Reds fanfic

Okay. Actually another question. When you said collaborated with Jello, did you mean you asked her?

And she agreed to this? Socialist states? Can't they remain together? Isn't the Spanish Civil War intensified the bonds between the Spanish peoples enough that they see the benefits of remaining together rather than going separate ways? I don't think FBU pressure is enough to keep Red Spain apart.

This entire Spain scenario is something I really don't understand. I guess this is the Spanish front of World War II. Will the UASR agree to this new arrangement in Spain beyond the terms of the League of Nations armistice, whose borders seems to be the ones IP described? I remember that the Spanish communist state is a UASR client. Will the UASR agree to a postwar reduction of the borders in favor of a restored FBU supported Spanish Republic? In exchange for what? I guess that's the important issue.

And why will this postwar state remain poor? How long will it remain poor? Berlin, despite geographic isolation in OTL Cold War, is not poor. If Italy became Red, then there is a way for goods and services to go to Red Spain. This is not Cuba OTL with a far away sponsor from another continent and across enemy territory. I don't think an embargo of Red Spain can remain long, if it happens. Red Italy can eased the situation. Even with the US embargo OTL, with the continued existence of the USSR, Cuba remained fine comparatively speaking than now, thanks to Soviet energy resources being imported there.

Another problem is that you can't make this situation work in Spain, if you can't understand that this is all related to other things around the world. But I'm sure you know that. The FBU and the Comintern are agreeing during the war to divide the world between themselves. The Comintern is agreeing for a a postwar plebiscite that the FBU can manipulate and Spain is going to be an intense Cold War hotspot, true. But the Comintern will only say yes to this in exchange of what? In what part of the world? What arrangement? This semi-super state doesn't really have a choice in the matter?

I guess I just don't understand this entire concern about a nearby Spanish communist state as a total nuisance. In fact, it's rather useful for conservative propagandists and Spain doesn't have much to give for the FBU system anyway compared to the colonies.
 
And she agreed to this? Socialist states? Can't they remain together? Isn't the Spanish Civil War intensified the bonds between the Spanish peoples enough that they see the benefits of remaining together rather than going separate ways? I don't think FBU pressure is enough to keep Red Spain apart.

This entire Spain scenario is something I really don't understand. I guess this is the Spanish front of World War II. Will the UASR agree to this new arrangement in Spain beyond the terms of the League of Nations armistice, whose borders seems to be the ones IP described? I remember that the Spanish communist state is a UASR client. Will the UASR agree to a postwar reduction of the borders in favor of a restored FBU supported Spanish Republic? In exchange for what? I guess that's the important issue.

And why will this postwar state remain poor? How long will it remain poor? Berlin, despite geographic isolation in OTL Cold War, is not poor. If Italy became Red, then there is a way for goods and services to go to Red Spain. This is not Cuba OTL with a far away sponsor from another continent and across enemy territory. I don't think an embargo of Red Spain can remain long, if it happens. Red Italy can eased the situation. Even with the US embargo OTL, with the continued existence of the USSR, Cuba remained fine comparatively speaking than now, thanks to Soviet energy resources being imported there.

Another problem is that you can't make this situation work in Spain, if you can't understand that this is all related to other things around the world. But I'm sure you know that. The FBU and the Comintern are agreeing during the war to divide the world between themselves. The Comintern is agreeing for a a postwar plebiscite that the FBU can manipulate and Spain is going to be an intense Cold War hotspot, true. But the Comintern will only say yes to this in exchange of what? In what part of the world? What arrangement? This semi-super state doesn't really have a choice in the matter?

I guess I just don't understand this entire concern about a nearby Spanish communist state as a total nuisance. In fact, it's rather useful for conservative propagandists and Spain doesn't have much to give for the FBU system anyway compared to the colonies.

What was wrong with the IP arrangement exactly?
 
What was wrong with the IP arrangement exactly?

It's kind of nonsensical. Spain is far more likely to be in one camp or the other, probably the capitalist one given how close they are and the fact the Commintern liberating Spain probably means them liberating France. Which breaks the plot.
 
It's kind of nonsensical. Spain is far more likely to be in one camp or the other, probably the capitalist one given how close they are and the fact the Commintern liberating Spain probably means them liberating France. Which breaks the plot.

Why? Spain is a country with various languages within it, and it's not impossible that it would be split up along different lines. That's the arrangement at the moment in the TL, as far as I could tell. The Falangists and Republicans hold different parts of the country in stalemate. (Can't remember where, but that's the last it was mentioned.)
 
