Projection - A Pink Floyd(?) Timeline

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by ChargedSpaceStation, Jan 12, 2018.

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  1. danmartin73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    If Barrett, Wright, Ayers and Bowie still die ITTL on the same days as OTL, yes that would be a perfect way to close off Projection's career. But if the members will live for longer ITTL, I think that this would be a great way to celebrate their 50th anniversary as a band, whilst also looking to the future.
     
  2. ChargedSpaceStation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    The only one who I'm considering to live for longer is Syd, since he's focused on his family (and eventually without getting diabetes and et cetera)...
     
  3. ChargedSpaceStation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    1973/74: Stooges Again, Unions

    The Raw Power

    Iggy and The Stooges entered at the Wessex Sound Studios, advised by David Bowie. They wanted to produce their second album after the comeback with I Got a Right!. Locked inside of the studios as the same time as Bowie and Kevin Ayers were, the group finished the recordings in less than one month (almost at the same time as Bowie & Ayers), and started a short tour in the United Kingdom. When Ayers and Bowie had finished their recordings, both groups decided to tour, with The Stooges plus Mick Ronson supporting the duo, and Iggy Pop as guest vocals in the prelude, When Your Parents Go to Sleep. The tour ended in December.

    1974

    davidgilmourdavidbowie.png
    David Gilmour and David Bowie during "Projection's" The Union Tour, 1974.
    Here we are, 1974, and finally, the members of Projection were absolutely famous in the entire world, but not so much by their albums, but by their parallel works outside Projection. While Pink Floyd Sound was enjoying their royalties of the successful Dark Side of the Moon, Bowie & Ayers were still promoting their masterpiece on the United States. Besides of it, we had Robert Wyatt, recovering from his eventual accident. "After that accident I became an antithesis on the group. I retired from the drums, despite I played it sometimes though. So I became a bit more interested and focused on piano, as Rick [Wright] was.", recalls Wyatt. In 1974 also saw the increasing political interest of Robert Wyatt on left-wing ideologies, a thorn in Bowie's side during the times he introduced the Thin White Duke.

    In the same year, both supergroup reunited on the possibility of a worldwide tour. And indeed was! Both groups were going to perform their albums, and Bowie & Ayers would be accompanied by partially The Echoes Crew (w/Mike Oldfield and John Marshall), former Caravan's keyboardist, Dave Sinclair, and bassist Archie Legget. Karl Jenkins declined the invitation to tour, and resolved to start a solo career, this way, departing from his old band.

    The Union Tour
    Promoting: Dark Side of the Moon & Ziggy Stardust
    Groups: Pink Floyd Sound, Bowie & Ayers, and Projection (w/John Marshall)
    Dates: February-May 1974 (US); November-December 1974 (UK/Europe)

    Pink Floyd Sound's setlist and encore

    1.
    "Speak to Me/Breathe (In the Air)" (Nick Mason/Roger Waters, David Gilmour)
    2. "Travel's Interlude" (Waters, Gilmour, Richard Wright, Mason)
    3. "Time" (Waters, Gilmour, Wright, Mason)
    4. "Home Again" (Waters, Gilmour)
    5. "The Great Gig in the Sky" (Wright)
    6. "Money" (Waters, Gilmour)
    7. "Us and Them" (Waters, Wright)
    8. "Any Colour You Like" (Gilmour, Wright, Mason)
    9. "The Dark Side of the Moon" (Waters)
    a. "One of These Days" (Waters, Gilmour, Wright, Mason)
    b. "Cymbaline" (Waters, Gilmour)
    c. "Fat Old Sun" (Gilmour)

    Bowie & Ayers' setlist
    1. "When Your Parents Go to Sleep" (Kevin Ayers)
    2. "Five Years" (David Bowie)
    3. "Soul Love" (Bowie)
    4. "Hymn" (Ayers)
    5. "Moonage Daydream" (Bowie)
    6. "Take Me to Haiti" (Ayers)
    7. "Starman" (Bowie)
    8. "Beware of the Dog" (Ayers)
    9. "Velvet Goldmine" (Bowie)
    10. "Interview" (Ayers)
    11. "Lady Stardust" (Bowie)
    12. "Don't Let it Get You Down" (Ayers)
    13. "Star" (Bowie)
    14. "Hang Onto Yourself" (Bowie)
    15. "Shouting in a Bucket Blues" (Ayers)
    16. "Ziggy Stardust" (Bowie)
    17. "Decadence" (Ayers)
    18. "Suffragette City" (Bowie)
    19. "Rock'n'Roll Suicide" (Bowie)

