Reds fanfic

[The_Red_Star_Rising]

That could mean that the Cold War might over-last the FBU, because when it colapses the GiC could continue to exist.

You could see western europe becoming the modern OTL Russia to a much more hostile OTL modern PRC. While at one point the former was calling the shots, now there's no question who has more influence over the world's affairs.

In a fit of historical irony, western Europe might end up as India's servants as the old Lion is replaced by a much fresher Tiger on the world stage. One that can probably present a much more marketable image to Africa, the middle east, and south-east Asia. Replacing the older style of colonialism with its more modern, more sinister counterpart.

You may not be directly ruled by Indian overlords seating a governor general who looms over your parliament like a hawk, but you're buying Indian brands and Indian products and are working for a company with its majority shares held by Indians and when you sit down to unwind and watch a movie, it's the latest big budget hit from bollywood.

 

[tuxer]

You could see western europe becoming the modern OTL Russia to a much more hostile OTL modern PRC. While at one point the former was calling the shots, now there's no question who has more influence over the world's affairs.

In a fit of historical irony, western Europe might end up as India's servants as the old Lion is replaced by a much fresher Tiger on the world stage. One that can probably present a much more marketable image to Africa, the middle east, and south-east Asia. Replacing the older style of colonialism with its more modern, more sinister counterpart.

You may not be directly ruled by Indian overlords seating a governor general who looms over your parliament like a hawk, but you're buying Indian brands and Indian products and are working for a company with its majority shares held by Indians and when you sit down to unwind and watch a movie, it's the latest big budget hit from bollywood.

Yeah, that's a very strongly possibility. That also means that the Cold War may last well into the 2050s, "ending" with India implementing economic reforms in order to keep up with the new global order but still being authoritarian - not as authoritarian as the PRC but still repressive. TTL's India would not have a Great Firewall but it would not be pluralist democracy either.

 

[The_Red_Star_Rising]

Yeah, that's a very strongly possibility. That also means that the Cold War may last well into the 2050s, "ending" with India implementing economic reforms in order to keep up with the new global order but still being authoritarian - not as authoritarian as the PRC but still repressive. TTL's India would not have a Great Firewall but it would not be pluralist democracy either.

Just imagine a cranky old British man mopping the floors for a super rich Indian tycoon with this huge, garish palace in London while the old man mumbles about the good old days. Now picture the dawning realization that now, Britain is essentially India's colony. (Now imagine Indiaball from polandball laughing faintly in the distance)

 

[tuxer]

Just imagine a cranky old British man mopping the floors for a super rich Indian tycoon with this huge, garish palace in London while the old man mumbles about the good old days. Now picture the dawning realization that now, Britain is essentially India's colony. (Now imagine Indiaball from polandball laughing faintly in the distance)

That's actually very funny.

 

[Miss Teri]

Iran has the population of a large european country and less than 5% of the population of the British Raj. It's hardly "giant."

Also, it'd be an island with roughly similar population to the above three states combined going by the census numbers of Bangladesh, India, Pakisan, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, and Bhutan today. With Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, the Arabian states, New Zealand, and the Phillipines in the mix you've got an asian bloc that can more or less take care of itself.

In fact; the GiC may outgrow the FBU and the other members of the WEU as the heart of capital through nothing more than simple numbers once western europe's advantages in development are evened out. Much like how China is gradually supplanting America in OTL as Capital's center as the HDI gap closes. Essentially the Portugal-Brazil problem playing itself out again; where the colony due to its vastly greater size ends up supplanting the mother country as the center of power.

The student becomes the master so to speak.

Calling it "the remaining bastion of capitalism in a Red sea" was probably a mischaracterization. The point I was trying to make was that the Hindutva-ruled Congress Party was in power only to keep India the shining member of the capitalist sphere.

 

[Ravenclaw]

I don't really see the Red Sea as being in danger of falling to communism any sooner than the FBU proper. Trying to exert influence in the mediterranean with the domineering influence of western europe when the Soviets are easily bottled up in the dardanelles and America's as far away as it is challenging enough when it's just Palestine, Lebanon and Syria. Trying to topple the Sauds as long as the money flows is probably out of the question based on historical precedence. The edge of the Peninsula were outright British colonies to begin with and people tend not to rebel when times are good, and with oil money being the economic instant win condition it is when prices are high; the money should flow for a good while. Particularly with a developing India that's going to want oil.

Arabia could easily deflect communist criticism with the combined cloaks of religious fundamentalism and oil economic prosperity well into the 2000s. And also, the idea that Western Europe and India would; in a million years; let the Suez be taken by anyone hostile would be as ridiculous as America letting someone conquer the Panama. Even if it means threatening to drop nuclear weapons on anyone who tries to seize it. And the two have much less reason to back down in a game of nuclear chicken. Which could very well be one of the major cold war defeats of the Internationale as the UASR and USSR end up blinking first and letting egypt remain in capitalist hands.

