Protect and Survive: A Timeline

[Sir Chaos]

Jan, your claims are not at all far-fetched, but I think, though a pope in life could be materially useful to the faithful, a Pope martyr transmit to the faithful an appropriate example of the willingness to sacrifice for a man who is the vicar of Christ on earth for his Catholics.

Still, I would not look like a fundamentalist, or anything like that, I just say that John Paul II seemed to me a man quite aware of his mission and capable to perform an act so significant even at the expense of his personal safety.

After all, as we say in Italy, "Morto un Papa, se ne fa sempre un altro".

What does that mean? "If a pope dies, there will always be another one"?

 

[Bernard Woolley]

Mario,
I must admit that I probably looking at this subject from the perspective of a Scots Presbyterian, which means I probably don't understand it.
I doubt anyone in the Church of Scotland would think that it was a good idea for the Moderator to remain at GZ waiting for the bombs to arrive.

If the Pope does die then I'd worry about the succession and a possible schism. After all we don't want to end up with another multiple Popes situation.

 

[Mario Rossi]

What does that mean? "If a pope dies, there will always be another one"?

Let's say yes, this expression wants to express that while the Pope too is destined to leave this earth, anyway, there will be a successor to ensure continuity of the institution. Sometimes this phrase is also used to defuse a loss after all replaceable.

 

[Mario Rossi]

Mario,
I must admit that I probably looking at this subject from the perspective of a Scots Presbyterian, which means I probably don't understand it.
I doubt anyone in the Church of Scotland would think that it was a good idea for the Moderator to remain at GZ waiting for the bombs to arrive.

If the Pope does die then I'd worry about the succession and a possible schism. After all we don't want to end up with another multiple Popes situation.

I understand your point of view, I think that is normal and human that, in front of a couple of nuclear warheads direct to your city, the wisest thing to do is movin' as quickly as possible elsewhere.

In my previous post I was just trying, as a moderate Catholic, to imagine the dynamics that might have led the Pope to make a choice that, while in harmony with his personality (IMHO), otherwise would seem incomprehensible.

For the succession, unless there is malice in the will of the various cardinals survived in the world, I believe that provisions such as those envisaged by Sir Chaos, should avoid schisms or multiple elections.

 

[Macragge1]

Checking my War Plan UK the RPC at the time was Chief Constable S. E. Bailey. Hopefully he'll have relocated from Ponteland before the attack. The Regional Military Commander would have been Brigadier Spreckling (or his successor) at Ouston.

If he had a revolver can I request that it's a Webbley Mk.VI in .455 please? That and the L9A1 are my two favourite classic handguns.

I've seen both 28 Days Later and the sequel. They're both good films. Really remind me of the various versions of The Day of the Triffids and there is a bit of the book The Death of Grass in there too.

EDIT:


The trailer for Battle: Los Angeles?

Aye sure - it's a sufficiently nasty looking revolver and so it fits.

I've never read Death of Grass - copies seem fairly elusive - is it worth pursuing?

Also, points to you.

I wonder if they are working to the ratio the Japanese did in Burma, "one fourteenth of an elephant"?


Wouldn't it more appropriate to be the .38 version since that would have been the major version produced during the war?

Actually, how are the police managing to find replacements post-attack because there numbers would be depleted by attrition? Is there any recruitment system or is it pretty much ad-hoc? I wonder if they considered something akin to the structure of that used by the USC which was disbanded in 1970, such the A,B and C Specials?

This, and what Jan said - given the alternatives, I wouldn't be surprised if the Police and Army ended up with a surplus of volunteers.

 

[Stateless]

While we're (somewhat) on the subject of religion, during the Cold War the Soviets believed for a considerable amount of time that as the Church of England was the state religion in the UK, the General Synod would (of course) be privy to nuclear secrets, and spent some time trying to get access to infiltrate it. MI6 were only too happy to encourage such activity.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

Death of Grass is well worth getting hold of. I got a new edition from Amazon.
Avoid the film version, the author hated it.

Thanks for putting in the Webbley Mk.VI (I'd love a deactivated one, though they are very expensive). I don't know if I was being that clever with the song, youtube had a link to the film trailer.

Working for the authorities in some capacity is in the short to medium term the best way to survive, IMVHO.

 

[Macragge1]

Vaguely off-piste; as I was looking round about The Death of Grass I found this piece of artwork; which a) I really, really like (is it like, the '50s Penguin style) and b) would fit well as a sort of cover for Protect and Survive as well

 

[Bernard Woolley]

Not quite the cover for P&S that the government would pick, I'd think.
The RAF's bomber fleet does get to see some action in the book. Guess against what targets?