    Projection's encore
    1. "Space Oddity" (Bowie)
    2a. "Childhood's End" (Gilmour) (replaced by Wish You Were Here in the American leg, promoting their future album)
    2b. "Wish You Were Here" (Waters, Gilmour)
    3. "Life on Mars" (Bowie)
    4a. "The Return of the Son on Nothing" (Wright, Bowie, Ayers, Wyatt, Gilmour, Waters) (replaced by Shine on You Crazy Diamond in the American leg, promoting their future album)
    4b. "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" (Wright, Bowie, Gilmour, Waters)
    a. "The Sea Song" (Wyatt) (performed by Robert Wyatt at the Royal Albert Hall in 28-30 November 1974)
    b. "I'm a Believer" (Neil Diamond) (performed by Robert Wyatt at the Royal Albert Hall in 28-30 November 1974)


    Blue Skies from Pain

    [​IMG]
    Robert Wyatt and Nick Mason during the performance of I'm a Believer at the Top of the Pops, 1974.
    During the tour, two new songs were presented. They were proposed to be part of the new ambitious project by Pink Floyd Sound, with the working name of Shine On (You Crazy Diamond). Anyway, but the interest of David Bowie and Kevin Ayers about the new concept aroused, wanting to reunite Projection to write some songs to the new concept conceived by Roger. "I remembered about Syd's situation of reclusion, and then suddenly came all the things that happened to him to become like that. I was glad that he was okay at the moment, but sometimes I wanted him to talk back to us.", clarifies Roger Waters.

    During the American leg, the Projection's encore would have been replaced with the two new songs, the experimental Shine On You Crazy Diamond, and the acoustic Wish You Were Here. In November 1974, at the Royal Albert Hall, instead of the normal encore with Space Oddity and Life on Mars, Robert Wyatt made his historic return singing his new song with a delighted audience, The Sea Song, and a Monkees' cover of I'm a Believer, with Nick Mason on drums. "Nick helped me a lot with that return, and I wanted to him to play the drums as a retribution.", Wyatt. At the time of recovering, Wyatt was also producing his debut solo album, Rock Bottom.

    The drug issues

    In the same year, during the tour mainly, some members were introduced to drugs by Bowie. With the exception of Robert Wyatt, Roger Waters and Nick Mason, all the other members other members became addicted to cocaine and/or heroin. "I remember some moments of this tour because it was a bit traumatic to me. Uh, Roger and Nick stood with the joint, so I could talk to them normally, since they've refused completely Bowie's offerings.", Robert Wyatt. Besides of being not able to perform due to his condition in the entire year, Wyatt toured with the entire group, and during the show, being backstage. "That tour was the same time that my relation with Kevin started to decline. Those times with Bowie were very dark, mainly to me.", completes Wyatt.

    The Velvet reunion... (?)

    Abruptly, Lou Reed and John Cale wanted to reform their old band, The Velvet Underground. Calling up all members, only Sterling Morrison appeared, but Maureen Tucker somehow refused. Reed called up Pentti Glan to assume the drum roles. After the end of the first leg of the tour, Richard Wright appeared, and his friendship with John Cale ended up making him take over the keyboards. "Rick was a nice guy, and without any compromise after that tour with Pink Floyd Sound, Bowie and Ayers, after that concert with Nico, Kevin [Ayers] and [Brian] Eno, I asked if he wanted to collaborate in the album and he said, 'Oh, okay'".

    Hiring Bob Ezrin, the reformed group started to record at the Abbey Road studios, but due to Reed's uncomfortable times at London, they've relocated to New York. So the band started to record at the Electric Lady studios. As it was affecting Projection, the drug issues were also affecting the newly-reformed Velvet Underground. "There wasn't good times. Cale and I used heavily the cocaine, Reed had his problems with alcohol...", recalls Rick Wright.

    The Velvet Underground had finished their album in two months. Richard Wright took some vacations in Greece, as always, Kevin Ayers released his solo album, The Confessions of Dr. Dream and Other Stories, a hit in the United Kingdom and Europe, Bowie recorded Diamond Dogs, Nick Mason and Roger Waters dedicated their times on produce other people albums, such as The Stooges' Head On, while David Gilmour was interested on his future wife, Ginger Hasenbein.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
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  4. ChargedSpaceStation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    RAW POWER

    Raw Power is the fourth studio album by the American rock band, The Stooges (Iggy and The Stooges). The album was released in 7 November 1973 by the Harvest Records, and produced by Projection's member, David Bowie with Iggy Pop.

