Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

The first one is what the Soviets would probably have gone with, hell it even borders the outskirts of Berlin.
On the contrary, Stalin was quite hostile towards the idea of Lusatian independence or autonomy, even ordering the main Lusatian national leader who advocated for indepedence or autonomy to be imprisoned, which he was for around 20 years, I think
 
I imagine that if Stalin were not hostile to Lusatian autonomy (if still hostile to Lusatian independence), then the formation of a "Lusatia Autonomous Region" might have some interesting knock-on effects later on after Stalin has left the scene.
 
I imagine that if Stalin were not hostile to Lusatian autonomy (if still hostile to Lusatian independence), then the formation of a "Lusatia Autonomous Region" might have some interesting knock-on effects later on after Stalin has left the scene.
It would be very interesting. I actually don't quite know why he disliked the idea so much to begin with, possibly because he wanted to make sure the East German population supported the communist regime. But an autonomous area was formed in Romania under the communist regime for the Szeklers, for instance, so it certainly wouldn't be impossible.
 
It would be very interesting. I actually don't quite know why he disliked the idea so much to begin with, possibly because he wanted to make sure the East German population supported the communist regime. But an autonomous area was formed in Romania under the communist regime for the Szeklers, for instance, so it certainly wouldn't be impossible.
I actually had the Magyar autonomous region in mind as a model.
 
Looking at the ethnic map in that series of maps of Lusatia, is it possible that the idea of Sorbian autonomy might be more palatable to the East German and Soviet governments if two separate Sorbian autonomies were made, in Upper and Lower Lusatia, respectively, with a corridor of German land between them? That way only the municipalities with the largest percentages of Sorbs are included in these autonomous areas
 
Looking at the ethnic map in that series of maps of Lusatia, is it possible that the idea of Sorbian autonomy might be more palatable to the East German and Soviet governments if two separate Sorbian autonomies were made, in Upper and Lower Lusatia, respectively, with a corridor of German land between them? That way only the municipalities with the largest percentages of Sorbs are included in these autonomous areas
Yeah, the area around Cottbus had been Prussian for a century longer than the rest of Upper and Lower Lusatia, so that would make sense...
 
I drew two Lusatian autonomous regions, Upper Lusatia in the south with its capital in Bautzen, and Lower Lusatia in the north with its capital in Cottbus. Each of these would be separate autonomous regions, with Upper and Lower Sorbian being the official languages, respectively, alongside German. Sorbian cultural institutions and schools would be funded and endorsed by the East German Government in each, as well.
 
During the Pacific War, in 1880, Peru and Bolivia considered forming a federation between them, but this never happened due to the war, as the governing Juntas in both countries suggested a plebiscite, which ended up not being held due to the war. I've made a map about said proposal and all it's Federal States:
1602458124951.png
 
I drew two Lusatian autonomous regions, Upper Lusatia in the south with its capital in Bautzen, and Lower Lusatia in the north with its capital in Cottbus. Each of these would be separate autonomous regions, with Upper and Lower Sorbian being the official languages, respectively, alongside German. Sorbian cultural institutions and schools would be funded and endorsed by the East German Government in each, as well.

Hmmm....not bad, but in keeping with socialist tradition at the time, whilst the corridor between them makes sense, having them so small so as to include almost all the territory with 50% of the population being Sorbian or more is just no on! The bits to the east bordering Poland (and Czechoslovakia) that have more Germans would likely be included too, inasmuch to ensure I think that you have local Germans within the autonomous areas and thus being part of the politics of the autonomous areas (makes it much easier to justify local Germans being in the local party and governing apparatus of the autonomous areas, even if local Sorbs are the main faces).
 
I drew two Lusatian autonomous regions, Upper Lusatia in the south with its capital in Bautzen, and Lower Lusatia in the north with its capital in Cottbus. Each of these would be separate autonomous regions, with Upper and Lower Sorbian being the official languages, respectively, alongside German. Sorbian cultural institutions and schools would be funded and endorsed by the East German Government in each, as well.

Hmmm....not bad, but in keeping with socialist tradition at the time, whilst the corridor between them makes sense, having them so small so as to include almost all the territory with 50% of the population being Sorbian or more is just no on! The bits to the east bordering Poland (and Czechoslovakia) that have more Germans would likely be included too, inasmuch to ensure I think that you have local Germans within the autonomous areas and thus being part of the politics of the autonomous areas (makes it much easier to justify local Germans being in the local party and governing apparatus of the autonomous areas, even if local Sorbs are the main faces).

So I was thinking something like this when superimposed on the GDR's district system (using the GDR's district map from wikipedia and the Lusatia maps featured as well as using your boundary system but somewhat modified):

1602651879174.png




Since these Lusatian autonomous regions might well have been formed before the reorganization of the GDR's administrative divisions (away from Lander and towards districts), it occurred to me that the Lander border between the old GDR Lander of Saxony and Brandenburg would likely have been used as the northern boundary of Upper Lusatia. If the Lusatian autonomous regions were carried over into the district system of the 1950s then their boundaries would likely remain and the districts would be organized as in OTL but with these Lusatian borders taken into account. However Cottbus District would not be as in OTL since Cottbus would now be the capital of a Lower Lusatia Autonomous Region. Here what was OTL's Cottbus District becomes Finsterwalde District (after the second largest town in the OTL district in the 1950s).

