hadi Pasha, come get him!

Slaves in North Africa weren't usually castrated, for the very good reason that they ran a very high chance of dieing of infection after the operation. Castration was much more common among pre-pubescent boys, as they survived more easily, and it was also common in Italy.

Many slave raids were as much kidnappings as anything else, with ransoms paid by consortiums of nobles/merchants and Christian brotherhoods. Often, slaves became free upon converting to Islam, and served their new masters fiercey, being as they were executed upon being captured by Christians.

As for leaving no trace, well the women certainly had children in Muslim lands, and converts to Islam almost always took a local wife. Many people in North Africa are indistinguishable from Europeans (although transmediterranean migration has existed since the neolithic, so this is nothing new).
 
White people would make rubbish slaves, black people are physically fitter, faster and stronger, they can jump higher than white people too.You can't trust white people either, they're always trying to take what isn't theirs. In OTL, who was it doing all the invading, conquering and slaughtering of innocents? Caucasians!
White people never became slaves because they're useless milky bastards.

:)
What color is your skin, my friend? 'Cause this is either really bad humor or racism full stop.
 

Deleted member 5719

What color is your skin, my friend? 'Cause this is either really bad humor or racism full stop.

Calm it, it's a joke coz he put smiley face.

But then again, maybe I'm lying.

Don't trust whitey. ;)
 
What color is your skin, my friend? 'Cause this is either really bad humor or racism full stop.

Why does it matter what colour my skin is? Would it/should it make a difference?

And it is neither bad humour or racism. You could accuse it of being poor humour, but my humour isn't evil. (Abdul taught me that!)
And if you're going to accuse me of racism, who is it against?

:)
 
Why does it matter what colour my skin is? Would it/should it make a difference?

And it is neither bad humour or racism. You could accuse it of being poor humour, but my humour isn't evil. (Abdul taught me that!)
And if you're going to accuse me of racism, who is it against?

:)
Uhhh.......................................................
STOP USING LOGIC AND REASON!!!!!!!!!!
 
Not just "some", basically the entire economy of the Barbary coast (roughly current day Algeria and Tunisia) was based on piracy and slave-trafficking. The slaves were white europeans and black africans from the sub-saharian zone. Conditions were extremely tough, males were usually castrated for eg. (which als explains why they never had much of a legacy, contrary to the slaves in european dominated lands), the slaves were worked to death (there was always more where they came from after all).
Molière's play Le bourgeois gentilhomme alludes to "turkish" (that is, barbaresque) piracy and slaving ; also the french warfleet bombed Alger for that reason during Louis XIV's reign. Later, the young United States's navy did the same in 1812 (IIRC), and finally France conquered what became later Algeria, ending the piracy for good

African/Arab slavery in general was suppressed by European colonisation, yet it went on as far as the 20th century. One could argue it's never really stopped.

This is a pretty serious mischaracterization of both the nature of the Barbary States and slavery therein.

While there was certainly some traditional piracy (which was, BTW, exactly same as what the Knights of Malta were doing), bythe late 18th c it was more or less a protection racket, where countries engaging in coastal shipping had to pay "tolls" to pass along the coast. Once the Napoleonic Wars were over, the growing imbalance of military power and technology was becoming apparent and the Powers decided there would be no more "tolls" - and Maltese pirates were also out of business at this point.

Males were almost never castrated, which was strictly against Islamic law. This was done in pagan Africa. Conditions were not comparatively tough for slaves, which were used primarily as domestics, lalthough in early times men were often used as galley slaves, but while their lot was harder, they were entitled to a share of booty.

Slavery in Islamic society does not entail any social disability, i.e. your status was largely dependent upon who owned you. Manumission was common, as was marriage into the owner's family (which obviously involved being freed). A white American would rather chew his own balls off than marry his daughter to one of his slaves - this was not true in the Islamic world, where this was common.

This isn't an apology for Islamic slavery - the process of becoming a slave was still horrible, and loss of freedom is a crapshoot - you may end up with a kindly master, but you could also get a psychopath. In the Barbary States, slaves would be crammed in ships and transported across the Med, a terrible and often deadly experience - again, not as bad as Atlantic transit, and slaves do have rights in Islamic law.

Neither 18th c plays or Wikipedia are very good references for this subject.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Abdul is correct, Muslim didn't castrate males, one of the primary sources of eunuchs was Ethiopia, where slaves was castrated before they were send north usual by monks, it was one the reason that Ethiopia was a major centre of the slave trade, it also why most eunuchs in the westen Muslim world was most often Blacks (2/3-3/4 of the eunuchs in the Ottoman sultan service was Blacks). Slave was also split in White (all causasians) and Black slaves, White slave usual ended up in adminstration, the army or as pleasure slaves, while Black slaves ended up in more common work (plantages, farms etc.).
 
Abdul, the reference was to a 17th century play :rolleyes:
Joke aside, Wikipedia's not the best of sources, I agree, but it wasn't mine either on this subject. I'd rather point to this book.
Quoting works done and published in French would be slightly awkward on an English-speaking forum.
Anyway, I don't intend to turn this thread into a political debate on the respective merits of Christians or Muslim slave-owners or whether Muslim slavery was kindler or gentler.

The whole subject is unfortunately heavily mined :cool:
 
"Reverse racism" is just a term for when the opposite group is doing the discriminating. It's typically used with complaints for things like affirmative action.

I think there's some confusion over racism the belief vs racism the institutions.

When it comes to beliefs, racism is racism is etc...

But when it comes to institutions you can discuss supposed "reverse racism". (I say supposed since at least in the US, it exists far more in public imagination than in reality.)

For something like AA, it's not the opposite groups doing the alleged discrimination. It's society as a whole that made the decision. AA was begun by a conservative white Republican male, Richard Nixon.

And AA benefits mostly whites, namely educated white females.
 
Abdul, the reference was to a 17th century play :rolleyes:
Joke aside, Wikipedia's not the best of sources, I agree, but it wasn't mine either on this subject. I'd rather point to this book.
Quoting works done and published in French would be slightly awkward on an English-speaking forum.
Anyway, I don't intend to turn this thread into a political debate on the respective merits of Christians or Muslim slave-owners or whether Muslim slavery was kindler or gentler.

The whole subject is unfortunately heavily mined :cool:

My point was that literary sources from 17th c Europe, while valuable for what they say about that time and place, are not accurate about Barbary pirates. I love Mozart, and Die Entführung aus dem Serail, but it's not a very valuable source for what Ottoman harems were like.

I've read that book, BTW, and it doesn't really resemble the commentary in the reviews section on Amazon.

American plantation slavery was worse than Islamic slavery, period. Not just in terms of numbers, but because it was race-based, and considered Blacks as inferior beings. Islamic slavery doesn't, and religiously, slaves are equal to the free (for instance, slaves can be Imams and lead the free in prayer).

Once you decide a race is inferior, and suitable only for drudgery, all manner of bad results. If you consider a slave part of your household, and a potential marriage partner for your family members, you're probably providing better treatment.

Again, becoming a slave is a horrible experience either way, and all forms of it are wrong.
 
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