    Departing of a most psychedelic sound of the last album (with Richard Wright's keyboards), Iggy Pop and The Stooges were advised by Bowie to record with he and Ayers at the Wessex Sound Studios. As the previous album, Raw Power was composed by new songs performed in sets of their tours. The band recorded the album in less than one month, allowing them to perform with David Bowie and Kevin Ayers, promoting both albums at the time (Raw Power and Ziggy Stardust). Iggy Pop and The Stooges also backed Bowie and Ayers during the Ziggy Stardust set, with Iggy making the guest vocals in When Your Parents Go to Sleep.

    The album was commercially successful, and as the previous album, became a cult-following. The album reached in the #56 position at the Billboard 200 and in #12 at the UK Albums Chart. Nirvana's frontman, Kurt Cobain, claims that Raw Power is his all-time favourite album. Search and Destroy and Shake Appeal were released as singles, the first one peaking at #5 at Billboard Hot 100 Mainstream Rock songs.

    [​IMG]
    IGGY AND THE STOOGES - RAW POWER (1973)
    Genre: Proto-punk, hard rock
    Total: 42:41
    Produced by: David Bowie, Iggy Pop
    All tracks written by Iggy Pop and James Williamson.

    Side A - 21:41
    1.
    "Search and Destroy" - 3:29
    2. "Gimme Danger" - 3:33
    3. "Scene of the Crime" - 2:55
    4. "Hard to Beat" - 4:54
    5. "I'm Sick of You" - 6:50

    Side B - 21:00
    6.
    "Raw Power" - 4:16
    7. "I Need Somebody" - 4:53
    8. "Gimme Some Skin" - 2:40
    9. "Shake Appeal" - 3:04
    10. "Death Trip" - 6:07
    Personnel
    The Stooges
    Iggy Pop -
    lead vocals, producer
    James Williamson - lead guitar
    Ron Asheton - bass guitar, backing vocals
    Scott Asheton - drums

    Additional Personnel
    David Bowie - producer, mixing
    Kevin Ayers - additional bass guitar
     
  5. flippikat A lot goes a little way.

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Location:
    New Zealand
    It's the balancing act.. you want to have some great stuff come out of this timeline, but I'm thinking theres gonna be a downside sometime.

    At various times in the 1970s-80s many of the musicians in this story could've easily become a casualty to the rock'n'roll lifestyle. It's sheer good fortune they all survived to the 2000s.
     
  6. flippikat A lot goes a little way.

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Yikes! With Lou drinking heavily & John/Rick into cocaine, it's gonna be rocky.

    Tough when a band is all on substances, especially tough when the members are on different substances to each other.
     
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  7. Loulou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Any updates?
     
  8. danmartin73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Bump?
     
  9. danmartin73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Is this TL dead?
     
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  10. RedBeetle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Allo?
     
  11. MatthewFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Location:
    Portsmouth, England
    ?
     
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  12. MatthewFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Location:
    Portsmouth, England
    R.I.P
     
  13. danmartin73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    That's what I thought too at first, but I discovered something big about 2 weeks ago. For the past couple of months, he has been working on another timeline. I found out that on the website "Alt History Wiki" he has made a brand new timeline which he is still working on. It is made by "ChargedSpaceStation" but under the username "Massacote.01". Basically to sum it up, the timeline is called "Jet-Propelled Soft Machine" and provides an entire discography from 1967 to 2007 answering the question - What would the Soft Machine sound like if Kevin Ayers and Robert Wyatt didn't leave the group? It is a very interesting concept that I believe he has explored marvellously. Over the years, other people join and leave the group (including Richard Wright, Ollie Halsall and Karl Jenkins), but Kevin and Robert remain the consistent members. Link is down below, tell me what you think of it!

    http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Jet-Propelled_Soft_Machine
     
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  14. MatthewFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Location:
    Portsmouth, England
    Very good. Hopefully aiming to see more of his work there if he ain't gonna finish this TL, like I presume to be.
     
  15. ChargedSpaceStation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Ah, I'm very sorry people to keep you waiting (and wow, you all find my other althistory, lol)

    But I'm not so content anymore with the Projection's timeline.
    Although, I have the band's albums made, if you want to me to release them, I could do it to y'all
     
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  16. danmartin73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    That would be great! Just the track listings and album covers you have made would be wonderful! What are you thinking of doing next?
     
  17. MatthewFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Location:
    Portsmouth, England
    That would be great. I had loved this up to when you paused, and I liked your Soft Machine TL on the wiki too, so I'm very much interested in seeing what you had and have in sure.
     
