Pop-culture in TL-191

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@oshron @Historyman 14 @Joshua Ben Ari




The adventures could be:
  • Indiana Jones and the Fountain of Youth
  • Indiana Jones and the City of Gold
  • Indiana Jones and the Treasure of Montezuma

I think something like the Philosopher's Stone can be a great Macguffin in a TL-191 Indy adventure too! Since it already was a story, perhaps it would be adapted to the big screen in TL-191?

And given in the 20s and 30s Japan pretty much dominates Asia, there be action over all from Mongolia and Korea down to Indochina and Indonesian. Or even the Silver Shirts come into conflict with the Japanese.

Alterwright, these are great! I think you make an good examples. I haven't even thought about the Mexican Emperor, and the Mexican Empire being such big bads for Indy, but it makes a lot of sense they would be the ones into the occult rather then the Southland. Maybe Maximilian III is so desperate and ruthless to keep power, but also sick and tired of Mexico being an Confederate puppet, and so seeks out these relics and Macguffins to make Mexico into an great power. Its not just selling them to London and Mexico (Which they would be busy doing their own thing in Europe and Africa and Asia.) but to regain the glory of Mexico.

When Francisco José II takes over, maybe he goes 'WTF' at what his father was done, and so he purge the Monarquicos and other occult figures within the Empire and hand over 'most' of the relics to the USA to get on they good side. Or the Mexicans, Freach, and British all get into an fight over an relic.

Maybe the Philosopher's stone was taken to the Caribbean to escape the Thirty Years' War, or some other fictional history to it being in the Caribbean/Central America.
 
monster-the-beast-from-20-000-fathoms-1953-BPJPTP.jpg
Theirs alot of statements about Godzilla not existing in TTL but I think Beast of 20,000 fathoms would take Godzilla's place.
 
If we are going down the path of Great Britain being the place where TL-191 Godzilla (Niseag) comes from, then may I suggest the use of some mythical monsters from that region? The resulting radiation from all that superbombing could have affected the creatures that supposedly live there among people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Scottish_mythology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_folklore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_mythology#Mythical_creatures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_folklore
 
Me and @Joshua Ben Ari talked about Mass Effect/TL-191 an bit from time to time.

Batarians would look more like the British while the Asari are seen as Valkyries (and heavily German influenced). Shepard will also probably be either Haitian or descended of Southern Negro survivors. (Massachusetts/Pennsylvania.)

ATL Nomrandy being named the Trenton. (After the small, but majorly important battle of the Revolution which respark the cause for the war for Independence.) Or Yorktown. (The battle that all, but won American freedom from the United Kingdom.)
 
View attachment 450578 Theirs alot of statements about Godzilla not existing in TTL but I think Beast of 20,000 fathoms would take Godzilla's place.

To be fair, those statements do have a fair point, but I would argue that Godzilla in this timeline would be created by another country, under another name. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be the same as the Godzilla we all know and love, but I don't think Godzilla would not show in this timeline at all. His creators just might be different.
 
@Alterwright, @Allochronian, @Joshua Ben Ari, I got an idea for more original TL-191 pop culture.

My idea is bascailly taken an note from Alterwright's Napoleon III post which mentions Confederates in the Freach Foreign Legion fighting in the Freaco-Prussian War, and later putting down the the Paris Commune. I can see an genre in the Southland of 'Brave Southern Boys and Gentleman oversea adventures'. The same would go to Confederate Cuba and Confederate Mexican States.
 
@Alterwright, @Allochronian, @Joshua Ben Ari, I got an idea for more original TL-191 pop culture.

My idea is bascailly taken an note from Alterwright's Napoleon III post which mentions Confederates in the Freach Foreign Legion fighting in the Freaco-Prussian War, and later putting down the the Paris Commune. I can see an genre in the Southland of 'Brave Southern Boys and Gentleman oversea adventures'. The same would go to Confederate Cuba and Confederate Mexican States.

!!!

Well, can you elaborate more? Do you mean to say that this would likely be a genre of Action/Adventure in the Confederacy's literature? If not written novels then a genre in Confederate pulp stories and perhaps even adventure comics and magazines?
 
!!!

Well, can you elaborate more? Do you mean to say that this would likely be a genre of Action/Adventure in the Confederacy's literature? If not written novels then a genre in Confederate pulp stories and perhaps even adventure comics and magazines?

Yes to both, novels, and pulp stories of the 'dashing Reb/Man from Dixieland traveling the world'. Or 'Southern Gothic in European Castles, or something like that.