Actually, IIRC, Socialist Palestine includes the Sinai, so at least one side of the Suez canal is likely Red-controlled. I imagine that present-day Palestine and Egypt have an unspoken agreement of free use of the canal (especially if the current Egyptian government owes its existence to the Palestine-backed coup in the 70s).

I wonder if Palestine would have something akin to the Law of Return, allowing in Jews from anywhere in the world. The main obstacle to this I can see would be Arab fears of becoming a minority.

I'm still thinking about a Jewish Autonomous Socialist Republic in the UASR. If not in Sitka (a latke if you get the reference ), I imagine it being somewhere relatively unpopulated in upstate New York--possibly Orange County (the OTL site of Kiryas Joel). There might be power struggles within the JASR between secular and religious leadership, and I foresee at least a few all-Jewish kibbutzim being established.

 

[The_Red_Star_Rising]

Actually, IIRC, Socialist Palestine includes the Sinai, so at least one side of the Suez canal is likely Red-controlled. I imagine that present-day Palestine and Egypt have an unspoken agreement of free use of the canal (especially if the current Egyptian government owes its existence to the Palestine-backed coup in the 70s).

There hasn't been a map that's ever said such a thing to my knowledge. I mean, I regularly reread all four threads and I've not found anything mentioning Palestine's territories.

Also any attempted coup is probably going to get crushed by massive foreign army bases and the threat of nuclear force if they step so much as one foot into the Suez zone. The Suez is too strategically important to allow to slip from the grasp of the GiC or WEU under any circumstances, even if they have to make the countries surrounding it glow.

 

[Miss Teri]

There hasn't been a map that's ever said such a thing to my knowledge. I mean, I regularly reread all four threads and I've not found anything mentioning Palestine's territories.

Also any attempted coup is probably going to get crushed by massive foreign army bases and the threat of nuclear force if they step so much as one foot into the Suez zone. The Suez is too strategically important to allow to slip from the grasp of the GiC or WEU under any circumstances, even if they have to make the countries surrounding it glow.

It was on the Alternate Political parties thread.

 

[Miss Teri]

More of the Users that I use in fake discussion (because I'm bored)

Username: GreenAvenger
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Sexuality: Gay
Ethnicity: African
Religion: Buddhist
Place of Birth: Du Bois, African FNR, UASR
Currently Residing: Portland, Oregon SR
Political Affiliation: Social Ecology Union
Occupation: Artist/Writer
Favorite AH work: The California Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson and Wild Cards by George RR Martin, et al.
Favorite Book: The Long Struggle by Toni Morrison
Favorite Film: John Brown's War*
Favorite TV: Wild Kingdom
Favorite Music: Stevie Wonder
Favorite Game: Fallout 2
Favorite Art:her hobbies: Gardening, painting, Hiking, Dog breeding, writing short stories, Comic collecting
Likes: Nature, The New Yorker, Comic books, Fallout
Dislikes: Use of fossil fuels, cruelty to animals, cars
Favorite quote:" I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."
-Henry David Thoreau
Demeanor: Self righteous
AH works on the board:
"Age of Cold": Very dystopic TL, where the "Little Ice Age" of the early Middle Ages ends up becoming a full on Ice Age, causing significant climate change during this period. While subtle at first, by 1492, it becomes more apparent. The Mediterranean grows smaller, and harvests throughout Europe fail. This causes riots against various forms of hierarchy in Europe, including the various monarchies and the Catholic Church. Eventually, a large exodus occurs for Europeans to the now fertile Sahara, where tensions increase between the Europeans and the local Muslim population, which leads to several wars over resources. Noted for its environmental undertones, and dark, cynical tone.


Username: AVeryTrueDemocrat
Age: 17
Gender: Female
Sexuality: Bi-Sexual
Ethnicity:Swedish
Religion: Trinidadian
Place of Birth: St.Paul, Commune of Twin Cities, UASR
Location: St.Paul, Commune of the Twin Cities, UASR
Political Affiliation: Democratic Farmer Labor Party
Occupation: High School Student
Favorite AH work: 1933 by Newt Gingrich
Favorite Book: Peanuts by Charles M. Schulz
Favorite Film: Pan's Labyrinth
Favorite TV:Mystery Science Theater 3000
Favorite Music: David Jones **
Favorite Game: Super Mario Bros. (1985)
Favorite Art:Snoopy's Day (a 1969 Peanuts strip about the various things Snoopy does during a typical day)
Other hobbies: Chess, school politics, gaming, reading, history club
Likes: Religious History,Mystery Science Theater 3000, tabletop RPG, video games
Dislikes: Militarism, Statism, impatience, bigotry, lack of compassion
Favorite quote: "There are three kinds of Lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics."- Commonly attributed to Mark Twain.
Demeanor: Calm, tomboyish
AH works on the board:
"A Five Year Journey"- An alternate look into the making of Star Trek, where Robert Heinlein never joins the production. It explores the changes as a result of a Roddenberry dominated production, and the repercussions for American popular culture, and eventually politics, in the 60's and 70's.