Here is what they would look like superimposed on the original 1940s-1950s Lander of the GDR and the reconstituted Lander of the 1990s (again using a wikipedia map as the base):

1602651892533.png



and on the modern day map of Germany with its Lander and districts, where if they survived they might have been offered the prospect of becoming Lander themselves:

1602651907032.png
 
Well, then, if you're going to include nearly completely ethnically German border areas with Czechoslovakia and Poland, why make a corridor to separate Spremberg from Lusatia, or even separate the two Lusatias at all?
 
Well, then, if you're going to include nearly completely ethnically German border areas with Czechoslovakia and Poland, why make a corridor to separate Spremberg from Lusatia, or even separate the two Lusatias at all?
That's certainly a possibility that there would be no corridor to separate them and that there might not be separate Lusatias at all, but as with North and South Ossetia and Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh and as happened in Yugoslavia, Romania and China (where Tibetans, Mongols, Koreans and a bunch of other titular autonomous ethnicities are divided across a number of autonomous territories and shared their territories with Han Chinese and other groups and were sometimes only a plurality rather than majority even in their "own" autonomous territory), it was not unusual that titular autonomous groups often shared their autonomous areas with other ethnic groups and that titular autonomous groups were sometimes split between two or more autonomous regions.

In the case of East Germany I can't see any Lusatian autonomous regions being formed across Lander borders before the 1950s. So if Stalin supported it, it would likely be a Lower Lusatia autonomous district formed within the Land Brandenburg Land and an Upper Lusatia autonomous district formed within the Land Saxony (much as how you had a North Ossetian autonomous oblast in the RSFSR and a corresponding South Ossetian autonomous oblast in the Georgian SSR/Trancasucasian SFSR). Whether they would be unified with any reorganization after the 1950s is anyone's guess (though the fact that there is an Upper Sorbian language and a Lower Sorbian language might help to give inertia to keeping the two autonomous regions separate even if they border each other). However, I would imagine that a Stalin that was okay with Lusatian autonomy might also wish to have the Lusatian autonomous regions actually border Czechoslovakia and Poland and thereby act as a kind of insurance incase East Germany was being lost in a revolt (the two regions could be pried off and added to Poland/Czechoslovakia or form regions from which the Soviet Army might find generally a more loyal base of support from which to prosecute operations to put down any revolts in Germany). At the same time if say in Upper Lusatia, the Sorbs formed maybe 60% of the population it would mean that the authorities in East Germany would be more confident about being able to have ethnic Germans in key leadership positions within the autonomous region simply because ethnic Germans formed 40% of the population and thus a Central Committee of the Upper Lusatian Communist Party being equally split between Sorbs and Germans won't seem like clear minority rule (insofar as the East German communists would be concerned about the appearances of minority autonomy and participation in the communist party system).
 
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Here's an M-Bam for those Sorbian Autonomous Zones that developed to become German States I made
View attachment 590668
Nice, I would love to see what TunguskaStorm's map would look like on that M-Bam.

Though I wonder gents, if after that we should take any further images into a different thread? Would these still count? As they are our conjectures rather than the actual proposal.
 
Ethiopian border claims in Sudan in the crisis period between the defeat of the Mahdists at Omdurman (1898) and the final Anglo-Ethiopian border arbitration (1902):
9119FE6B-2533-4CC2-84EF-BEF212D6EA57.jpeg
 
Do we have any knowledge on how Napoleon intended to partition Russia?
First I've heard of it. AFAIK the invasion was just to force Russia back into the Continental System. Maybe if Napoleon won he would've had Russia cede some Polish territories to the Grand Duchy of Warsaw, but that's just conjecture on my part based on Napoleon's framing of it as the "Second Polish War." Maybe he would've had Russia give Bessarabia back to Moldavia? I don't know.

This does remind me, though, that Zamoyski's Rites of Peace says something to the effect that after the War of the Fourth Coalition Napoleon considered completely dismantling Prussia, but unfortunately that's not elaborated on.
 
First I've heard of it. AFAIK the invasion was just to force Russia back into the Continental System. Maybe if Napoleon won he would've had Russia cede some Polish territories to the Grand Duchy of Warsaw, but that's just conjecture on my part based on Napoleon's framing of it as the "Second Polish War." Maybe he would've had Russia give Bessarabia back to Moldavia? I don't know.

This does remind me, though, that Zamoyski's Rites of Peace says something to the effect that after the War of the Fourth Coalition Napoleon considered completely dismantling Prussia, but unfortunately that's not elaborated on.
Nap did, briefly, create a Provisional Government for Lithuania out of a few western Guberniyas, and it was attached to the GD of Warsaw for a short period of time, but fell apart on his retreat...
 
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