Same for the Union having rugged frontiersman-style movies about Americans taming the New Wild West in the Northern Territories/Canada.
 
Yes to both, novels, and pulp stories of the 'dashing Reb/Man from Dixieland traveling the world'. Or 'Southern Gothic in European Castles, or something like that.

Same for the Union having rugged frontiersman-style movies about Americans taming the New Wild West in the Northern Territories/Canada.

In that case it would be at its most popular from 1900-1944 I imagine.
 
In that case it would be at its most popular from 1900-1944 I imagine.

I can see it taking it root among other things in the 1870s, taking off in the 1880s following the Second Mexican-American War. (Confederate Era of Good Feelings 1882-1914, or something like that.)
 
@Alterwright, @Allochronian, @Joshua Ben Ari, I got an idea for more original TL-191 pop culture.

My idea is bascailly taken an note from Alterwright's Napoleon III post which mentions Confederates in the Freach Foreign Legion fighting in the Freaco-Prussian War, and later putting down the the Paris Commune. I can see an genre in the Southland of 'Brave Southern Boys and Gentleman oversea adventures'. The same would go to Confederate Cuba and Confederate Mexican States.

Yes to both, novels, and pulp stories of the 'dashing Reb/Man from Dixieland traveling the world'. Or 'Southern Gothic in European Castles, or something like that.

Same for the Union having rugged frontiersman-style movies about Americans taming the New Wild West in the Northern Territories/Canada.

All of these are strong plausible outcomes of Confederate culture having an influence on the rest of the world. In fact, they could probably be good examples of pop culture that is unique to TL-191 and not have an easily discernible parallelism in real-life.

It would be nice if someone could create a story out of these ideas.
 
My idea is bascailly taken an note from Alterwright's Napoleon III post which mentions Confederates in the Freach Foreign Legion fighting in the Freaco-Prussian War, and later putting down the the Paris Commune. I can see an genre in the Southland of 'Brave Southern Boys and Gentleman oversea adventures'. The same would go to Confederate Cuba and Confederate Mexican States.
I can see it taking it root among other things in the 1870s, taking off in the 1880s following the Second Mexican-American War. (Confederate Era of Good Feelings 1882-1914, or something like that.)
Yes to both, novels, and pulp stories of the 'dashing Reb/Man from Dixieland traveling the world'. Or 'Southern Gothic in European Castles, or something like that.

@Historyman 14

Okay! Let me talk about this in greater detail, because I didn't give it much thought the first time around, nor did I make my thoughts very clear.

I am both surprised and thrilled at the idea of literature and media within TL-191 being based off this idea actually --- the idea of Confederates fighting abroad. When making the Napoleon III reputation post, the idea that some Confederates would find themselves abroad occurred to me when reading stories and histories about the French Foreign Legion and other foreign mercenaries that fought in China during the Taiping Rebellion. I never thought a genre of adventure fiction could be pulled from it, but I really like the idea!

This sub-genre of "Confederate Warriors Abroad" may not only extend to just the Foreign Legion, but to other regions of the world, such as China, Japan, and other places foreign advisors or fighters would be needed. I used the Foreign Legion as the most likely avenue for ex-CS soldiers to travel abroad since I believed that it would provide an interesting avenue for Confederate individuals to spread their likeness across the world post-independence, giving the average Frenchmen or Englishmen or German a feel for what a Confederate soldier or individual is like.

If this was to be made into a genre of adventure literature, then I think it would be a very interesting and enjoyable sub-genre, especially in the Confederacy's "Era of Good Feelings" from 1882-1914 as part of published books. This sub-genre would be very popular to many Confederates at this time as I think it would be a time where Confederates really trying to hammer home the fact they were a country unique from the US --- and so this genre would be used to show the prowess and pluck of the average Confederate fighting man. After the Great War I can see its popularity being in decline, but still enjoyed by readers in the Confederacy through the south's own brand of illustrated pulp-magazine stories and adventure comics, with themes of adventure, glory, revenge, redemption, and most especially honor.

In a sense, for example, we would get something like the story of "Beau Geste" by P.C. Wren if it has to do with the French Foreign Legion. I say "like Beau Geste", but in fact it would be an entirely unique story, with different twists and turns and reasons for the protagonist to join the French Foreign Legion.