Like honestly, forget the cold war for a while, that's stuff we're not even going to get to for a very long time, potentially even years given how little we've advanced into WWII since the third thread began in 2013. This is about the war, and simple logistical military realities dictate that the Iberian peninsular campaign is almost certainly going to be an Anglo-portuguese affair with help from capitalist Free armies and minimal input from America (and none from the Soviets).

I'm actually going to say this, it is probably best to just excise everything stated about the cold war so far from your memory and list it as "up in the air". The OTL Cold war's layout was hugely determined by the progress of the second world war and in my opinion; focusing on it is folly. I actually had a large post explaining my reasonings but honestly I'm just going to say "wait for more world war two updates." Because the picture of the course and the specifics of the war is an evolving thing.

If you don't like updates about strategy, tactics, equipment and war stories and want more about cold war politicking then well, it's right in the title. The third thread is about world war two. It is all about the tanks and the factories cranking them out. It is about the propaganda and the infantrymen in the trenches. It's not about dickwaving proxy wars and spy games. That's an entirely different part of history and I think people's obsession with the cold war has affected the update pace for the worse and has produced an unnecessary amount of confusion.

Also on the note of world war two; I've actually looked to get talent in for making a Reds mod for hearts of iron: darkest hour. It'll probably never quite reach Kaiserreich's popularity but I've been spending a lot of my vacation in Indonesia reading up about HoI coding.
 
It's kind of nonsensical. Spain is far more likely to be in one camp or the other, probably the capitalist one given how close they are and the fact the Commintern liberating Spain probably means them liberating France. Which breaks the plot.

I like this healthy debate. It means that we are truly co-writers of Reds!. It means a lot to me that Jello and IP might be encouraging this continued discussion of the timeline.

But huh? :confused: I think not.

I guess we are forgetting the fact that the Comintern and the FBU are allies around this time and the ideological differences are to be sidelined for a time being. I can sense the UASR policy makers agreeing for the loss of the Philippines if it means keeping a communist base near the center of world capitalism. The FBU, which is semi-socialist during this time, might be fine with this if it means getting back a rich resource base in the Third World like the Philippines, which through the Americans, is almost assured of going to a communist route. But the Philippines is Anglo-Japanese before the war.

I think it means that the UASR in the alt-Yalta like conferences agreed for the FBU's request of allowing a restoration of the Quezon government in Manila in exchange of inclusion of the Left and the Huks in the Quezon government, which I think Quezon might be suppressing thanks to an alternate Sakdalista uprising in the 1930s. And the Philippine Communist Party might be a banned organization. But its legalization is something that the UASR might ask. The FBU can simply say, knowing that it can take back what it said later on. Quezon, being a simple puppet, has no say about this. Since Americans are doing most of the liberation in the Philippines and with the Portuguese and FBU doing most of the liberation in mostly communist Spain, the UASR can agree to FBU's requests in exchange of the restoration of the armistice lines while the FBU can do anything to northern fascist Spain. This is the way I sense why Jello and IP came up with that arrangement before. Jello, after all, discussed the rough storyline between the end of the war and the Cold War and it included this exchange. It might be outdated, I give you all that. And this is also because of the fact that the Portuguese and the FBU need to work with the Spanish guerilla movement which is largely communist anyway to liberate Spain from fascism.

And the Spanish Republic can't be restored into a liberal democracy by the Brits. The alt-Spanish Civil War turned the Republic into a socialist state. They do might establish a Third Spanish Republic in the North though composed of puppet anti-communist and anti-Falangist liberals and conservatives.

The Spain-Philippines exchange looks like a bad deal at first glance, but I do think not, especially given how large the Comintern has become and the UASR is not exactly isolated in terms of having a resource base. I think this is the reason why IP and Jello also arranged that the UASR has a more pro-FBU Party Right lead coalition in power during the war because the more ideological Party Left and Ultra-Left might not agree to such a deal of losing any gained ground. I also see the influence of the more right-wing movements and the bureaucracy in this.

I don't understand the Cold War military centered thinking behind the problem of a postwar communist Spain when the deals are most likely being made during the 1940-1945 period. While I do think that the FBU planners are already looking into the gains and threats of the postwar world and communism is going to be the postwar problem, I don't think that they feel alarmingly threatened of a nearby communist Spain. It's a threat, yes, but it's a useful threat and losing more of the Global South is a bigger threat. This is capitalism needing markets to continue working.

And I am speaking of this as a radleft Filipino that wants the Philippines to go Red in this timeline. But I understand where the lead authors might be coming from in this.

But I agree that I think let's forget about the Cold War stuff for a while.
We need the 1933-1942 period to be solidly complete before we can truly discuss the postwar arrangements stuff.
 