Username: SkaelingKing
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Sexuality: Straight
Ethnicity: Norwegian
Religion: Atheist (raised Evangelical Lutheran)
Place of Birth: Trondheim, Norway
Currently Residing: Trondheim, Norway
Political Affiliation: Apolitical
Class: Affluent
Occupation: Engineering student, Norwegian University of Science and Technology
Favorite AH work:A Different Flesh by Harry Turtledove
Favorite Book: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Favorite Film: Trollhunters
Favorite TV: Blackadder
Favorite Music: Edvard Grieg
Favorite Game:Europa Universalis
Favorite Art:Thor's Fight with the Giants by Mårten Eskil Winge,
Other hobbies: Football, building model planes, violin,
Likes: Classical music, computer games, Indian food, Norse mythology, fantasy,
Dislikes: Overly political discussion, capitalism, communism, socialism, human interaction
Favorite quote: "Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans."
- Douglas Adams
Demeanor: Curmudgeonly
AH works on the board:
"Onward!"- A look into an alternate Quebecois Crisis, which eventually leads to WWIII, and nuclear winter. It follows several survivors, as they struggle to comprehend what had happened, and survive in a collapsed society. Throughout, there is implicit criticism of the Cold War, and all the philosophies involved, as well as human nature in general. Norway gets special attention.

"Vinland Rising"- What the title reads; Vinland ends up more successful, and extends into what would become Canada. As a result, a Norse empire of sorts forms, and becomes a major power in the world.

---------------------
UPDATE: Annotations:

*1957 film starring Sydney Poitier and Paul Robeson as slaves fighting with Charlton Heston's John Brown during the Harper's Ferry raid.
** David Bowie

 

[The_Red_Star_Rising]

It was on the Alternate Political parties thread.

Man that data is old as balls. I wouldn't rely on it, especially when it was written with a rather ah...grievous overestimation of Germany's ability to project power into the middle east while still fighting in the USSR.

 

[Miss Teri]

Inspired by Sci-Fi's (once again, not spelling it the other way) Twilight Zone marathon.
Revolutionary Road
Episode of Beyond the Horizon
Written and Directed by Rod Serling
Originally aired May 1st, 1965

The year is 1933. The man is Private Martin J. Brown, of the Worker's and Farmer's Revolutionary Army. A New Jersey farmboy called to his proletariatian duty, to fight for the working class, along with his childhood friend John Hersch. Despite this, he is beginning to doubt his belief in his duty, in the very idea of a revolution. However, he will soon undertake a journey, where he will see the value of this war, and see the inherent possibilities it holds, beyond the horizon

----------------

Friends Marty and Johnny are sitting in a trench, exchanging banter and drinking, while holding their guns. Marty expresses his doubts about the very idea of the revolution, and whether it is worth the lives lost. Johnny tries to convince him of the validity of their mission. An explosion happens behind them, forcing them into battle. Johnny is injured protecting Marty. Marty flees the scene, as Red and Fascist forces combat each other. He falls, and passes out.

When he awakes, he finds himself in an open field, surrounded by statues of soldiers. Several passerbys mistake him for a reenacter. He moves out of the park to reveal that it was a famous park commemorating a famed battle during the Civil War. He goes to a nearby newsstand, and learns that he is in the middle of Newark, and the year is 1965. He explores the local area, disturbed by change in architecture, in public transportation, and in the fact that people are nude on the streets. He is overwhelmed. And he sees a strange flag being flown. He stumbles into a bar, where he asks for a beer. There he learns that socialism has spread throughout the globe with American help, and that America is still a functioning democracy with a high standard of living. While waiting, he sees a newspaper commemorating a local war hero. He is shocked to see it was his friend Johnny. He tries to find him, but his strange behavior attracts local police.
At the interrogation, police claim that records show that Martin Brown died in battle on April 3rd, 1933. As they talk about Johnny, Marty learns that Johnny went on to become a major war hero, ultimately helping beat the fascist forces. after the war, he married someone, and had a family. He has a realization that he was meant to save him on the battlefield,. So, Marty escapes, and heads back to the park, where he hides from police, and slowly drifts off to sleep, and awakes in the battle. He rushes back, and sacrifices himself by getting shot to save Johnny from further harm.