 

[Macragge1]

Not quite the cover for P&S that the government would pick, I'd think.
The RAF's bomber fleet does get to see some action in the book. Guess against what targets?

Please don't say they try to solve the problem of starvation by somewhat rapidly depopulating urban areas - even by this timeline's standards that's a bold move.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

Okay, I won't say it then.
The British government eventually collapses after a coup attempt and some of them fetch up in America. The ending is fairly shocking too.

Youd absolutely hated the film adaptation (No Blade of Grass). It says in the introduction to my edition that he can't watch more than a couple of minutes of it.
The film also has one of the most irritating songs over the opening credits I've ever heard.

 

[Weaver]

John Christopher made a speciality of apocalyptic novels like the Death of Grass. His two others were "A Wrinkle in the Skin"...global massive Earthquake wrecks civilisation, and "The World in Winter".....sudden onset of Ice Age.

All written in the sixties.

 

[NCW]

If there is the time and money during the period leading up to the war, perhaps parts of the church bureaucracy, the archives, the artwork etc would also be moved to safe places - if perhaps only as far as Castel Gandolfo and other rural locations.

Actually, that would be one plausible way of removing the Swiss Guard out of the Vatican. After all, those artifacts would need to be escourted.

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Mario Rossi]

Actually, that would be one plausible way of removing the Swiss Guard out of the Vatican. After all, those artifacts would need to be escourted.

Cheers,
Nigel.

If I did not know how disorganized and absurdly fatalistic may be the Italian, I would think that an operation similar to the British would have been put up on our part. You could not move the Tower of Pisa, the Basilica of San Marco in Venice or the Sistine Chapel in Rome, but at least we would have saved a David by Michelangelo or a Caravaggio. But none of this would have never happened, conosco i miei polli.

 

[Stanegate]

OK, hopefully I'm still co-ordinating messages through the North East from the Royal Observer corps bunker in Durham. No fear Hexhan would have hears of the goings on in Newcastle, it would be me telling them ! That is as long as Durham city has been spared.

Apart from the two Tyneside bombs, what others are on ROC 23 groups tote ?

142970

 

[Stanegate]

Oops, sorry for the typos in the last post.

A further query from this new member, Why use St James Park for a burial site when there is Leazes park, with lots of tennis courts and open space beside it and the "Town Moor", the vast open space in the centre of Newcastle, only a few hundred yards away ?

142970

 

[Lemon flavoured]

Oops, sorry for the typos in the last post.

A further query from this new member, Why use St James Park for a burial site when there is Leazes park, with lots of tennis courts and open space beside it and the "Town Moor", the vast open space in the centre of Newcastle, only a few hundred yards away ?

142970

Presumably for fallout related reasons.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

John Christopher made a speciality of apocalyptic novels like the Death of Grass. His two others were "A Wrinkle in the Skin"...global massive Earthquake wrecks civilisation, and "The World in Winter".....sudden onset of Ice Age.

All written in the sixties.

I remember seeing him interviewed on a BBC documentary on British science fiction. He admitted that destroying things in his novels was a guilty pleasure, something I can really identify with.
It seems that for some reason British sci-fi authors are particularly obsessed with apocalypse. There is a consistent thread running from things like The Purple Cloud up to more recent works like Down to a Sunless Sea and this story for that matter.

I do wonder why we Brits are especially fond of blowing up the world, or destroying civilisation.

 

[Lemon flavoured]

I remember seeing him interviewed on a BBC documentary on British science fiction. He admitted that destroying things in his novels was a guilty pleasure, something I can really identify with.
It seems that for some reason British sci-fi authors are particularly obsessed with apocalypse. There is a consistent thread running from things like The Purple Cloud up to more recent works like Down to a Sunless Sea and this story for that matter.

I do wonder why we Brits are especially fond of blowing up the world, or destroying civilisation.

I think British media generally tends to be more pessimistic than US media. My brother, who's a Media Production graduate, could probably talk for hours as to why, but he lives in Cardiff and works a night shift, so I can't ask him now lol.

 

[Bernard Woolley]

The last episode of the series Sci-Fi UK did indeed suggest that there was some sort of cultural thing in our obsession for 'End of the World' scenarios. It contrasted our sci-fi, things like Quatermass, A for Andromeda and even Doctor Who, with US Sci-fi which was generally upbeat and optimistic.
It seems Americans believed the future would be a utopia while we believed heavily in a dystopian future. At least we won't be disappointed if the future is fantastic.

Blowing stuff up is really fun, though. I love doing it, it's a really good way to relieve stress. After being subjected to delays and cancelations I was tempted to have a Soviet cruise missile hit ScotRail H.Q.