Red Spies in the White House: An Alternate Cold War
- Thread starter Ulysses Orbis
- Start date
The ''Persian'' question will certainly be a major thing later on.
Stalin not only brought back the Russian empire's land fully intact but expanded however this will create new and interesting issues, almost the entire Persian world is in the soviet union, the number of Persian and central Asian (plenty of Persians as well) would make them one of the largest but also most important groups in the USSR for their port.
Iran is also for lack of a better word a competing center of gravity for the USSR, as it's oil and mineral wealth, population, agriculture potential and port ect will certainly be in tension with the traditional one. Not saying I expect civil war but more for party members from this region to clash with other elites in the European members but also try and get influence on Persia's back yard the caucuses, central Asia ect.
Another potential thing I could see happening is the refuge's including elites and army from Iran fleeing into Iraq try to become one of the biggest powerbrokers in the country and most die hard against the USSR, plus regard Iraq as a once province of Persia.
Afghanistan as well suffer the same issue but to be honest I feel Afghanistan might join Pakistan in this timeline, logic is simple with the USSR now in control of Iran the 'great game'' is dead, Afghanistan is no longer a buffer state and can rely on anyone to protect them, indeed they are at a risk of the soviets simply absorbing them to control all the shared ethnic groups it into itself to properly police them, plus Herat was apart of Persia historically.
It's better for Afghanistan's monarchy to throw itself behind Jinnah's dream, have the Afghan army and such integrated and such and join a much larger state with British protection with privilege's and as the representative of the Pashtuns now much larger part of the country wield lots of softpower.
Stalin not only brought back the Russian empire's land fully intact but expanded however this will create new and interesting issues, almost the entire Persian world is in the soviet union, the number of Persian and central Asian (plenty of Persians as well) would make them one of the largest but also most important groups in the USSR for their port.
Iran is also for lack of a better word a competing center of gravity for the USSR, as it's oil and mineral wealth, population, agriculture potential and port ect will certainly be in tension with the traditional one. Not saying I expect civil war but more for party members from this region to clash with other elites in the European members but also try and get influence on Persia's back yard the caucuses, central Asia ect.
Another potential thing I could see happening is the refuge's including elites and army from Iran fleeing into Iraq try to become one of the biggest powerbrokers in the country and most die hard against the USSR, plus regard Iraq as a once province of Persia.
Afghanistan as well suffer the same issue but to be honest I feel Afghanistan might join Pakistan in this timeline, logic is simple with the USSR now in control of Iran the 'great game'' is dead, Afghanistan is no longer a buffer state and can rely on anyone to protect them, indeed they are at a risk of the soviets simply absorbing them to control all the shared ethnic groups it into itself to properly police them, plus Herat was apart of Persia historically.
It's better for Afghanistan's monarchy to throw itself behind Jinnah's dream, have the Afghan army and such integrated and such and join a much larger state with British protection with privilege's and as the representative of the Pashtuns now much larger part of the country wield lots of softpower.
If Afghanistan and Pakistan are unified, would Jinnah have the common sense to make use of the monarchy's life experience in governing?
Now that will be the question, in a way the opportunity can do so much, avoid any issue of afghan nationalism spreading over the border, increase the size and legitimacy of west Pakistan over east and give a already somewhat prepared army with supplies which given the issues of partition is not something you can really ignore is attractive to worth a steep price.
At the same time a lot of the men in the Indian army spent plenty of their time shooting and police actions against the frontier of Afghanistan and the elite of Muslim league movement won't be happy to share and grant the old afghan royalty seats because well unlike them they never lost their power to the British.
Still I think Jinnah would it despite all the issues Pakistan's birth here is not going to in a good situation, the USSR is literally across the border of Baluchistan and would make it priority to make the gulf their lake, the threat of communism and in a odd way the USSR threat to Turkey (Khilafat Movement in support of the ottoman empire ) will force them to see it's needed for a strong united front even if they dislike it.
Still at least Pakistan here should have plenty of supporters later on with Arab nations, UK and commonwealth for while trying to prop them up against the soviet union as well likely Turkey and US once they go full ultra right.
Last edited:
Could we avoid Khan's quasi-Peron turn as an amateur Franco and make Islamabad the model Muslim democracy?
I just discovered and binge read this entire timeline @Ulysses Orbis and it is pretty awesome! What are the odds that I discovered TWO epic timelines I've never seen before on this site in one day (I just discovered Something Serious Has Happened on Air Force One featuring a John McCormack presidency in the 1960s)?
Whatever happened to the plot point regarding J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson's private detective agency (I found that quite entertaining)?
And UN Secretary-General Alger Hiss is cursed. I remember in For All Time Hiss became President Henry Wallace's nominee for Secretary of State until the revelations of his Soviet sympathies came out during his confirmation hearings. Fun fact: Secretary of State Cordell Hull considered resigning his post a year early in For All Time which would've allowed for Hiss to be confirmed as his successor. If say Operation Long Jump had indeed existed and succeeded, killing FDR, Churchill, and Stalin at the Tehran Conference in November 1943 then the US could've ended up with a Red in the White House during WWII. Either Operation Long Jump occurs or there's that time when FDR almost died on his way to the Tehran Conference when a US ship accidentally fired a torpedo at his boat (which could've killed Wallace and led to a President Alger Hiss in the FAT universe).