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^^^ --- A "Confederate 'Beau Geste'" - instead of being written by an Englishman and a former British Army officer, perhaps a story like this within the Confederate action/adventure sub-genre can be written. The author would be a Confederate, possibly a veteran of the Great War or Second Mexican War, and have Confederate characters take part in an entirely different story, not necessary set in the deserts of Algeria, but perhaps in France fighting the Germans or in Indochina in the late 1880s as France invaded what it now Vietnam.
 
All of these are strong plausible outcomes of Confederate culture having an influence on the rest of the world. In fact, they could probably be good examples of pop culture that is unique to TL-191 and not have an easily discernible parallelism in real-life.

It would be nice if someone could create a story out of these ideas.

@Allochronian @Historyman 14 @Tiro

I agree. In fact we can go further. Certain books and literature in this timeline would be either butter-flied away or drastically changed, allowing for the creation of alternate version of the stories we are familiar with in our timeline or, most intriguingly, stories in literature that are entirely unique to this timeline. This includes certain novels that were written by foreigners outside of North America. What I'm saying is that we would get entirely new stories from authors in Victorian or Edwardian Britain for example, with either slightly different or entirely unique stories as a butterfly effect.

Think about it too. I'll narrow down the time period of Victorian Era as an example --- This would mean that the Second Mexican War (1881-1882) occurs during the Victorian Era. For a bit of historical context, the Zulu War (1879), the Mahdist War (1881-1899), and the Second Anglo-Afghan War (1878-1880) were conflicts in which the British Empire was engaged in during this time, either occurring just before, just after, or were concurrently happening along side this conflict. Seeing as how those wars played a part in shaping the empire, it seems reasonable to me that, in a cultural and social context, that British authors would write something about the Second Mexican War - especially at least a novel or a memoir or two. And given the scale of the war itself, its hard not to forget.

I actually have two stories in mind that could be drastically changed up because of the differences in this timeline, possibly becoming entirely new stories --- The Battle of Dorking written by George Chesney in 1871 and The Four Feathers written by A.E.W. Mason in 1902 --- this includes its many movie adaptions that would be changed. I want to address those two stories in later posts, so keep an eye out for them if I ever get to them!

For "The Four Feathers" --- My hunch is this - instead of the story taking place in Sudan during the Mahdist War, it can potentially take place in Eastern Montana, during the Second Mexican War around the time of the Battle of Teton River in 1881, either before it or after it occurred. While I can't give you the exact details of a story, I can provide potential visual references with notes. It would be an adventure story of course, in an entirely different setting with new characters and challenges --- the deserts of the Sudan, after all, are much different than the Great Plains of North America and the enemies are very different as well. The perspective would be from the British side this time of course, so we would get a very different look at the war through the mind of a British writer.

dhm1244.jpg


^^^ --- Alternate "Four Feathers" scene --- British lancers charge forward past a square of British infantry as they attack US Cavalry and infantry. The scene is of a battle in Eastern Montana in 1881.

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^^^ --- Alternate "Four Feathers" --- US Cavalry in Eastern Montana charge a British square, sabers forward, led by Custer. US soldiers would come face to face with the British for the first time in generations. And like the Zulus before them and the Mahdists after them, they would know the devastating effect of British volleys.

Screen Shot 2019-04-08 at 12.41.43 AM.png


^^^ --- Alternate "Four Feathers" --- British position is overwhelmed by US forces in Eastern Montana, 1881.

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^^^ --- Alternate "Four Feathers" --- US cavalry scouting out a position in Eastern Montana in 1881, keeping watch over British movements in the territory.
 
@Alterwright, these are amazing!

I will say I think I made the CSA 'Era of Good Feelings' an little longer, but given the beating it gave the North, and it suffer few defeats, it would last an long time, as well as in Canada.

For Confederate 'Beau Geste'", you mention Vietnam and I think of the Tonkin Campaign/Sino-French War, which comes off right the heels of the Second Mexican War. (Also Mandingo Wars, so Confederates fighting in Africa...) Your also right about Southerns fighting elsewhere.

The Four Feathers, I also found interesting it being set Montana. (Remember, the British got decimated by Custer when they try to attack head on and for the rest of the war in Montana was the British cavalry and US Fifth Cavalry patrolled the border.)

The Boxer Rebellion I think would be the 'goldmine' of Confederate Warriors Abroad. Post Great War One would be the chaotic state of China.

South America
for one.

Something else would be the Confederate own Indian Wars. (The Comanche Wars, and later the Apaches. Remember they killed Jeb Stuart, and Geronimo lean his own rebellion against the Confederacy over the Confederate's Hispanic population. He hated Mexicans before he even fought Americans.)
 
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