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  18. Threadmarks: Wish You Were Here

    ChargedSpaceStation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    WISH YOU WERE HERE

    Wish You Were Here is the eighth studio album by the British band, Projection. It was released in 14 June 1975 by the Harvest Records in the United Kingdom and by Columbia Records in the United States and Worldwide. It was produced by Roger Waters, Nick Mason and Projection. Wish You Were Here is the first album of the group after the hiatus of the accident involving Robert Wyatt. The cover was made by Hipgnosis.

    The album's main concept was conceived on memories with the former member Syd Barrett, which was passing through psychological treatments during the sessions. The main concept also involves problems of the music world such as drugs, money and fame. It was recorded in the United Kingdom (at the Abbey Road Studios) and in the United States (at the Record Plant, NY). The sessions of the record also included the participation of John Lennon in the supporting vocals of David Bowie's songs and was the first one with Carlos Alomar, who would be a long-time partner with Bowie in next albums.

    Originally conceived as a double album, Wish You Were Here marked the start of another turbulent times between the members, particularly with vocalist David Bowie and drummer Robert Wyatt. Bowie's new alter ego, Thin White Duke, was very controversial on fascist statements at the time, things which implied with Wyatt, who was agreeing with left-wing views, mainly on joining the Communist Party of Britain a few times later. The high consumption of drugs during the sessions, with a significant amount of recorded material, and the exhaustive tours forced the band to split the album in two.

    The double album was redone as a single album with other songs being discarded to an eventual next album. Columbia Records announced the album as Wish You Were Here fervently, with mass advertising. Have a Cigar was released as their single with Welcome to the Machine on B-side, and later, Fame was released with Right as B-side. Wish You Were Here was received with mixed reviews by the critics and well-received by fans, despite the disappointment with the non-inclusion of Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Although, the album managed to top the UK Album Charts and Billboard 200.

    Although the great success the album had, Wish You Were Here was the start of troubling times to Projection (which would end just during the Berlin sessions). The style of the group changed to a Progressive rock mixed up with Funk and Soul influences particularly on Bowie's music, directly different of Life on Mars? with Glam and Psychedelic influences. David Gilmour opined that the final product sounded great but inconsistent after all. Richard Wright and Robert Wyatt avoided to talk about it generally, and Kevin Ayers and David Bowie are inclined to like the album.

    [​IMG]
    PROJECTION - WISH YOU WERE HERE (June/1975)
    Genre: Progressive rock, art rock, R&B, soul, experimental
    Total: 53:45
    Produced by: Projection, Roger Waters & Nick Mason
    UK Album Charts: #1
    Billboard 200: #1

    Side A - 26:23
    1.
    "Four Notes" (Richard Wright, David Gilmour) - 4:48*
    2. "Win" (David Bowie) - 4:42
    3. "Welcome to the Machine" (Gilmour, Roger Waters) - 7:32
    4. "The Sea Song" (Robert Wyatt) - 6:31
    5. "Oh, Wot a Dream!" (Kevin Ayers) - 2:50

    Side B - 27:22
    6.
    "Fascination" (Bowie) - 5:45
    7. "Have a Cigar" (Waters, Gilmour, Bowie, Roy Harper) - 5:24
    8. "Fame" (Bowie, Carlos Alomar, John Lennon) - 4:16
    9. "Wish You Were Here" (Waters, Gilmour) - 5:40
    10. "The Farewell March" (Wright, Gilmour) - 6:17*
    Personnel
    Projection
    David Bowie - lead vocals [2, 6, 8-9], backing vocals, acoustic guitar, keyboards
    David Gilmour - lead vocals [3, 9], backing vocals, lead guitar, lap steel guitar, EMS Synthi AKS, tape effects, additional bass
    Kevin Ayers - lead vocals [5], backing vocals, electric guitar, bass guitar
    Richard Wright - vocals [4], backing vocals, Hammond C-3 organ, ARP String Ensemble V, Minimoog, Steinway piano, EMS VCS 3, Hohner Clavinet D6, Wurlitzer EP-200 electric piano
    Robert Wyatt - lead vocals, backing vocals, drums, percussion, piano

    Additional personnel
    Roy Harper - lead vocals [7]
    Carlos Alomar - electric guitar
    John Lennon - electric guitar, backing vocals [8]
    Mike Garson - piano
    David Sanborn - saxophone
    Pablo Rosario - percussion
    Dick Parry - saxophone
    Brian Humphries - engineering
    Nick Mason - producer
    Roger Waters - producer
     