I do like some of President White's decisions being pro-women's rights and pro-Civil Rights though I do fear for the United States being completely under the thumb of the Soviet Union. I wonder how the 1948 presidential election will go? Also I absolutely love the French Fourth Republic's new Constitution! Very based!
Whatever happened to the plot point regarding J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson's private detective agency (I found that quite entertaining)?
And UN Secretary-General Alger Hiss is cursed. I remember in For All Time Hiss became President Henry Wallace's nominee for Secretary of State until the revelations of his Soviet sympathies came out during his confirmation hearings. Fun fact: Secretary of State Cordell Hull considered resigning his post a year early in For All Time which would've allowed for Hiss to be confirmed as his successor. If say Operation Long Jump had indeed existed and succeeded, killing FDR, Churchill, and Stalin at the Tehran Conference in November 1943 then the US could've ended up with a Red in the White House during WWII. Either Operation Long Jump occurs or there's that time when FDR almost died on his way to the Tehran Conference when a US ship accidentally fired a torpedo at his boat (which could've killed Wallace and led to a President Alger Hiss in the FAT universe).
I do like some of President White's decisions being pro-women's rights and pro-Civil Rights though I do fear for the United States being completely under the thumb of the Soviet Union. I wonder how the 1948 presidential election will go? Also I absolutely love the French Fourth Republic's new Constitution! Very based!
A lot of us are betting that the US will be turning itself into a pseudo-Fascist state after the spies are unmasked and the extreme radical version of the Red scare takes holds of what is left of the Western world. It is really unfortunate that President White is a jew himself so Nazi propaganda about the Jews and Bolshevik world takeover will bizarrely be "proven" correct leading to a worldwide resurgence and vindication of Nazism. This is not helped that the ATL Israel is likely to be an ally of the USSR...
Oh and those great pro-womens and civil rights reforms alongside the other progressive policies of this administration is going to be demonised as "Communism" by the next administration and be immediately rolled back and repressed, yes literally everything and Everyone that gets touched by President White will be poisoned and destroyed by the successors of the White Administration...
Um as for potential candidates in the 1948 election we have a very obvious one that has been highly critical of President Whites denazification politics, alongside the Morgenthau plan and extremely critical of the lenient forgein policy decisions with the USSR. This man goes by the name of George S Patton, he survived the crash and has resigned from the US Army since going against Presidential orders and is instead now an outspoken public figure that has so far been denounced as being sympathetic to the Nazi's for his controversial comments... the tables are going to turn extremely hard when the Red Scare begins.
Last edited:
It's a very unfortunate truth. 😞
I guess Patton would run as a Republican due to his far-right views ITTL (and OTL?)? In America's Silver Era he won election to the presidency in 1948 as a Democrat with Paul V. McNutt as his running mate and made a one term promise like James K. Polk and Rutherford B. Hayes IOTL did though that was after over 50 years of butterflies. In Ruins of an American Party System (later Ruins Revisited: the Robert Taft Story) Patton was recruited by LBJ and the remnant of the late Huey Long's Commonwealth Party (alternate Union Party), the People's Coalition, to run for President as an Independent with Estes Kefauver as his running mate.
Last edited:
marathag
Banned
Posting from well behind on this TL,
He may not crash his XF-11 reconnaissance plane in 1946, that I believe was responsible for his slow motion destruction of his sanity.
I think you meant Korea (but yes Kim will definitely not be leader for life and the food security will never be an issue).
Well he was at least vindicated with his opinions on the Russians. But yeah everything else would have likely lead to his downfall in popularity eventually as the times move on and the reputation was lost.
The irony is He was not anti black. "The Negros have demonstrated, unparalleled courage, behaving far more creditably than officers of other backgrounds." Action report to General Marshall Italian Campaign 1943
marathag
Banned
A number of other Sov RBMK reactors had close calls, like one in Leningrad.
It was not _if_ a RBMK would pop, but when.
And by the route of this TL is taking, GOP is going to team him up with Joseph Mccarthy, Who along with newly returned Hoover is totally going to launch American version of great purge, leftist politicians, civil right activists and union leaders would be persecuted or even be lynched.
Oh and for extra horrror, new deal liberalism is dead and burry for good once White's action leak out. And Dixiecrat would take over what's left of DNC or start their own party. Either way by 70-80s you would see earlier, more militaristic version of Neoconservatism adopted by Republican VS Dixiecrat party that is reactionary and Evangelical.
What do you mean? He compared them to savages, barbarians, and racist stereotypes just over a decade before they launched the first ever artificial satellite into orbit on purpose and play a game of nuclear chicken with half the world.
He was 100% all in for America, and nothing else. He particularly hated Asians and Eastern Europeans but I don't think he really hated Middle Easterners or Africans.