Meanwhile, in 1965, an officer at the interrogation is at the commemoration of John Hersch, and when they are alone, the officer asks about Marty. John reminisces about their time during the Civil War, as the closing narration voices-over.
---------

"Martin Brown, private in the Worker's and Farmer's Revolutionary Army. Died April 3rd, 1933. Sacrificing his life in the fight against fascism. Realizing a vision of a nation that could be. A matyr, beyond the horizon.

 

[Ravenclaw]

I made a map of Spain, according to IP and Jello's guidelines.

 

[Miss Teri]

I made a map of Spain, according to IP and Jello's guidelines.

Is that formally established now?

 

[Ravenclaw]

Is that formally established now?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here's the relevant quote:

Germany is divided along the Rhine, mostly. The FBU sponsors a Grand Duchy of the Rhineland, the Kingdom of the Piedmont, and a Kingdom of Asturias (Pyrennes borderland of Catalonia + Pyrennes Aragon + La Rioja + Navarre + Basque Country + Galicia + Asturias + Cantabria + northern third of Castile and Leon) with a german dynastic pretender, the Savoyard heir, and Juan de Borbon (with Generalisimo Franco as military caudillo and President of the Government) respectively. Asturias, Piedmont, Rhineland, Belgium, Netherlands all as pro-FBU buffer states and allies.

 

[Miss Teri]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here's the relevant quote:

I know, I quoted that line myself, but apparently (even though it was only a year old) that quote is now outdated, for some reason.

 

[The_Red_Star_Rising]

I know, I quoted that line myself, but apparently (even though it was only a year old) that quote is now outdated, for some reason.

Well, I've decided to collaborate with Jello herself and I have a very different view of how the Iberian war would go down than IP does.

It'd mostly be the British and Portuguese curbstomping the nationalists with ease and fighting maybe a single corps of Germans and some more Italians after the Germans and Italians crush the CNT-FAI rump state with similar ease and then a long slog through the Pyranees before the second battle for France. Neither of the spanish states would really have the army to compete with the first rate militaries of Europe in essentially any capacity. They're too poorly equipped, they're not well trained enough, and the war torn burnt out husk of Spain just doesn't have the industrial capacity to resist Britain/Portugal or Italy/Germany pushing into it for long.

Iberia is more likely to have some small socialist states that decided not to stay with Spain in post-war votes, but most people are more likely to end up going for the political center after just getting tired with the left and right's warring over their country for a good few years. In essence, both the Falangists and the CNT-FAI ultimately lose the war for Spain's soul to the Republic.

These socialist states are rather likely to be pretty poor due to political and economic isolation and ease of blockade and their small size making autarky very unworkable. Either that or they go from socialist to "socialist".

 

[Miss Teri]

Well, I've decided to collaborate with Jello herself and I have a very different view of how the Iberian war would go down than IP does.

It'd mostly be the British and Portuguese curbstomping the nationalists with ease and fighting maybe a single corps of Germans and some more Italians after the Germans and Italians crush the CNT-FAI rump state with similar ease and then a long slog through the Pyranees before the second battle for France. Neither of the spanish states would really have the army to compete with the first rate militaries of Europe in essentially any capacity. They're too poorly equipped, they're not well trained enough, and the war torn burnt out husk of Spain just doesn't have the industrial capacity to resist Britain/Portugal or Italy/Germany pushing into it for long.

Iberia is more likely to have some small socialist states that decided not to stay with Spain in post-war votes, but most people are more likely to end up going for the political center after just getting tired with the left and right's warring over their country for a good few years. In essence, both the Falangists and the CNT-FAI ultimately lose the war for Spain's soul to the Republic.

These socialist states are rather likely to be pretty poor due to political and economic isolation and ease of blockade and their small size making autarky very unworkable. Either that or they go from socialist to "socialist".

So, what would these states be?

 

[The_Red_Star_Rising]

So, what would these states be?

Presumably in the basque and catalonian regions as that's where socialist support is strongest. These however, are also likely to suffer hardest from the attentions of the Einsatzgruppen and the "labour recruitment" gangs. After all, with so many German and Italian men at war and fascism having a very "stay in the kitchen" viewpoint of gender roles, somebody needs to man the factories*.

*Livable salaries, workplace benefits, work station safety, and meals not guaranteed.

 

[Miss Teri]

Presumably in the basque and catalonian regions as that's where socialist support is strongest. These however, are also likely to suffer hardest from the attentions of the Einsatzgruppen and the "labour recruitment" gangs. After all, with so many German and Italian men at war and fascism having a very "stay in the kitchen" viewpoint of gender roles, somebody needs to man the factories*.

*Livable salaries, workplace benefits, work station safety, and meals not guaranteed.

Okay. Actually another question. When you said collaborated with Jello, did you mean you asked her?

 

[GrasshopperKing]

More of the Users that I use in fake discussion (because I'm bored)
Religion: Trinidadian

What's that?

Edit: I honestly wasn't trying to be a smartass. I forgot about the Trinitarian Church.