  19. Loulou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    I bet Gilmour felt a bit iffy on Bowie's songs
     
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  20. Threadmarks: Shine On You Crazy Diamond

    ChargedSpaceStation Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    SHINE ON YOU CRAZY DIAMOND

    Shine On You Crazy Diamond is the ninth studio album by the British band, Projection. It was released in 08 September 1976 by the Harvest Records in the United Kingdom and Europe and by Columbia Records in the United States and the rest of the World. The album was produced by Roger Waters, Nick Mason, and Tony Visconti. It was made with the rest of the songs which did not enter the previous album, and is the last album before the Berlin Trilogy. As Wish You Were Here, the cover was made by Hipgnosis.

    Still in turbulent times, most of the recording sessions to record and mix Shine On happened without at least one member. Robert Wyatt and Richard Wright recorded in The Manor Studio while Gilmour recorded with Roger Waters and Nick Mason at the new inaugurated studio, Britannia Row Studios. Bowie and Ayers recorded at the Cherokee Studios in Los Angeles. The band reunited a few times in the studio, to record Subterraneans, a new song by David Bowie and Robert Wyatt, and Shine On You Crazy Diamond. In June, Brian Eno and Richard Wright mediates a conversation of Wyatt and Bowie to appease the feelings. Since the Thin White Duke became a polemical figure related to neo-fascist ideologies, Bowie and Wyatt reached an agreement, and then, both wrote a song together.

    Projection ended up delaying Wish You Were Here's sequel for more than a year. In August, the group released the lead and only single, Help Me, written by Kevin Ayers, B-sided by a cover of Falling In Love Again, in a duet by Kevin Ayers and David Bowie. Shine On You Crazy Diamond peaked in number 4 in UK Album Charts while peaked in number 3 in Billboard 200, making it their worst perform since Son of Nothing. The exhaustion caused by the tensions on the tour, the sessions, and influenced by drugs, made Bowie realize that the band needed a retirement from the life they were having. Suggested by him, and endorsed by Wyatt, the group moved to West Berlin, starting the period of the Berlin Trilogy.

    David Bowie and Kevin Ayers still likes the album. Robert Wyatt says it is quite better than the previous one, and chooses Subterraneans as his favourite song. David Gilmour liked the way that he produced the album at the same time with Roger, Nick, and The Echoes Crew producing the meteoric Prog-punk album, Animals. Richard Wright expressed his contentment with the album commenting that Little Red Robin Hood Hit the Road is magnificent.

    projectionshineon.png
    PROJECTION - SHINE ON YOU CRAZY DIAMOND (September/1976)
    Genre: Progressive rock, funk rock, space rock, soul, experimental
    Total: 53:37
    Produced by: Roger Waters & Nick Mason, Tony Visconti
    UK Album Charts: #4
    Billboard 200: #3

    Side A - 27:42
    1.
    "Station to Station" (David Bowie, Kevin Ayers, David Gilmour) - 10:11
    2. "Love's Gonna Turn You Round" (Ayers, Gilmour) - 4:52
    3. "Golden Years" (Bowie, Gilmour) - 4:00
    4. "Help Me" (Ayers) - 2:40
    5. "Word on a Wing" (Bowie) - 5:59

    Side B - 25:55
    6
    . "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" (Richard Wright, Bowie, Gilmour, Roger Waters, Brian Eno) - 11:00
    7. "Yes I Do" (Ayers) - 3:08
    8. "Little Red Robin Hood Hit the Road" (Wyatt, Wright) - 6:08
    9. "Subterraneans" (Bowie, Wright, Wyatt, Eno) - 5:39
    Personnel
    Projection
    David Bowie - lead vocals [1, 3, 5-6], backing vocals, acoustic guitar, keyboards
    Kevin Ayers - lead vocals [2, 4, 7], backing vocals, electric guitar, bass guitar
    David Gilmour - lead vocals [3, 6], backing vocals, lead guitar, lap steel guitar, EMS Synthi AKS, tape effects, additional bass
    Robert Wyatt - lead vocals [8-9], backing vocals, drums, percussion, piano
    Richard Wright - backing vocals, Hammond C-3 organ, ARP String Ensemble V, Minimoog, Steinway piano, EMS VCS 3, Hohner Clavinet D6, Wurlitzer EP-200 electric piano
    Additional personnel
    Carlos Alomar - guitar
    Tony Visconti - producer
    Roger Waters - bass guitar, backing vocals, bass guitar
    Nick Mason - producer
    Brian Humphries - engineering
     
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