I agree Cold War is off the table is the best idea. We don't know much about WW2 at all, and I think talking about other things is the best idea.
 
Like honestly, forget the cold war for a while, that's stuff we're not even going to get to for a very long time, potentially even years given how little we've advanced into WWII since the third thread began in 2013. This is about the war, and simple logistical military realities dictate that the Iberian peninsular campaign is almost certainly going to be an Anglo-portuguese affair with help from capitalist Free armies and minimal input from America (and none from the Soviets).

I'm actually going to say this, it is probably best to just excise everything stated about the cold war so far from your memory and list it as "up in the air". The OTL Cold war's layout was hugely determined by the progress of the second world war and in my opinion; focusing on it is folly. I actually had a large post explaining my reasonings but honestly I'm just going to say "wait for more world war two updates." Because the picture of the course and the specifics of the war is an evolving thing.

If you don't like updates about strategy, tactics, equipment and war stories and want more about cold war politicking then well, it's right in the title. The third thread is about world war two. It is all about the tanks and the factories cranking them out. It is about the propaganda and the infantrymen in the trenches. It's not about dickwaving proxy wars and spy games. That's an entirely different part of history and I think people's obsession with the cold war has affected the update pace for the worse and has produced an unnecessary amount of confusion.

Also on the note of world war two; I've actually looked to get talent in for making a Reds mod for hearts of iron: darkest hour. It'll probably never quite reach Kaiserreich's popularity but I've been spending a lot of my vacation in Indonesia reading up about HoI coding.

Yeah, that sounds fair enough. I think the slow pace of updates has caused people to stray from the main topic.

By the way, I always thought this thread was more about pop culture, modern society or modern day political speculation, as to sort phase out that discussion in the main thread and focus on the more important issues in the time period. Anyone else think that?
 
Well the thing about WW2 is that we (me and jello) so far don't even have a general course laid out so much as we have some events we think should happen and the rest just happens as we progress through the flow. So world war two is going to be very much a thing that matures organically rather than follows a script as it were. Which I suppose for a conflict as fluid and large scale as world war two is probably the best course of action and would likely produce the most realistic flow for the conflict.
 
I was thinking about doing a piece on the political parties of the Greater Indian Commonwealth. Would that violate the rule about not focusing on the Cold War, or does it count as a modern day thing? I could also do another Dianetics piece.
 
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I was thinking about doing a piece on the political parties of the Greater Indian Commonwealth. Would that violate the rule about not focusing on the Cold War, or does it count as a modern day thing? I could also do another Dianetics piece.
I suppose you could, just as long as you don't talk too much about the overall international geopolitical situation besides givens like India usurping western Europe as Capital's heart (and Brazil just being a third wheel as ever).
 
I suppose you could, just as long as you don't talk too much about the overall international geopolitical situation besides givens like India usurping western Europe as Capital's heart (and Brazil just being a third wheel as ever).

Alright, I'll try. You did a fine introduction earlier, so I'll skip to the political parties.:



Indian National Congress

Originally the main purveyors of the independence movement, after dominionization, the Indian National Congress soon became more concerned with more autonomy within the AFS Commonwealth, joining the People's Alliance to ensure that Indian interests are properly represented. At first, it was one of the more left-leaning of the PA cadet parties, even going through conflict with the main PA. However, after the '79 Crisis, the party underwent a rightward shift. The left dwindled, as they were expelled from the party, and a new influx of members belonging to the RSS and other Hindu nationalist parties replaced them. These new members adopted a hardline anti-Communist, pro-capitalist stance, ensuring India remained firmly in the Capitalist sphere. Their policies helped transform India into the beating heart of the capitalist sphere, surpassing even Western Europe and the main Franco-British Union. However, even in this new capitalist leader, there are systemic problems of poverty, corruption, persistence of the caste system, environmental degradation, and ethnic nationalism, which threatens to shake the INC rule, and destroy capitalism's last hope. Despite ramblings that capitalism in India is on the decline, reformists hope to solve the systemic problems of India, while maintaining its status as the rising leader of capital.

The current leader of the party, and the Prime Minister of the Greater Indian Commonwealth, is Narendra Modi, the latest in a line of RSS members in charge of the party. Despite his heavy anti-Communist stance, he has expressed his desire for reforming the system in order for India to survive in a modern world.

All-India Muslim League

Founded in 1906, the All-India Muslim League is the main political party for the Muslim minority. After spending the 1930's advocating a separate Muslim state in Muslim majority areas, negotiations between Congress head B.R. Ambedkar and party head Muhammad Ali Jinnah eventually forced the League to abandon this notion. They instead returned to their roots as a Muslim advocacy group, going into coalition with the INC to ensure that the Commonwealth recognize Muslim interests and rights. However, with the rise of the RSS as a major faction in the INC, there was growing anti-Islamic rhetoric in the Congress Party, forcing the League has since cut off its alliance, and became a major regional force in its own right. While still being pro-capitalist, it advocates more for Muslim nationalism and autonomy, which does lend itself to an anti-Communist stance, which precludes the possibility of the League joining with the Socialists and Communists in their reformist agenda. While the reactionary portion of the party has begun to return to Sir Muhammad's Iqbal's idea of a separate Islamic state, the mainstream realize that remaining part of India is in their best interest, primarily because the proposed state would be split between two sides of the country. Support largely centers around Muslim majority areas, such as the Northwest regions (Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan) and the Bengali states.

The current party head is Newaz Sharif of Punjab.

Indian Socialist Congress

Founded by dissident factions of the Indian National Congress after the founding of the Commonwealth, the Socialist Congress has taken up the mantle of full-on independence from the FBU and the AFS, albeit through legal, not revolutionary, means. It follows the Nehru style Fabian Socialist model in this respect. Through several common goals with the INC, they had managed to hold some influence in the country, helped by its moderate stance. However, this ended after 1979, when socialist politicians were arrested and/or persecuted, forcing them from office in many cases. This struck a blow to the party. However, it was able to recover, once again because it had largely absorbed the left of the Congress Party. In recent years, the Socialists have begun to advocate a reformist agenda, which includes moderate socialism, Dalit rights, and environmentalism. They are against the aggressive stance that India has taken against communism in the Indian Ocean. These stances, along with a calculated media image, became popular with a new generation of people, who are tired of capitalism, and want India to move away from dying ideologies.

The current head of the Party is Rahul Gandhi, great-grandson of Jawaharal Nehru, one of the founders of the Indian Socialist Congress.

The Worker's Communist Party of India

Originally simply "The Communist Party of India", it was founded in 1920. Originally following Marxist-Leninism, the party was significantly changed by the joining of radical Bhagat Singh in 1947, who brought the party more to a Marxist-Deleonist and Trotskyist model. The name change was meant to reflect the "Worker's Communist Party of America." They joined Comintern as a party, and became part of the pro-American faction of the alliance. It was one of the only Communist parties to remain relatively above ground in the AFS during the entirety of the Cold War, despite it adopting militant tactics at times during its history. Even during the Emergency period, they avoided an outright ban, though it was heavily persecuted during that time. After the anti-communist hysteria died down, The Communist Party moderated some of its militancy, and following their colleagues in ESCI, formed a leftist coalition with the Socialist Congress to enact a reformist agenda, sharing common goals, including the elimination of the caste system and environmentalism. Together, they hope to create a socialist state in India slowly and peacefully. Historically, it has been successful in the South, particularly in Kerala.

The current leader of the Worker's Communist Party is Sitram Yechury, a former student organizer, and later major party member. The party is considered far-left, according to Communist International

The Communist Party of India (Zapatismo)

Formed from a split in the Worker's Communist Party in 1964, it was initially a very small faction, advocating Zapatismo, peasant led revolution. However, after the moderation of the main Communist party, support had grown for this faction. It is the dissident from the "Left Consensus", desiring to advocate change more forcefully. While not resorting to outright terrorism and (very carefully) avoid outright advocating the overthrow of the government , they often organize armed strikes in rural communities, causing friction with the government. Besides this, they also organize schools and literacy programs in these communities, teaching them the tenants of communism and the evils of the caste system. This party has become very popular on college campuses, where their symbol is often plastered on walls, despite the attempts of school officials. They also protest militarism, and openly support various Communist movements in the Indian Ocean. It is not a member of Comintern, and is against both American and Soviet communism.

The current head is Muppalla Lakshmana Rao, a former radical.
 
A Science of the Mind-Finale

Excerpt from AH.Com Chat discussion "Going Clear documentary"
TotalBrit said:
So, for those of you in the metropole, a new documentary came out on ITV about the Church of Dianetics. It's called "Going Clear," based on a term in the religion for completely getting rid of your "thetans". I admit, I only knew this religion as those sods who keep bothering you on the Metro about E-Readers, or whatever. However, this legitimately stunned me! The abuse that happens within it, the money laundering, the fact that criticism is so systematically punished. I mean, I can't comprehend half of this. And even the people who lived inside the Church have trouble comprehending the whole ordeal within the church. Anyone else has seen this. What do they think?
RuledBritannia said:
I liked it. I have read extensively on the abuses and frauds of the Church of Dianetics beforehand, and I'm glad that this highlighted some of those. While we tend to mock things like Xenu or LRH's Rhodesian adventure, we tend to forget the real crimes they've committed. Like trying to smear the reputation of critics, having members infiltrate various governments to steal documents, and especially the treatment of their members. There is a real cultish element to the whole affair. Once, silly stuff like the billion year contract is sidetracked by the fact that Sea Org members are punished and sent to harsh labor conditions on a regular basis. It's like living in Marxist dictatorship, only it's happening in the free world. And, the Church keeps lavishing goods on the various celebrities inside the organization in order for them to keep promoting it, and how these celebrities keep silent on these matters. I liked how the documentary emphasized how the capitalist governments (Most communist countries have outlawed, one of the only things I'll give them credit for) gave up their attempts to persecute the cult, because they had thoroughly infilitrated and exhausted them. I do highly recommend it to those who don't know much about the Church.

AVeryTrueDemocrat said:
I think Dianetics is outlawed here, so I'm unaware of what you mean by "Xenu" or "Rhodesian adventure."

RuledBritannia said:
Oh, you're going to love this.

When you reach a certain level (OT III) of clearing out all the little thetans, you learn their creation myth. Apparently, 75 million years ago, there was a Galactic Confederation, which resembled the (rightful) United States circa 1920, which was in relatively peace until economic collapse caused the rise of a "Red Robot Army," which sweeped the elections, and directly stated they intended to abolish democracy.
In order to save democracy in the galaxy, a general named Xenu and his troops took it upon themselves to take over the Confederation, and outlaw the Red Robots. However, this only sparked a civil war, which ultimately forced Xenu and his forces out, in part due to the treachery of the so-called "Loyal Officers", a cabal of robot sympathizing military generals. Xenu fled to the planet Tenugeek, which was eventually beseiged by Robot forces, who punished Xenu's followers by freezing them, dumping them into volcanoes and blowing them up with hydrogen bombs. The souls of these beings, called Thetans, were then recaptured, and brainwashed to accept ideas like psychiatry and socialism. Deprived of all personality, they roamed the Earth, until they found new bodies in the form of ancient man. It turns out that man's problems are all caused by random thetans fighting for control. The good Mr.Xenu is locked up on Mars at the moment, but they hope that he returns to vanquish socialism and the Robots.

AVeryTrueDemocrat said:
People.... actually believe this stuff? This absurd science fantasy crap? They think that this really happened...?

SkaelingKing said:
Like RB said, it was only available to hight level members. If you asked them about it, they say the story is apocrypha, that it shouldn't be taken seriously. I don't think any of the celebrities who follow Scientology and Dianetics really take it seriously.
You asked about Rhodesia. Well, in 1966,before the military takeover, LRH visited the country briefly, and tried to begin a slow takeover, but failed, when they learned of his tax evasion charges in Cuba. After the 1978 military takeover, Hubbard saw another opportunity, and the Church began to donate to the military dictatorship. They accepted these funds, because General Smith thought Hubbard was merely an eccentric, wacky millionaire type, not a psychotic religious leader. They meet in 1980, and after Hubbard explained Dianetics, General Smith was stunned to learn of its true nature , but allowed some missions to open up, possibly as a way of controlling the black population and dissenters, and to keep Dianetics fundinf. Hell, despite them saying they stopped donations during the 80's, it's rumored they are still funding Rhodesia, and that Scientology offices are still open there.
 
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I don't think the Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa of TTL are gonna last past their OTL dates of falling. J_B had an update on FBU and other Entente/AFS parties which clearly stated that South Africa eventually left the capitalist orbit. But otherwise, I like this update of yours.
Rhodesia remains capitalist and I imagine that some of the less...savory elements in South Africa might take the transvaal region (and perhaps more territory that they can run away with) and secede to join Rhodesia rather than be part of black communism.
 
Rhodesia remains capitalist and I imagine that some of the less...savory elements in South Africa might take the transvaal region (and perhaps more territory that they can run away with) and secede to join Rhodesia rather than be part of black communism.

There was a big discussion about it, a few pages back.
 
I know, I was part of it.

I know, I was pointing Elric to a place with more details.

By the way, part of the "Hubbard in Rhodesia" story actually did happen OTL. In 1966, he came to Rhodesia, and thought (in his typical ego) that he would be elected its leader to solve its problems. However, he was kicked out, according to one source, because "his checks bounced."
 
Hey I'm wondering something, how do you do the quoted trick in the threads? I'm really curious on how you do it so that I can try that trick myself.
 
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